Homosexual adoption - Abomination or not?

[Alceste]

How will the child cope at school - with other children teasing them etc..?

I think it would be fair to say also that a child brought up by gay parents would have a slightly warped view of social roles and have a tendency to emotional dysfunction as a young adult.

You're just making this stuff up. Do you think that laws and public policies should be based on a bunch of stuff that nmartin just makes up off the top of his head due to his squeamishness about gays, or should they be based on sound ethical reasoning and empirical evidence?

 

[Alceste]

Storm:

not fascists but liberofascists - there is a big difference.

Liberal fascists are those who maintain their high moral ground as absolute because they are tolerant of everything. (except anything of course that could be vaguely construed as old fashioned or republican in any way)

Transference in action: You want to impose an old fashioned lifestyle on other people, regardless of how they want to live, but the ones who reject your right to do so are the "fascists".

When has a liberal person ever told you they want to deny you the right to living an old fashioned, traditional, right wing or republican way of life?

 

[Father Heathen]

One of the problems with pulling up statistical evidence about anything related to homosexuality and morality is that there is so much bias against conservative viewpoints that articles supporting their assertions are rarely published regardless of the physicians prestige. Those that are published are usually bashed into oblivion and the author is more or less lynched, figuratively speaking of course.

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." -Stephen Colbert

 

[Alceste]

do you have any evidence to support that claim?

There is tonnes of evidence that children of gay parents are as functional as children of heterosexual parents. I bet you're dying to read this fascinating research, so here is an example.

Psychosocial Adjustment, School Outcomes, and Romantic Relationships of Adolescents With Same-Sex Parents - Wainright - 2004 - Child Development - Wiley Online Library

This study examined associations among family type (same-sex vs. opposite-sex parents); family and relationship variables; and the psychosocial adjustment, school outcomes, and romantic attractions and behaviors of adolescents. Participants included 44 12- to 18-year-old adolescents parented by same-sex couples and 44 same-aged adolescents parented by opposite-sex couples, matched on demographic characteristics and drawn from a national sample. Normative analyses indicated that, on measures of psychosocial adjustment and school outcomes, adolescents were functioning well, and their adjustment was not generally associated with family type. Assessments of romantic relationships and sexual behavior were not associated with family type. Regardless of family type, adolescents whose parents described closer relationships with them reported better school adjustment.

For future reference, a study is not an "opinion": it is a good faith effort to determine or quantify the actual impact of any given variable and to accept the outcome regardless of whether or not it agrees with one's original opinion.

 

[Father Heathen]

With so many children in need of homes, it does them a disservice to put arbitrary restrictions on adoption. What's important is having loving, responsible, competent parents. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

 

[Alceste]

One of the problems with pulling up statistical evidence about anything related to homosexuality and morality is that there is so much bias against conservative viewpoints that articles supporting their assertions are rarely published regardless of the physicians prestige. Those that are published are usually bashed into oblivion and the author is more or less lynched, figuratively speaking of course.

This is complete nonsense. The research doesn't support conservative homophobia because conservative homophobia is based on assertions that are factually incorrect, not because of some grand liberal conspiracy to exclude conservative ''research'' from scientific publication. Christian propaganda outfits are literally swimming in money. They certainly don't need the collaboration of ''liberal'' scientists to get their ''findings'' published.

 

[Alceste]

I am fine with that.

Let's do away with evidence, sources and the like and just have a debate based on opinion and experience.

My god, that sounds like my worst nightmare. What would be the purpose of such an exercise? You like arguing with people with no rules, when everybody is allowed to make stuff up off the top of their heads and the facts don't matter? OK then, your thread, your rules.

In my experience and opinion, homosexuals and the children of homosexuals have incredible super-powers like knowing the future, flight and telekenesis, are irresistably charismatic and are immune to every sort of disease.

Therefore ALL children should be raised by same sex parents.

Feel free to add sources etc.. if you like but the need to rely on it every time you express an opinon or view turns the thread into nothing more than a college debating club exercise.

That's right, let's all just argue by bald assertion from now on.

Did you know that homosexuals are smarter, more attractive, better dressed and more hygienic than heterosexuals?

 

[Valjean]

I agree with Alceste, nmartin. You're just making this stuff up; speculating, and ignoring the empirical evidence.
Do you think there have been no sociological studies of this question? There is overwhelming evidence that children of gays do just fine. The American Psychological Association and many other sociological, psychological and child welfare agencies assert this.

As far as what's Natural, the "traditional" nuclear family isn't Natural. It's an anthropologically unusual arrangement.

As for adoption, wouldn't adoption be preferable to having one's own children and adding to the ecological burden we impose on the planet? Wouldn't adoption be a conscious, and noble, act? an act that ameliorates a social problem rather than damages our life-support system?

 

[Straw Dog]

I've never discussed this issue so thought I would see what the general views were.

I am talking about homosexual adoption , ie: Two men or Two women as a couple legally adopting a young child.

As a general feeling I believe this to be wrong and should be banned for the good of the child.

Perhaps under certain scenarios it might be possible to a lesbian couple to adopt as women have naturally maternal instincts but I don't think two men would be appropriate.

I am not homophobic by the way.

any views or questions - please go ahead.

Why do you go straight to its either an abomination or not? Anytime somebody uses the word "abomination" when discussing the lives of homosexuals, I can't help but suspect they may be a little homophobic. It becomes even more suspicious whenever they have to go out of their way to state that they are not homophobic. I'm not saying that you are. I'm just saying that I suspect that you may be without realizing it. That's just my opinion, however, but it does carry as much weight as your opinion since facts don't matter in this debate apparently.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Did you know that homosexuals are smarter, more attractive, better dressed and more hygienic than heterosexuals?

This makes me suspect that I may be gay. Can you help me test it out by sending me a picture of you topless? All for scientific curiosity of course.

 

[Quiddity]

Any studies on this are premature (there just isn't enough adults who were raised by a gay couple). If you are looking for data that will be respected and not called into question as being speculative or subjective, you need to find articles from peer-reviewed scholarly journals, in particular in the psychological field. However, keep in mind that data from psychological organizations like the APA are without a doubt bias (however, that doesn't mean their studies are wrong). With the sampling size they've had thus far, they can conclude that:

The results of some studies suggest that lesbian mothers' and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples.

Lesbian & Gay Parenting: Theoretical & Conceptual Examinations Related to Lesbian & Gay Parenting

So, not only are they able to be parents but put heterosexuals to shame.

Personally, I don't care for it as I think today's family unit is complex. Love is not all you need. And even if it was, you get into the whole discussion of what entails something "loving". Is spanking loving? Most gay couples don't spank according to the APA.....so I'm guessing spanking is viewed as barbaric of sorts.

 

[Alceste]

A heterosexual couple who could conceive but wanted to adopt would be dealt with case by case - but if both partners health were fine then why would they want to adopt anyway? - that would need to be considered.

How does the expense or hassle of conceiving come into the equation?


To start off as the base form of the argument I would say that a young gay couple that were healthy should be told that they cannot adopt as they do not need to.

As for any exceptional circumstances then please ask and I will see how it fits into the plan.

I am a heterosexual woman in a stable relationship capable of procreation who wants to adopt. Are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to do this? Why not? What should be done with all the unwanted children in the world if people are not allowed to adopt them?

 

[Father Heathen]

Any studies on this are premature (there just isn't enough adults who were raised by a gay couple). If you are looking for data that will be respected and not called into question as being speculative or subjective, you need to find articles from peer-reviewed scholarly journals, in particular in the psychological field. However, keep in mind that data from psychological organizations like the APA are without a doubt bias (however, that doesn't mean their studies are wrong). With the sampling size they've had thus far, they can conclude that:

The results of some studies suggest that lesbian mothers' and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples.

Lesbian & Gay Parenting: Theoretical & Conceptual Examinations Related to Lesbian & Gay Parenting

So, not only are they able to be parents but put heterosexuals to shame.

Personally, I don't care for it as I think today's family unit is complex. Love is not all you need. And even if it was, you get into the whole discussion of what entails something "loving". Is spanking loving? Most gay couples don't spank according to the APA.....so I'm guessing spanking is viewed as barbaric of sorts.

So you're saying that although you concede that the professional studies may be right, you still object because you don't find it emotionally palatable?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I am a heterosexual woman in a stable relationship capable of procreation who wants to adopt. Are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to do this? Why not? What should be done with all the unwanted children in the world if people are not allowed to adopt them?

Soylent green?

 

[Quiddity]

So you're saying that although you concede that the professional studies may be right, you still object because you don't find it emotionally palatable?

This may be hard for you to grasp but I have no emotions over this. I know many catholics and christians that do, but I don't. You can almost say I was raised by a gay man.

 

[Me Myself]

If gay couples are allowed to adopt children then where does that leave the role of marriage?

Marriage is meant to be one of the cornerstones of society, the family unit and all associated with it. This applies whether you are relgious or not.

So you don´t want single persons to adopt neither?


The gay couple may very well be married, I was assuming thayt to be the case anyways.

 

[Draka]

If gay couples are allowed to adopt children then where does that leave the role of marriage?

Marriage is meant to be one of the cornerstones of society, the family unit and all associated with it. This applies whether you are relgious or not.

Me Myself has a point. In many countries, and even some states in the US (including my own) same sex marriage is legal. So what does marriage have to do with adoption by homosexual couples if the couples in question are, in fact, married?

 

[Alceste]

This makes me suspect that I may be gay. Can you help me test it out by sending me a picture of you topless? All for scientific curiosity of course.

Ask Sunstone - he probably still has the one I sent back when I was trying to infuriate Archer in that disastrous old thread about dressing like a ****.

 

[Alceste]

Soylent green?

Mmmmmm. Delicious Unwanted Baby Flavoured Soylent Green...

 

[Majikthise]

Mmmmmm. Delicious Unwanted Baby Flavoured Soylent Green...

A favorite of most atheists.