homosexual

[Brickjectivity]

Hmm. Thanks for your experience. Yes, I admit there are many things I don't understand and that some of them appear to be paranormal (as in psychic or something). The Quran is an old book, however, and it may not be talking about the paranormal. I wouldn't know; but what I do know is that language is language, especially English. For example when you play the game 'Billiards' and you add spin to the ball, the official terminology is that you 'Add some English' to the ball. A lot of times the English version of the Bible has a spin on it.

This part of the Quran you quoted " We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah)." Sounds like a repudiation of belief that demons are sentient creatures to be driven out. I think it has a kind of similar sound to James 1:13-14 where "God does not tempt nor can he be tempted, but each person is tempted and enticed by his own evil desires which drag him away." Note that taken literally it would mean 'Evil desires' can 'Drag' you, as if they were alive. Its just a figure of speech, however. You also need to be aware that in ancient times, viruses were called 'Demons' along with various other illnesses; and you can understand I think why that would be. A virus transfers between people, is invisible and affects both the health and mental state of the person affected. A person with a flu virus will be irritable, and their bodies will function abnormally. Just because the doctors called viruses 'Demons' doesn't mean that they were convinced the viruses were disembodied souls or even that we have to believe such crap. In fact I would argue that Jesus considers healing and driving out demons to be related. (Luke 13:32) I don't think he considered most 'Demons' to be conversant creatures but simply illnesses; and its likely that Quran could make the same usage depending upon the language and culture of the original hearers. It is an ancient book after all, but we are modern people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

*edit*

I was made this way, and if God has a problem with that, then it is his problem, not mine.

*edit*

A sheep, or any other non-human animal, cannot provide consent, or sign a contract, thus making your statement invalid.

*edit*

Bring it on I say! Let this destruction fall from the sky!

*edit*

The goal of the USA is to force others into submission and cooperation. Iraq, Nicaragua, Guatamale, and Honduras are just a few examples when America has not liberated, but has stepped in as a dictator.

 

[averageJOE]

*edit*

Here we go again with these same old tired, cliche arguments...

 

[Innominate]

*edit*

Let's get something straight here, homosexuality is naturally occurring and occurs in more species than just homo sapiens. The only thing in conflict here is a religious idea that wants to demonize those that are homosexual.

 

[allright]

As for homosexuality, it is not the reason Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. (Ezekiel 16:49)

Try taking a beginners Bible course. God is calling Judah Sodom in Ezekiel 16.
"Your younger sister who dwells to the South of you is Sodom" Ezekiel 16:48
He saying what Judah where doing in verse 49 was just as evil in his eyes as the sexual sin in Sodom.

 

[allright]

Let's get something straight here, homosexuality is naturally occurring and occurs in more species than just homo sapiens. The only thing in conflict here is a religious idea that wants to demonize those that are homosexual.

So your saying if you find an animal that acts in a certain way than its okay for humans?

Lions kill and eat their young.

 

[Innominate]

So your saying if you find an animal that acts in a certain way than its okay for humans?

Lions kill and eat their young.

Worst. Parallel. Ever.
I was getting to the point that homosexuality is a sexuality common in different species, including homo sapiens. That's all I said. Interpret it how you wish, but I never took a moral stance there.

It commonly occurs in nature and it doesn't have any apparent harmful effects..so what's the harm? Surely a just god wouldn't make someone attracted to members of the same sex, then doom them to hell for it..?

And for completion here, killing and eating offspring commonly occurs in nature and does have apparent harmful effects..so there's the harm.

The two can't really be analyzed as parallels.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

*edit*

Only a the loons who knew nothing about the Mayan calendar and accepted what the ill-and-under informed who also knew nothing of it told them about it.

*edit*

Can you prove, with empirical data, with peer-reviewed articles, with objective results and analysis, that eternal, everlasting life exists? Why at all should I believe that life somehow continues after the physical body, or even care if others do not believe in such a story?

 

[illykitty]

Surely a just god wouldn't make someone attracted to members of the same sex, then doom them to hell for it..?

I'm going to start with the disclaimer that I don't agree with him, but just for the sake of arguments, you could say the same about anything bad about humans. Why did god give some people X flaws and if they don't conquer that weakness they are thrown in hell (although not forever, iirc I think the only sin that grants forever in hell is rejection of god)? And if god did indeed forbid homosexuality then perhaps there could be consequences we don't know about yet, in this life, or in the case of some religious folks they believe those come in the afterlife as consequence for not getting over that flaw. Just trying to understand their pov.

We have to better ourselves and conquer those weaknesses. A Christian could argue that homosexuality is a barrier to get over, like in the same line as lust (which some people have no problem with either but that's a sin as well according to those religions).

Again I don't agree with homosexuality being wrong but I'm not god and I don't know what it thinks. Say it was true for a second that god disapproves, what can we do about it? Nothing. We're powerless. All one could do is hope that god forgives everyone or obey. I'm lucky I have a choice since I'm somewhere in the spectrum, not one end or the other. It must be hard to face persecution, like what that person wrote.

Anyway, I don't belong to Christianity, I'm just curious (and somewhat fascinated) by the answers.

 

[allright]

[

It commonly occurs in nature and it doesn't have any apparent harmful effects..so what's the harm? Surely a just god wouldn't make someone attracted to members of the same sex, then doom them to hell for it..? ]


All sin is a perversion of Gods intended creation

Mans sin nature tempts man to sin.

No one goes to hell for being a sinner,they go for rejecting Gods gift of forgiveness thru Jesus and choosing to continue in what God calls sin.

 

[JustWondering2]

[

No one goes to hell for being a sinner,they go for rejecting Gods gift of forgiveness thru Jesus and choosing to continue in what God calls sin.

So I guess that means there will only be Christians in Heaven, everyone else goes to Hell? Now that really sounds like something a Loving and Caring God would do to his creation? :sarcastic

 

[Skwim]

So I guess that means there will only be Christians in Heaven, everyone else goes to Hell? Now that really sounds like something a Loving and Caring God would do to his creation? :sarcastic

Yeah, automatically condemning 2/3 of the world's population to hell is a huge waste of life, and speaks to very poor pre-planning on god's part. Anyone in business with such a poor success ratio would be out on his butt yesterday.

 

[Domenic]

Only a the loons who knew nothing about the Mayan calendar and accepted what the ill-and-under informed who also knew nothing of it told them about it.


Can you prove, with empirical data, with peer-reviewed articles, with objective results and analysis, that eternal, everlasting life exists? Why at all should I believe that life somehow continues after the physical body, or even care if others do not believe in such a story?

No body is trying to sell you on anything. You have the life style you want. You believe what you want. So why are you asking me to prove anything to you?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

*edit*

Why should we accept you as God's spokesman?

God tells me that homosexuality is perfectly moral. He tells you the opposite, apparently. Why should people listen to you instead of me?

 

[McBell]

No body is trying to sell you on anything. You have the life style you want. You believe what you want. So why are you asking me to prove anything to you?

Why the sermons then?
If you are not selling anything, like you claim, then why all the advertising?
Why all the empty threats?


I understand that you cannot support any of your claims with anything other than more unsupported claims.
Why not just admit to it and move on instead of this dishonest attempt at back peddling?

 

[Domenic]

Why should we accept you as God's spokesman?

God tells me that homosexuality is perfectly moral. He tells you the opposite, apparently. Why should people listen to you instead of me?

You call God a liar on his own word? You judge yourself.

 

[McBell]

You call God a liar on his own word? You judge yourself.

Such an ego you display.
Guess that merely goes along with your belief you speak for god.

Interestingly enough, you failed to answer the question:

Why should we accept you as God's spokesman?
​

Care to try again, or are you merely wishing to remain hidden behind your ego?

 

[Monotheist 101]

Story of Sodom and Gommora in the Quran;

[15.49] Inform My servants that I am the Forgiving, the Merciful,
[15.50] And that My punishment-- that is the painful punishment.
[15.51] And inform them of the guests of Ibrahim:
[15.52] When they entered upon him, they said, Peace. He said: Surely we are afraid of you.
[15.53] They said: Be not afraid, surely we give you the good news of a boy, possessing knowledge.
[15.54] He said: Do you give me good news (of a son) when old age has come upon me?-- Of what then do you give me good news!
[15.55] . They said: We give you good news with truth, therefore be not of the despairing.
[15.56] He said: And who despairs of the mercy of his Lord but the erring ones?
[15.57] He said: What is your business then, O messengers?
[15.58] They said: Surely we are sent towards a guilty people,
[15.59] Except Lut's followers: We will most surely deliver them all,
[15.60] Except his wife; We ordained that she shall surely be of those who remain behind.
[15.61] So when the messengers (Angels in the form of Handsome Men) came to Lut's followers,
[15.62] He said: Surely you are an unknown people.
[15.63] They said: Nay, we have come to you with that about which they disputed.
[15.64] And we have come to you with the truth, and we are most surely truthful.
[15.65] Therefore go forth with your followers in a part of the night and yourself follow their rear, and let not any one of you turn round, and go forth whither you are commanded.
[15.66] And We revealed to him this decree, that the roots of these shall be cut off in the morning.
[15.67] And the people of the town came rejoicing.
[15.68] He said: Surely these are my guests, therefore do not disgrace me,
[15.69] And guard against (the punishment of) Allah and do not put me to shame.
[15.70] They said: Have we not forbidden you from (other) people?
[15.71] He said: These are my daughters, if you will do (aught). (He offered his daughters, hoping that people of the town would leave his male guests alone)
[15.72] By your life! they were blindly wandering on in their intoxication.
[15.73] So the rumbling overtook them (while) entering upon the time of sunrise;
[15.74] Thus did We turn it upside down, and rained down upon them stones of what had been decreed.
[15.75] Surely in this are signs for those who examine.
[15.76] And surely it is on a road that still abides.
[15.77] Most surely there is a sign in this for the believers.
[15.78] And the dwellers of the thicket also were most surely unjust.
[15.79] So We inflicted retribution on them, and they are both, indeed, on an open road (still) pursued.
[15.80] And the dwellers of the Rock certainly rejected the messengers;
[15.81] And We gave them Our communications, but they turned aside from them;
[15.82] And they hewed houses in the mountains in security.
[15.83] So the rumbling overtook them in the morning;
[15.84] And what they earned did not avail them.
[15.85] And We did not create the heavens and the earth and what is between them two but in truth(in pairs); and the hour is most surely coming, so turn away with kindly forgiveness.
[15.86] Surely your Lord is the Creator of all things, the Knowing.
[15.87] And certainly We have given you seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the grand Quran.
[15.88] Do not strain your eyes after what We have given certain classes of them to enjoy, and do not grieve for them, and make yourself gentle to the believers.
[15.89] And say: Surely I am the plain warner.
[15.90] Like as We sent down on the dividers

26:160The people of Lut gave the lie to the apostles.26:161When their brother Lut said to them: Will you not guard (against evil)?26:162Surely I am a faithful apostle to you;26:163Therefore guard against (the punishment of) Allah and obey me:26:164And I do not ask you any reward for it; my reward is only with the Lord of the worlds;26:165What! do you come to the males from among the creatures26:166And leave what your Lord has created for you of your wives? Nay, you are a people exceeding limits.26:167They said: If you desist not, O Lut! you shall surely be of those who are expelled.26:168He said: Surely I am of those who utterly abhor your doing:26:169My Lord! Deliver me and my followers from what they do.26:170So We delivered him and his followers all,26:171Except an old woman, among those who remained behind.26:172Then We utterly destroyed the others.26:173And We rained down upon them a rain, and evil was the rain on those warned.26:174Most surely there is a sign in this, but most of them do not believe

Chapter 7:

80We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?

81"For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."

82And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"

83But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind.

84And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!


I hold the opinion that the Quran even though it is an "old book" is the most complete untampered divinely revealed text present on earth today. Because of these beliefs I place alot of weight in its lessons when making personal decisions and choices.

The argument about being born gay IMO is wrong I support the nurture arguments as oppossed to the nature argument.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sodom and Gomorrah? Seriously?

I simply cannot understand the mentality of someone who considers the problem with a story of threatened same-sex gang rape to be the "same-sex" part and not the "gang rape" part. If you really do believe this, I think you should do some serious reflection about whether your moral sense can be trusted.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The argument about being born gay IMO is wrong I support the nurture arguments as oppossed to the nature argument.

There isn't just the nurture part, which is what the general consensus among people who actually study that sort of thing (psychiatrist, psychologist, geneticists, biologists, etc.) is; both nature and nurture play a role in it. There has even been a deal of research put into fraternal twins and even birth order of siblings into finding genetic roles, while some studies have indicated a possible link between the amount of stress a mother is subjected to during pregnancy and preticting the sexuality of the offspring, the prediction being that high amounts of stress has produced groups with higher rates of homosexuality that pulls merit towards the nurture part of the debate.
To be honest about it, it's such a complicated and in-depth subject that you could easily fill a small library with nothing but books and journals written about the subject of sexuality and how it develops. There are even entire research institutes are dedicated to studying it.
You can have your opinion, but I will stick with my facts that have been empirically gathered, retested, peer-reviewed, and are backed by decades of credible research, not a small group of Freudian psychiatrists who are apparently oblivious to the fact Freud has been mostly and thoroughly debunked and discredited.
I have also done alot of research into the subject myself, and to say that it is wrong to say it isn't a choice is a statement that very easily proven wrong with just six words. Did you chose your own sexuality?