Homosexuality and religious.

[CG Didymus]

Well dead bodies do not come alive after 3 days. Once we are dead and buried that’s it. I think that’s very rational and very irrational to believe that Christ’s Body came alive after being dead for 3 days. But after 3 days the disciples began to believe again and so Christianity rose.

Again... How does that fit the gospel narrative? It doesn't. Why not just say the gospel writers wrote a fictional story and passed it off as if it was true.

 

[CG Didymus]

Lamb is the light

And who is the "Lamb"? Not some random opinion from some Baha'i, but a quote from Baha'u'llah, Abdul Baha or Shoghi Effendi.

and the glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east.

Same thing... The Bab and Baha'u'llah didn't know about this verse? They just picked out some titles to call themselves, then later found out those titles fit a Bible verse, therefore it must be a prophecy? Then there's the same old problem... what is the context? If this was Baha'u'llah coming into the Temple through the gate, the Bab, what do he do once he got there?

 

[F1fan]

From what we know, a male sperm is required to fertilise a female egg to produce an infant. We do not know in the case of Mary what method was used as it is still a mystery but it is not an impossibility is all I’m saying.

No rational mind would assume this myth was true. Some scholars even suggest there was a mistranslation from woman to virgin. Most likely the myth was copied from older myths.

As to the religions supporting one another. I’m absolutely convinced of that. The reason is because religions are divided into two parts, one part is the spiritual teachings and the other part is the social teachings. The part of religions which support and confirm each other are the spiritual teachings which teach things like the virtues and having an upright character. It is only the social teachings traditions and customs which are different according to the age in which the religion appeared. But spiritually each and every religion supports and confirms each and every other religion. That is a proven fact if you go to any of the Scriptures of any of the religions you will find they all speak about similar virtues and good conduct and to refrain from vices etc.

This is just how humans evolved. The social behavior of humans distilled in a way to maximize security and cohesion. Religions simply codified these traits. This is why despite Gods and religion there have still been wars, including religious wars.

Social teachings for example - at the time of Mohammed the object was to establish nationhood. So Mohammed established the nation with a constitution and laws. But as we entered into the modern era and communications began to be widespread and countries began to intermingle Baha’u’llah appeared with teachings for world unity. His spiritual teachings are the same is the spiritual teachings of the past, where as Christ said Love Thy Neighbor and Mohammed says to love your country and Baha’u’llah says to love all mankind no contradiction whatsoever.

Yet the Crusades happened. Hindus and Muslims in India could not live togther so pakistan was formed for the Muslims in the late 1940's.

There is only one God Baha’is believe and that at the end of the age it is said in the Christian Bible that the true interpretation would be unveiled. Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the One and He explained that this belief in a bodily resurrection was mere superstition. So we accept that.

Above you wrote "As to the religions supporting one another. I’m absolutely convinced of that." That resurrection idea is crucial in Christianity. It is THE core of it working as a religion, so superstition? Your belief is supporting Christianity?

Baha’is can pray to God directly or any of His Manifestations. So I can pray to Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Moses, Krishna, Baha’u’llah as long as I understand They are Intercessors not God Himself.

Buddha was a mortal, not a god or any sort of theistic being. I suggest this is a sort of abduction of Siddartha for your benefit. And Moses was not a historical fugure, rather a fictional character. And there is doubt that Jesus existed. So what you say above is built on a lot of dubious things.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Then what a great title to call himself. Then he showed all his friends, "Hey look, my name is in the Bible." That's not fulfilling prophesy. That's finding a way to make himself fit into prophecy.

Well you go and do that and reveal Tablets like He did and establish a world community. With the Name goes the suffering of 40 years exile and torture. If it’s that easy then you do it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No rational mind would assume this myth was true. Some scholars even suggest there was a mistranslation from woman to virgin. Most likely the myth was copied from older myths.


This is just how humans evolved. The social behavior of humans distilled in a way to maximize security and cohesion. Religions simply codified these traits. This is why despite Gods and religion there have still been wars, including religious wars.


Yet the Crusades happened. Hindus and Muslims in India could not live togther so pakistan was formed for the Muslims in the late 1940's.


Above you wrote "As to the religions supporting one another. I’m absolutely convinced of that." That resurrection idea is crucial in Christianity. It is THE core of it working as a religion, so superstition? Your belief is supporting Christianity?


Buddha was a mortal, not a god or any sort of theistic being. I suggest this is a sort of abduction of Siddartha for your benefit. And Moses was not a historical fugure, rather a fictional character. And there is doubt that Jesus existed. So what you say above is built on a lot of dubious things.

Baha’is don’t disagree with Christ just the interpretations. As to wars, humanity is still immature but as we do mature wars will end. That will happen as we become more aware of our oneness.

 

[CG Didymus]

It’s very different. Individual clergy recently ordered Baha’is homes to be buried down leaving them homeless. The Baha’i Community has no such individuals with that power.

Who were these people clergy of? Does that make all priests, ministers, pastors, gurus and all the other leaders and teachers of religion bad? And do Baha'is have leaders? Yes. Do some of them get paid? If they do, then what's the big difference between the leaders of your religion and the leaders of the other religions?

 

[CG Didymus]

Well you go and do that and reveal Tablets like He did and establish a world community. With the Name goes the suffering of 40 years exile and torture. If it’s that easy then you do it.

I wish Sheldon were here. That's got to be some kind of fallacy. But let's go back. The Arabic Bible has the word Baha'u'llah in it. Mirza Ḥusayn ‘Alí gives himself a title, Baha'u'llah. And he had no idea at the time that name was written all over in the Arabic Bible?

 

[CG Didymus]

It sure makes life easy when you don't have to think.

Unfortunately, there are people in some religions that do think... they think they are right.

 

[dybmh]

If critical thinking can’t see the truth in these Words then it is completely and utterly useless and worthless.

Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility.” (Baha’u’llah)

Truth? I see no facts here. It's an exhortation. You're welcome to be inspired by it; but, these are not assertions. I wouldn't even know how to evaluate this passage for "truth".

Do you see where I am coming from?

 

[CG Didymus]

Many dozens of quotes have been offered to we heathens and for me none suggest any divine message.

And how many "divine" messages are there? Just between two, the Fundy Christian message and the Baha'i message, they both contradict each other, and both can tell us why the other one is wrong.

 

[CG Didymus]

we been advised not to reply to those that reject the Spiritual side of their own selves.

So, there will be unity... between certain spiritual people. The unspiritual will not be part of it. But what about the "spiritual" that reject the Baha'i Faith? To Baha'is, how "spiritual" can they really be?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Who were these people clergy of? Does that make all priests, ministers, pastors, gurus and all the other leaders and teachers of religion bad? And do Baha'is have leaders? Yes. Do some of them get paid? If they do, then what's the big difference between the leaders of your religion and the leaders of the other religions?

There are no individual Baha’i leaders. All authority rests with Houses of Justice. There is no clergy in the Baha’i Faith. All Baha’is are expected to earn their living because we believe work is worship. So office workers will get paid but we don’t have any clergy or paid priesthood as it is not considered a legitimate profession.

 

[Vinayaka]

So, there will be unity... between certain spiritual people. The unspiritual will not be part of it. But what about the "spiritual" that reject the Baha'i Faith? To Baha'is, how "spiritual" can they really be?

I'm not spiritual. and I'm glad for that. If being spiritual means being bigoted, I want no part of it.

 

[Vinayaka]

With regards to homosexuality. Baha’is believe that humanity as a race grows, develops and progresses much like the human body. We believe that man is a spiritual being. Over the centuries things like war and oppression have been an immature expression of ourselves. But now we have reached adolescence and so are experimenting with different fads and lifestyles to find happiness and contentment.

But we believe this to be a transient stage in our development which we will willingly discard as we reach spiritual maturity. So many vices will disappear and a virtuous society will gradually be born over time. Of course the rebelliousness of youth is expressed by contending with Baha’u’llah over homosexuality but as we mature I believe we will change our temporary immature stance.

As to God. Until one has found God he will insist God is imaginary but for those who know God, He is as real as the sun in the sky.

There is a saying by Baha’u’llah that perfectly describes atheism. Atheism I personally believe to be wilful emotional, mental and spiritual blindness bases upon a form of egoism which worships the self. Which insists that the self is all there is and is always right. Baha’is are wary of the self and only fully trust God.

“Even as the sun, bright
hath He shined,
But alas, He hath come to the town of the blind”


The Seven Valleys, The Four Valleys
Bahá’u’lláh

I'm glad to be blind. I wouldn't want to see what the Baha'i see ... that all the other religions are outdated, that the only way out is through Baha'u'llah the Infallible, that women aren't capable of leading this grand new faith. I'm happy to be blind for all of that. Yay!

 

[CG Didymus]

If anything we are more aware that the texts are mundane and there is a prejudical elemnet to the relgion. We have asked how belief in this religion is reasonable, and the answers fell short. So the next questions were why a person would believe when it isn't reasonable and even that was unsatisfactory. I have no real clue why any of you have decided to follow it.


I don't see much spiritual in belief in dogmas. And if you had strong spirits I would expect believers to easily withstand all sorts of critique and questioning. It seems believers have realized the weaknesses in Bahai and struggling to maintain a coherent defense. I suspect even a bit of crisis of faith.


What shame is there to have beliefs and attempt to expalin and defend them in open debate? If theists are correct in their beliefs then they will easily prevail in debates. We see religions have many flaws and errors, and believers all struggle to defend belief in them.

I've talked about this before. Supposedly, Elijah challenged the prophets of a false God. He prepared an animal sacrifice to his God, the real, living God. And the prophets of the false religion prepared theirs. Of course, no matter how they cried out to their false God, there was no response. Then Elijah called out to his God and immediately his sacrifice was struck with lightening and totally consumed.

Do you think a Baha'i would ever try such a thing? Which, if they don't at least try, it kind of shows how little faith they really have in their God.

 

[F1fan]

Baha’is don’t disagree with Christ just the interpretations.

Christians and Christianity aren't Christ. You disagree with Christians and Christianity since how Christians believe is through their interpretations. So you are not supporting Christianity as a Bahai even through you claimed Bahai does.

As to wars, humanity is still immature but as we do mature wars will end.

If we are immature then what good are religions? We are on an endless cycle of war and recovery, and then more war, followed by another recovery, etc. Religion doesn't help. And if you are immature what good is Bahai doing you, right? You're immature.

That will happen as we become more aware of our oneness.

Yet the way you Bahai are explaining things, and expressing your personal views, you don't seem aware of it yet. Bahai has a serious problem with it's bigotry, so it's doomed to fail under its own weight. If Baha'u'llah knew anything he would have written books on psychology, and been able to reveal cures for mental disorders. Or short of that, just eliminate those with mental problems so the rest of society is stable. As it is our species has many genetic flaws and there is no ideological way to create a utopian solution Bahai suggests.

Maybe a few more terrible wars, and some pandemics we can't cure, and the global population might dwindle to a point where we all have to cooperate, then you might have oneness. It won't happen through any religion as we observe. And especially not one that is bogoted.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Truth? I see no facts here. It's an exhortation. You're welcome to be inspired by it; but, these are not assertions. I wouldn't even know how to evaluate this passage for "truth".

Do you see where I am coming from?

These are some of the teachings Baha’u’llah. Baha’is are people who love teachings like this which can be found in all the religions. For us, the purpose of life is to acquire these virtues which we believe give true happiness.

 

[dybmh]

There is a saying by Baha’u’llah that perfectly describes atheism. Atheism I personally believe to be wilful emotional, mental and spiritual blindness bases upon a form of egoism which worships the self. Which insists that the self is all there is and is always right.

Dear Sweet Lord. That's a harsh judgement.

Judging at one point in the debate was discouraged. What's changed?

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm not spiritual. and I'm glad for that. If being spiritual means being bigoted, I want no part of it.

Yeah, these words get screwed up by some of these proselytizing religions. A true seeker, or a "spiritual" person, will find Jesus, or Baha'u'llah or whomever. Therefore, if you don't find them, then you're not a true seeker? You're not spiritual? You're blind, lost, and trapped in your illusions?

But how crazy is that. Some of the people here are saying people like the Baha'is are the ones trapped in their own illusion of what is true. Now what could be done to verify that their beliefs are true?

 

[CG Didymus]

These are some of the teachings Baha’u’llah. Baha’is are people who love teachings like this which can be found in all the religions. For us, the purpose of life is to acquire these virtues which we believe give true happiness.

But you know most all Baha'is really don't exhibit these virtues such as love, compassion, empathy, humility etc. It's unfortunate, but I've said it before, most Baha'is come off as being spiritual know it all's. And I can see why that happens. Baha'is believe they have the truth. And they don't want to give the impression that they have any doubt.

But if Baha'is really believe this stuff, then they've got to show more love, respect, understanding, forgiveness, and a little humility never hurt.