Holes in the trinity

[Muffled]

I see the trinity as an excuse. There are three gods to serve. If one god is not being served as he should, the excuse is, I'm busy with the other god....(troll thought)

I beleive there is a verse about that blaspheme is forgiveable excepot against the Holy Spirit. So one can ignore Jesus and me (people ofte do) but one can't ignore the Spirit of God. However that begs the question of whether ignoring Jesus and me is the ame as ignoring the Spirit of God which are present in us.

 

[savagewind]

The same God but different bodies.

I believe the will of all three is exactly the same. If body means will, I believe it. If bodies mean persons, I don't believe it. They all share the same WILL. They do not all share the same MIND. I believe YHVH possesses a mind, but not a body. I do not know what it means when people say God has a body. God IS a MIND imo. Mind is spirit. Thought comes from a physical brain but who can prove a brain is necessary? The Holy Spirit does not have a body. Yehoshua is the only one who had a body. I believe it is in his power to make a physical body for himself as creation is shared by The Father and The Son. But he would do so ONLY at the order of YHVH. My thoughts on it. I cannot take a mighty stand for the truth because I am not The Holy Spirit, but You knew that. Haha

 

[Muffled]

The Holy God Almighty Creator is the source of power. God does not dwell in time like the creation does. God does not need power to be sustained. That is ONE GOD. Jesus is a man dwelling in time and needs to be sustained by power like any other man. Two separate BEINGS. One out of time. One in time. TWO.

I believe that God told me that He dwells in all of time as well as outside of time. Past present and future are all present to Him.

 

[savagewind]

I believe that God told me that He dwells in all of time as well as outside of time. Past present and future are all present to Him.

Yes. I have heard the same thing.

 

[Brandon Brossett]

The bible says "God was matifested in the flesh", Jesus said "if you seen me you seen the father", Isaiah 9:6 says "unto a child is born a son is given and his name shall be called .........., The mighty God, The everlasting Father. What is the greatest commandment " Hear O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord" not a Tri god but one God. Jehovah said " I am alpha omega first and last", Jesus says same thing in Revelation. To top it off Jehovah said He would not share glory and Jesus said "All power is given unto me in Heaven and Earth" where does that leave the Father

 

[Muffled]

I believe the will of all three is exactly the same. If body means will, I believe it. If bodies mean persons, I don't believe it. They all share the same WILL. They do not all share the same MIND. I believe YHVH possesses a mind, but not a body. I do not know what it means when people say God has a body. God IS a MIND imo. Mind is spirit. Thought comes from a physical brain but who can prove a brain is necessary? The Holy Spirit does not have a body. Yehoshua is the only one who had a body. I believe it is in his power to make a physical body for himself as creation is shared by The Father and The Son. But he would do so ONLY at the order of YHVH. My thoughts on it. I cannot take a mighty stand for the truth because I am not The Holy Spirit, but You knew that. Haha

I believe this would appear to be a truism.

I am not sure what you are saying here but I believe the mind is a part of the a body and has a will of its own.

What is yoor basis of belief?

I am not sure what you are saying here but if you are saying that each person has a different mind I would agree but if by mind you mean the intelligence of the spirit i beleive they do share that.

I believe that aposessing a body is not a common thing in the OT for YHVH but that He does it.

I believe It is probably meant in the same way that I say I have a body. (This is a temporary possession)

I believe most people see mind as part of the body so I prefer intelligence.

I believe the Paraclete (Holy Spirit) has many bodies.

I know my own.

 

[savagewind]

I am with Thief. Spirit first. Can spirits think, according you? God is A Spirit. Can the spirit of God think? In the beginning the word was and the word was with God and The Word was [a] god. The Word = Thought. Can God not think?

 

[savagewind]

First Spirit YHVH then thought which YHVH gave birth to God's son. Is there something wrong with this?

Did Spirit come before Thought, after or at the same time?

What is the difference between spirit and thought?

 

[savagewind]

Does John 1:1 mean the beginning of everything or the beginning of the adventure of MAN? Man as in humankind.

 

[jtartar]

What has the holes isn't the Trinity, but rather your arguments here.

sojourner,
Have you ever noticed that all through the Bible simple terms that can be understood by anyone, are used?? This is called Anthropmorphism, or more simply Accommodation. This way is used because God wants us to be able to understand His words. If God did not use accommodation we could not know what God is talking about, because His thoughts are so much higher than ours, Isa 55:8,9. Since this is so, when God had written that Jesus is His son, this means the same as it does to us, God created His son, caused his life to begin, Prov 23:22, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, John 6:57.
If you believe the Bible,you cannot misunderstand what Jesus said at Matt 16:13-17.
Do you believe God, Himself?, Matt 3:17. That is God speaking, and it is in every Bible that I have seen.
What about the simple statement that no one has seen God at any time, 1John 4:12, John 1:18. In fact God,Himself, said that no one can see God and live, Ex 33:20. Many testified that they saw Jesus!! Even after he died and was resurrected. Be very careful, this could very well be a Cacodoxy!

 

[Muffled]

First Spirit YHVH then thought which YHVH gave birth to God's son. Is there something wrong with this?

Did Spirit come before Thought, after or at the same time?

What is the difference between spirit and thought?

I believe the Son does not come into being until c 1 AD so the idea that a physical person is there at the beginning is a false concept. Even John rrecognizes that the Word became flesh and that the Word is God.

Thought is an attribute of the Spirit. The Word is an attribute of the Spirit.

I believe that is like asking what the difference is between my thinking and what I type. The difference is that thinking proceeds from myself and the thought typed then has an existence of its own. This is where I believe Hindus are confused because they view the creation and creator as one.

 

[Muffled]

Does John 1:1 mean the beginning of everything or the beginning of the adventure of MAN? Man as in humankind.

I believe it is the beginning of everything which includes man.

 

[sojourner]

sojourner,
Have you ever noticed that all through the Bible simple terms that can be understood by anyone, are used?? This is called Anthropmorphism, or more simply Accommodation. This way is used because God wants us to be able to understand His words. If God did not use accommodation we could not know what God is talking about, because His thoughts are so much higher than ours, Isa 55:8,9. Since this is so, when God had written that Jesus is His son, this means the same as it does to us, God created His son, caused his life to begin, Prov 23:22, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, John 6:57.
If you believe the Bible,you cannot misunderstand what Jesus said at Matt 16:13-17.
Do you believe God, Himself?, Matt 3:17. That is God speaking, and it is in every Bible that I have seen.
What about the simple statement that no one has seen God at any time, 1John 4:12, John 1:18. In fact God,Himself, said that no one can see God and live, Ex 33:20. Many testified that they saw Jesus!! Even after he died and was resurrected. Be very careful, this could very well be a Cacodoxy!

Baloney.

 

[jtartar]

I believe the Son does not come into being until c 1 AD so the idea that a physical person is there at the beginning is a false concept. Even John rrecognizes that the Word became flesh and that the Word is God.

Thought is an attribute of the Spirit. The Word is an attribute of the Spirit.

I believe that is like asking what the difference is between my thinking and what I type. The difference is that thinking proceeds from myself and the thought typed then has an existence of its own. This is where I believe Hindus are confused because they view the creation and creator as one.

Savagewind,
There are so many opinions about everything pertaining to God. That is the reason that God had His word written down, so when there is a question we can all go to the Bible for truthful answers.
Did you not read what the Bible says at Col 1:15, and Rev 3:14? It is recorded so that we can find the answer. It says here that Jesus is God's first creation. Phil 2:6, that Jesus was in the form of God, meaning that Jesus was created as a spirit person, the same as the millions of angels.
God transferred the life of Jesus into the womb of Mary and he then became a flesh and blood man.
At John 1:1 is is stated that Jesus is a God, but John did not mean that he was God The Father. Consider that Jesus said that the Father is greater than I am, John 14:28, also that his Father was both his father and his God, John 20:17. Jesus also stated that his Father is the only true God, John 17:1-3. So Jesus definitely knew that his Father was the only true GOD.
The Bible says that Jesus is a god, even a mighty god, Isa 9:6, but Jesus would be the first to tell you he is not The Father, The Almighty GOD. The term Almighty is mutually exclusive, only one, Ex 6:3.
Something to think about. There is a dictionary term, Dope Out!! This is what any person does when he tries to reason from his own knowledge.
Every person is so limited in knowledge that God had the Bible written so we could rely on the knowledge from God when trying to understand things, especially Biblical things, as Doctrines, Prov 2:1-9, 3:5,6, Gen 40:8. The Bible is always there and does not change as does men's ideas. The bible was inspired by God, and every answer we want is contained in it, 2Tim 3:16,17, 2Pet 1:20,21,Matt 6:8.
Do not have Sacred Cows, or Home Truths, that you would rather believe than what the Bible says, or in time you will be proved wrong, just like all Bible critics.

 

[Eileen]

"Son of God" is a title. HaShem declared Solomon would be His son 2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son..., 1Ch 17:1 etc. HaShem says Israel is His son, His first born son-Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
It is a title bestowed by HaShem. It is not a declaration of physical paternity. HaShem bestowed this title on Yeshua at his baptism-Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Yes, I believe it really is that simple!

 

[lockyfan]

The bible says "God was matifested in the flesh", Jesus said "if you seen me you seen the father", Isaiah 9:6 says "unto a child is born a son is given and his name shall be called .........., The mighty God, The everlasting Father. What is the greatest commandment " Hear O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord" not a Tri god but one God. Jehovah said " I am alpha omega first and last", Jesus says same thing in Revelation. To top it off Jehovah said He would not share glory and Jesus said "All power is given unto me in Heaven and Earth" where does that leave the Father

Waiting for it to be given back :
1 cor 15:27-27
Next, the end, when he hands the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and all power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God "subjected all things under his feet"but when he says that áll things have been subjected,' it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things have been subjected to him, the the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Basically, Jehovah God has given Jesus an assignment, which is to bring all Gods enemies under control and remove them, then Jesus hands it all back to God. However because Jesus is only a "Mighty God"and not the Älmighty God"we see a clear distinction between Jesus and Jehovah. Father and Son. Jehovah according to Ps 90:2 say that God has always existed and will always exist (no beginning and no en) yet we see at Prov 8:20-32 and Col 1:15 that Jesus had a beginning. And also we know that Jesus was dead for three days, so it is kid of obvious that he is not God.

"Son of God" is a title. HaShem declared Solomon would be His son 2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son..., 1Ch 17:1 etc. HaShem says Israel is His son, His first born son-Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
It is a title bestowed by HaShem. It is not a declaration of physical paternity. HaShem bestowed this title on Yeshua at his baptism-Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Yes, I believe it really is that simple!

2 sam 7:14 This is actually a prophecy regarding Jesus ruling over Gods Kingdom.
as with all the others you have mentioned.

He is actually the "son of God" he is also called "the son of man" because he came to earth to exchange his perfect life for the one Adam lost

 

[Eileen]

Dear lockyfan

2[/QUOTE]


I understand that is what you believe concerning 2Sam 7:14 and there may be something in that as 'Son of God' is an appropriate title for the Messiah
but I believe you are in error concerning this 'life swap' thing and that Yeshua is the actual (by that I assume you mean physical) son of HaShem. HaShem is spirit and has no physical seed. Miriam was espoused to Yosef, HaShem would have been violating His own word if He had visited her womb in anyway. I know that is a very foreign idea to most people but HaShem will not violate His own word.

The Jews are not right about everything but they are correct about HaShem being echad (One-singular-unique) and they are correct that Messiah must be 100% human. Yes, most missed and still miss that Yeshua is Messiah but Yeshua never corrected the Jews on their understanding of HaShem or of the humanity absolute humanity of Messiah.

We could get into a verbal arm wrestling match about this but I don't think that would be productive. I believe (and sincerely hope) we are getting very close to the time when Yeshua will return and he and his out Father, HaShem will correct you and me concerning who and what Yeshua is. So I will leave that correction to them. Hope to see you in the resurrection.

 

[Muffled]

"Son of God" is a title. HaShem declared Solomon would be His son 2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son..., 1Ch 17:1 etc. HaShem says Israel is His son, His first born son-Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
It is a title bestowed by HaShem. It is not a declaration of physical paternity. HaShem bestowed this title on Yeshua at his baptism-Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Yes, I believe it really is that simple!

I believe it would really be that simple if there were not other verses that change the meaning considerably.

Even though it is not a declaration of direct paternity it is a declaration of direct participation so that "only begotten son" shows the true fulfillment of the tem. For instance God does not directly intervene in the birth of Israel so israel is a begotten son but not of God.

 

[Eileen]

I believe it would really be that simple if there were not other verses that change the meaning considerably.

Even though it is not a declaration of direct paternity it is a declaration of direct participation so that "only begotten son" shows the true fulfillment of the tem. For instance God does not directly intervene in the birth of Israel so israel is a begotten son but not of God.

First-what verses do you believe change the meaning considerably?

Second-HaShem, I believe, did directly intervene in the "birth" of Israel--the nation. He orchestrated it beginning with the calling of Abraham. In the same way He orchestrated the espousal (marriage) of Yosef and Miriam and that she would conceive at the very first time she and Yosef had intercourse.

In that HaShem orchestrates things to occur that lead to other things, He does directly participate in everything. Maybe I am not understanding what your understanding of the term "only begotten" implies. Yeshua is the only, one, single of his kind, chosen to be the Messiah, King and High Priest. I believe the term "only begotten" is used in this context.

 

[Bodhitharta]

But there are no spirits like God and Jesus clarifies the whole issue by saying John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. People there are no "gods" other than metaphorically there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and there is no one else