Homosexuality and religious.

[F1fan]

I've talked about this before. Supposedly, Elijah challenged the prophets of a false God. He prepared an animal sacrifice to his God, the real, living God. And the prophets of the false religion prepared theirs. Of course, no matter how they cried out to their false God, there was no response. Then Elijah called out to his God and immediately his sacrifice was struck with lightening and totally consumed.

Do you think a Baha'i would ever try such a thing? Which, if they don't at least try, it kind of shows how little faith they really have in their God.

I suspect by the 1800's Baha'u'llah knew that God was absent and didn't interact with ordinary mortals. Of course a Messenger should have been able to perform some act that demonstrates God exists.

 

[CG Didymus]

From what we know, a male sperm is required to fertilise a female egg to produce an infant. We do not know in the case of Mary what method was used as it is still a mystery but it is not an impossibility is all

Matthew 1:18-25 New International Version (NIV)
This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
​

But who believes that? That would have been God doing a miracle. Why would he stoop to such things?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Christians and Christianity aren't Christ. You disagree with Christians and Christianity since how Christians believe is through their interpretations. So you are not supporting Christianity as a Bahai even through you claimed Bahai does.


If we are immature then what good are religions? We are on an endless cycle of war and recovery, and then more war, followed by another recovery, etc. Religion doesn't help. And if you are immature what good is Bahai doing you, right? You're immature.


Yet the way you Bahai are explaining things, and expressing your personal views, you don't seem aware of it yet. Bahai has a serious problem with it's bigotry, so it's doomed to fail under its own weight. If Baha'u'llah knew anything he would have written books on psychology, and been able to reveal cures for mental disorders. Or short of that, just eliminate those with mental problems so the rest of society is stable. As it is our species has many genetic flaws and there is no ideological way to create a utopian solution Bahai suggests.

Maybe a few more terrible wars, and some pandemics we can't cure, and the global population might dwindle to a point where we all have to cooperate, then you might have oneness. It won't happen through any religion as we observe. And especially not one that is bogoted.

We don’t support Christians interpretations of the Bible. There are over 40,000 sects who each disagree. We follow Christ and the interpretation of Baha’u’llah Who we believe is the promised One Christians await.

Humanity is not yet mature but it has progressed scientifically and socially just not so much spiritually. The Messengers of God encourage us to develop our higher nature such as virtues. So things like human rights and womens equality we are still struggling with but are progressing. Baha’u’llah teaches to see all races as equal and accept all religions as they all teach virtues and to be of upright character.

If you have the impression Baha’i is Utopia then you’re way off the mark. We are in no way Utopia just trying to help a bit. And we are not going to solve humanity’s problems, humanity is.

We agree that it will take a lot to get nations, races and religions to put aside their differences and work together but I believe it’s a process that has already begun and well underway.

As I said. We Baha’is view the current fads and lifestyles such as homosexuality as an immature passing stage of our intellectual adolescence that will disappear as society grows spiritually.

I want to stop for a minute and thank you for keeping our discussion so civil. We both disagree strongly on some issues but that doesn’t matter to me I still see you as a friend.

 

[CG Didymus]

This oversimplifies the critique.

He left out an important group... The ones that are just nominal believers. And Baha'is have them too. They call them "inactive" Baha'is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Matthew 1:18-25 New International Version (NIV)
This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
​

But who believes that? That would have been God doing a miracle. Why would he stoop to such things?

Yes we accept that of course why? Not blindly but because Three Manifestations of God confirm the virgin birth. Firstly Christ, then Muhammad in the Quran and Baha’u’llah. But rising from the dead and bodily resurrection is rejected by the Manifestations as a misinterpretation of scriptures. And I trust the Manifestation over human interpretations.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is clearly false. My faith, Hinduism, has very clear spiritual teachings that are very very different from that of the Baha'i. Reincarnation, moksha, brahman, vegetarianism, the nature of the soul, the path to God, samadhi, kundalini, the use of murthis on worship, the nature of sound, inner light, chakras, monism, and much much more isn't even found in Abrahamic religions. I don't know how you can make such preposterous claims with a straight face?

Again, Krishna is GOD, not some manifestation. Your incorrect information and presentation may not be countered by the Baha'i echo chamber, but it won't be supported by any non-Baha'i either.

I used to hear the quote, "There are many paths to God". And then the one about the blind men describing an elephant. Baha'is almost say those things. And I think that they somehow convince themselves that they do believe in those concepts.

But then they mess it all up by telling us what the Baha'i Faith is really about... It has replaced all the other religions with newer, better teachings. Which makes them the only true path to God and the only people that aren't blind and can see the whole elephant.

 

[CG Didymus]

I suspect by the 1800's Baha'u'llah knew that God was absent and didn't interact with ordinary mortals. Of course a Messenger should have been able to perform some act that demonstrates God exists.

You know the Baha'is say he did, but they downplay it, because they say Baha'u'llah wanted to be believed for his teachings not his miracles.

 

[CG Didymus]

current fads and lifestyles such as homosexuality

"Current" fad? I thought there's been guys doing it with guys and woman doing it with women way back in the olden days of... like from the beginning. What's current is gays demanding to be treated as equals, as normal, as being okay and not as if they are some horrible thing that must be condemned and even exterminated.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes we accept that of course why? Not blindly but because Three Manifestations of God confirm the virgin birth. Firstly Christ, then Muhammad in the Quran and Baha’u’llah. But rising from the dead and bodily resurrection is rejected by the Manifestations as a misinterpretation of scriptures. And I trust the Manifestation over human interpretations.

You said you didn't know how she got pregnant. It was God through the Holy Spirit.

And again, do you believe the birth stories in the gospels or the version in the Quran? And is there a Baha'i version? Oh, but I still think it's strange that it's just based on one verse in Isaiah. But who cares about context.

 

[F1fan]

We don’t support Christians interpretations of the Bible. There are over 40,000 sects who each disagree. We follow Christ and the interpretation of Baha’u’llah Who we believe is the promised One Christians await.

Do you think Christ was a bigot? Do you think he would have condemned gays? He taught not to judge, so how do you reconcile this inconsistency?

Humanity is not yet mature but it has progressed scientifically and socially just not so much spiritually.

So could be easily duped by someone claiming to be a Messenger. Well some aren't duped. Some acknowledge inconsistencies, and the lack of evidence for a God.

The Messengers of God encourage us to develop our higher nature such as virtues.

But many non-believers have these, and many theists don't. Don't you find that odd? Maybe religion isn't the answer.

So things like human rights and womens equality we are still struggling with but are progressing. Baha’u’llah teaches to see all races as equal and accept all religions as they all teach virtues and to be of upright character.

Except gays, so that's a deal breaker. Not exactly virtuous.

If you have the impression Baha’i is Utopia then you’re way off the mark. We are in no way Utopia just trying to help a bit. And we are not going to solve humanity’s problems, humanity is.

Bahai themselves seems to believe their beliefs will bring some utopian oneness and unity. This belief isn't my idea. You offer no means to acheive this end.

We agree that it will take a lot to get nations, races and religions to put aside their differences and work together but I believe it’s a process that has already begun and well underway.

Will you set aside your differences about the rights of gay people? If no, well then, your war is within yourself. Until you can solve that then your religion will fail you and humanity.

As I said. We Baha’is view the current fads and lifestyles such as homosexuality as an immature passing stage of our intellectual adolescence that will disappear as society grows spiritually.

Fads? This is insulting and cruel to gay people.

 

[dybmh]

These are some of the teachings Baha’u’llah. Baha’is are people who love teachings like this which can be found in all the religions. For us, the purpose of life is to acquire these virtues which we believe give true happiness.

The more you and others attack such beautiful teachings the more lucky I realise I am and the more ignorant I realise critical thinkers are to be attacking the author of such beautiful Writings and Teachings. If critical thinking can’t see the truth in these Words then it is completely and utterly useless and worthless.

OK. When I read the list, one virtue stood out to me. "Admonish the rich." Why admonish the rich? What did they do? Did they all collectively do something wrong to deserve a universal admonition? Or did a few do something and that ruined the reputation of the rich? As it's written, this is unexplained and unjustified.

This is a rather large speed-bump for me considering the other occurances of broad brushed, stereotypes being employed in the Baha'i writing. So far, priests, gays, and atheists nd universally negatively judged; now we're adding "the rich" to the list?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But you know most all Baha'is really don't exhibit these virtues such as love, compassion, empathy, humility etc. It's unfortunate, but I've said it before, most Baha'is come off as being spiritual know it all's. And I can see why that happens. Baha'is believe they have the truth. And they don't want to give the impression that they have any doubt.

But if Baha'is really believe this stuff, then they've got to show more love, respect, understanding, forgiveness, and a little humility never hurt.

Yes I fully agree with you CG. That is why I have always said I never ever deserved such a gift because I am only too aware of my shortcomings. That nothing I can say can ever do any justice to such a wonderful Cause.

No doubts.

 

[dybmh]

There are over 40,000 sects who each disagree.

This number has been debunked. Here's a blog post detailing it. In summary:

it is quite misleading to say that there are 40,000 denominations worldwide, if by that we mean that there are 40,000 organised bodies of Christians who are divided against each other.

The actual number of denominations is a far smaller number (they count 300 major ecclesiastical traditions worldwide, grouped into 6 ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs)
​

40,000 Denominations Worldwide – Christianity Divided? - The Ben Smart Blog

 

[Spirit of Light]

OK. When I read the list, one virtue stood out to me. "Admonish the rich." Why admonish the rich? What did they do? Did they all collectively do something wrong to deserve a universal admonition? Or did a few do something and that ruined the reputation of the rich? As it's written, this is unexplained and unjustified.

This is a rather large speed-bump for me considering the other occurances of broad brushed, stereotypes being employed in the Baha'i writing. So far, priests, gays, and atheists nd universally negatively judged; now we're adding "the rich" to the list?

I wonder what experiences other Baha'is see in who i am now (after my OP yesterday) will i be judged similarly to how certain gay people experience it now?

 

[dybmh]

I wonder what experiences other Baha'is see in who i am now (after my OP yesterday) will i be judged similarly to how certain gay people experience it now?

expect the best, prepare for the worst?

 

[loverofhumanity]

OK. When I read the list, one virtue stood out to me. "Admonish the rich." Why admonish the rich? What did they do? Did they all collectively do something wrong to deserve a universal admonition? Or did a few do something and that ruined the reputation of the rich? As it's written, this is unexplained and unjustified.

This is a rather large speed-bump for me considering the other occurances of broad brushed, stereotypes being employed in the Baha'i writing. So far, priests, gays, and atheists nd universally negatively judged; now we're adding "the rich" to the list?

The rich is a very broad term and does not just refer to a person who is wealthy but the actual use of riches. I think that the $trillions wasted by nations on weapons and arms instead of improving the quality of life for all people is the kind of thing He is speaking about. Because He wants all humanity to live in comfort.

Baha’u’llah considers the rich have some duties in helping alleviate poverty and writes this. So He’s emphasising that the rich should be compassionate and not only care about the,selves.

‘O ye rich ones on earth! The poor in your midst are My trust, guard ye My trust, and be not intent only on your own ease.’

 

[loverofhumanity]

I wonder what experiences other Baha'is see in who i am now (after my OP yesterday) will i be judged similarly to how certain gay people experience it now?

I don’t see anything but a beautiful person. Have always seen you that way and always will. I learned so much from all your posts here and the fact you want what’s best for all.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don’t see anything but a beautiful person. Have always seen you that way and always will. I learned so much from all your posts here and the fact you want what’s best for all.

Thank you @loverofhumanity

 

[loverofhumanity]

This number has been debunked. Here's a blog post detailing it. In summary:

it is quite misleading to say that there are 40,000 denominations worldwide, if by that we mean that there are 40,000 organised bodies of Christians who are divided against each other.

The actual number of denominations is a far smaller number (they count 300 major ecclesiastical traditions worldwide, grouped into 6 ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs)
​

40,000 Denominations Worldwide – Christianity Divided? - The Ben Smart Blog

Thanks for that because I know there are many sects in Christianity but how many I’m unsure. If you add in the sects such as Mormons, Jehovas Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, Church of Christ, Lutheran, Russian Orthodox, Pentecostals. I still think it’s in the tens of thousands of sects because there’s just so many sects of Christianity that are not part of the mainstream. I can’t just go by one blog.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This number has been debunked. Here's a blog post detailing it. In summary:

it is quite misleading to say that there are 40,000 denominations worldwide, if by that we mean that there are 40,000 organised bodies of Christians who are divided against each other.

The actual number of denominations is a far smaller number (they count 300 major ecclesiastical traditions worldwide, grouped into 6 ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs)
​

40,000 Denominations Worldwide – Christianity Divided? - The Ben Smart Blog

If you have a look at line 41 of this document it’s listed as about 45,000 under church organisations which are different sects of Christianity.

https://www.gordonconwell.edu/wp-co...3/2019/04/StatusofGlobalChristianity20191.pdf