AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
What the heck are you talking about?
I asked you a simple question: God told me that homosexuality is fine. God told you that homosexuality is immoral.
Why should people listen to you instead of me?
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homosexual
- Thread starter sumaidi
- Start date
What the heck are you talking about?
I asked you a simple question: God told me that homosexuality is fine. God told you that homosexuality is immoral.
Why should people listen to you instead of me?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Since homosexuality appears frequently in nature, it must be your God.
Does yours have cool rituals too?
We are strictly talking about the Christian version of the Bible's take on the subject, now. The Jewish Bible is pretty much not condemning homosexuals as many people have claimed. The question is does the NT carry on the same spirit. All I can say for certain is that its not clear what is meant by the Greek word 'Soft'. I'm interpolating when I say it may be against those who sleep around. It could also be a prohibition against pimping. The NT is written in Koine, which means its not strictly Greek but a dialect. NT Koine has a lot of non-Greek things in it, too. In the time period when the NT was written the history is incomplete. There are lots of records from the Romans and Greeks, but its not like we have a perfect picture. Theories get overturned by new theories.
(back on the topic of the Jewish Bible) The main thing I wish to point out is that the Hebrew words are the same word. Men having sex was about as bad as eating shellfish. We read it as 'Detestable' in English; but then we go home and eat shellfish.
Ancient Hebrew died out as a spoken language for many centuries. The meanings are often interpolated from their usage in the text plus whatever feeling the translators have about them. The real difficulty is that everything depends upon understanding Jewish culture, and we aren't Jews.
The propaganda I refer to is the public defamation of homosexuals by preachers, particularly in the USA during the 70's, 80's and 90's. Jerry Falwell is an example. His alarmist preaching and scare tactics mixed with dubious Bible 'Interpretation' made him wealthy and turned the political landscape against homosexuals. Preachers like him started various scares which turned into nothing, such as the 'Backmasked rock & roll music' scare. Basically they didn't like Rock'n Roll as it was undermining them, so they made up some BS about it.
No, I don't wish to say that. I'll add that the popular notion of sitting down, reading the Bible, and getting a clear message from it is unrealistic. Its extremely old, translated, and its taken too literally by a lot of people who make themselves out to be authorities. When you or I then go to inquire about the meaning of some currently discussed topic, the information channels are flooded with repetitive information. That's propaganda.
JustWondering2
Just the facts Ma'am
How does what you said answer my question? I did not mention "evil", "forgiveness" or "repenting". In case you missed it here it is again:
"So I guess that means there will only be Christians in Heaven, everyone else goes to Hell? "
IOW you're saying your way is the only way to Heaven, correct? A simple yes or no will do for an answer.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
Since homosexuality appears frequently in nature, it must be your God.
Does yours have cool rituals too?
Yeah, He's a little troubled with OCDism. You should see His toothbrushing routine.
I didn't say that the Quran encouraged gang rape. I'm saying that YOUR ARGUMENT implies that gang rape is acceptable. Not God, not the Quran. YOU.
All the Quran itself implies is that the men of Sodom did something wicked. Personally, I think that attempting to rape someone else is wicked enough all by itself. However, for you to argue that it was homosexuality specifically that made them wicked, this implies that wanting to rape is not wicked by itself.
If attempted rape was sinful by itself, then you wouldn't be able to use the story to argue that God considers consensual homosexuality to be sinful. You're arguing that the important factor of the story was the men's homosexuality. This implies that the men's desire to rape is not the important factor.
So which is it?
- if you think that rape is wrong, then you can't use the story to argue that homosexuality is wrong.
- if you argue that this story implies that homosexuality is wrong, then you're implying that there's nothing wrong with rape.
Monotheist 101
Well-Known Member
Your still missing the point...They didnt want to rape the visitors, rather seduce them..I think your logic is flawed when you think that addressing the homo part of the argument makes me automatically accept that gang rape is right.. Why are you jumping to these conclusions...this is not the only time the story of Lot and his people is related in the Quran..these were a few examples...the main underlying point of the narrative is the "first people to have homosexual relations on earth"...I think you still see what you want to see...
According to your perception..
If I relate a story about a group of people robbing a bank and killing some people...If i was to address the part about the innocent people being killed..means that I think robbing a bank is alright? what a stupid conclusion to jump to..please keep your flawed logic to yourself..
Your hopeless..
Peace and God Bless
McBell
Unbound
Question 1 :Jesus said the answers to the questions is "Yes" therefore my answer is "Yes"
Question 2: No Im saying Jesus way is the only way to Heaven. You must be born again. You must repent of your sins and make him the Lord of your life
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McBell
Unbound
No Jesus said his way is the only way. Your war is with him, you want to make me the issue.
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McBell
Unbound
In your arrogance you have made assumptions that undermine your self proclaimed authority.
Sad really.
:sad4:Jesus is my authority, your war is with him
McBell
Unbound
Again you make assumptions that undermine your "authority".
At least you are consistent.
I do not claim or have any authority or say on who goes to Heaven. I only proclaim what Jesus said (who has all authority in Heaven and on earth)
The narrative in the Bible says that they threatened Lot and demanded he send the visitors out to them. When he refused they attempted to enter his house forcefully. It adds support for the enslavement culture of Sodom. Apparently visitors were up for grabs. While pleading Lot called the men outside 'Brothers' to emphasize the nature of the wickedness. "And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly."(19:7) This also placed Lot into a difficult situation, because he was a foreigner, too. They did not see foreigners as brothers. Abraham did, and Lot did. You notice he bowed his head to these complete strangers when they appeared at the city gate, and he insisted upon providing for them.
Luke the doctor, an educated man and author of a gospel did not mention sex at all in discussing Sodom's sins. Why, then, do modern ministers focus upon sex when talking about Sodom? I will tell you Sodom had no respect for human life. It did not believe man was made in the image of God, but Abraham did and Lot did. Lot preached this by bowing his head to visitors, just as Abraham did. In doing so he considered them holy. He greeted them, served them and fed them. Luke understood the importance of this, and that's why he didn't turn it into a story about sex. That would have detracted from the point of the story.Luke 17:28 said:
McBell
Unbound
You claim to speak for Jesus.
And in doing so, you make many assumptions.
Some of said assumptions undermine your self proclaimed authority.
Interestingly enough, you have failed to explain why you think your way is the only way outside your empty claim to speak for Jesus.
Now if you are fine with merely making empty claims based on your assumptions...
Monotheist 101
Well-Known Member
He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him.
George Orwell
“A child has no trouble believing the unbelievable, nor does the genius or the madman. It’s only you and I, with our big brains and our tiny hearts, who doubt and overthink and hesitate.”
― Steven Pressfield, Do the Work
“Humanity does not suffer from the disease of wrong beliefs but humanity suffers from the contagious nature of the lack of belief. If you have no magic with you it is not because magic does not exist but it is because you do not believe in it. Even if the sun shines brightly upon your skin every day, if you do not believe in the sunlight, the sunlight for you does not exist.”
― C. JoyBell C.
To become properly acquainted with a truth,
we must first have disbelieved it, and disputed against it.
- Novalis
Experience life in all possible ways -
good-bad, bitter-sweet, dark-light, summer-winter.
Experience all the dualities.
Don't be afraid of experience,
because the more experience you have,
the more mature you become.
- Osho
Why bother at all bro?
“You will find that it is necessary to let things go; simply for the reason that they are heavy. So let them go, let go of them. I tie no weights to my ankles.”
Peace
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Monotheist 101
Well-Known Member
[FONT="]A man that does not possess the willingness, patience and strength to break down a wall made of steel, does not deserve to see whats on the other side[/FONT]
McBell
Unbound
With all the nonsense you have already been spouting, I would hate to see what is on the other side of your steel wall...