Homosexuality

[Left Coast]

She was a prostitute but what does that have to do with Ezekiel and lot?

No, Ezekiel does not say Sodom's sin was prostitution. Just read it. What does it say Sodom's sin was? Ezekiel 16:49

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Also, it is interesting, why they use rainbow flag as their symbol. It symbols segregation, because all colors are separated. If they truly are for equality, they should have brown flag, because in that all colors are mixed up equally. Much better symbol for equality.

Brown isn't what you get when you mix all colors. Neither in additive (which would be black) or subtractive (which would be white) color theory

But more importantly, equality =/= conformity or uniformity, which is why the US flag isn't purplish pink. It's about diversity of people under one banner.

 

[MyM]

No, Ezekiel does not say Sodom's sin was prostitution. Just read it. What does it say Sodom's sin was? Ezekiel 16:49

Still I don't get it. What does this have to do with Lot and Ezekiel? It makes no sense.




“‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. 51 Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done. 52 Bear your disgrace, for you have furnished some justification for your sisters. Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you. So then, be ashamed and bear your disgrace, for you have made your sisters appear righteous.

 

[MyM]

Acts are not the orientation. Therefore, the Bible identifies acts — not orientations. Since homosexuality is an orientation and not an act, the Bible doesn’t speak about homosexuality.

It says there plain as day. But anyways, it's there if you want to believe it or not

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

The answer is simple, let go, love your gay friends and family, and allow God to do the judging.,…………….we are all sinners anyway so even if being Gay happens to be a sin, there wouldn’t be much difference between the average gay and the average heterosexual, we all sin anyway.

I should also comment on the fact that Gay people should be considered as alleys, in my opinion adoption is the best way to find abortion (which is a much more evil crime than being gay even from the point of view of a super homophobic person) ………..and the best way to promote adoption is by tolerating and accepting gay men and woman and recognizing their right to adopt.

In other words even if you are a “super-homophobic” conservative you should tolerate and promote the “gay movement” and avoid abortion by doing so.

Sounds like you are just tolerating homosexuals, and not accepting they are equals

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Christianity and Islam condemning homosexuality is not moral. It's hard to take anyone serious who claims that we get our morals from religion.

 

[Left Coast]

Still I don't get it. What does this have to do with Lot and Ezekiel? It makes no sense.

The passage you're quoting is from Ezekiel. The point is that the sin of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality.

 

[MyM]

The passage you're quoting is from Ezekiel. The point is that the sin of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality.

You are quoting one instance of prostitutes...read the verses before that.... There's more to sodom than that verse

I am just quotin what the Bible is saying nothin more

 

[Rival]

You are quoting one instance of prostitutes...

It's not talking about literal prostitutes.

 

[Left Coast]

You are quoting one instance of prostitutes...read the verses before that.... There's more to sodom than that verse

The verses before that aren't about Sodom. They're about Israel. Ezekiel 16:1-3

I am just quotin what the Bible is saying nothin more

Actually you're not. I'm the one quoting the Bible to you. You believe things about the story that are at odds with the Bible. I'm just pointing that out to you, nothin more.

 

[Left Coast]

It's not talking about literal prostitutes.

Let's not confuse her more.

 

[sojourner]

It says there plain as day. But anyways, it's there if you want to believe it or not

No, it talks about acts. Right there, plain as day. It never talks about attraction, or love, or sharing, or relationship. It mentions acts that may not have anything to do with homosexuality. Do you not comprehend that there’s a difference between orientation and acts?

 

[MyM]

It's not talking about literal prostitutes.

“‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign Lord. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At every street corner you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, spreading your legs with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by. 26 You engaged in prostitution with the Egyptians, your neighbors with large genitals, and aroused my anger with your increasing promiscuity. 27 So I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your territory; I gave you over to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were shocked by your lewd conduct. 28 You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied. 29 Then you increased your promiscuity to include Babylonia, a land of merchants, but even with this you were not satisfied.

30 “‘I am filled with fury against you, declares the So Sovereign Lord, when you do all these things, acting like a brazen prostitute! 31 When you built your mounds at every street corner and made your lofty shrines in every public square, you were unlike a prostitute, because you scorned payment.
32 “‘You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband! 33 All prostitutes receive gifts, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors. 34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.

“‘Therefore, you prostitute, hear the word of the Lord! 36 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because you poured out your lust and exposed your naked body in your promiscuity with your lovers, and because of all your detestable idols, and because you gave them your children’s blood, 37 therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you found pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from all around and will strip you in front of them, and they will see you stark naked. 38 I will sentence you to the punishment of women who commit adultery and who shed blood; I will bring on you the blood vengeance of my wrath and jealous anger. 39 Then I will deliver you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your mounds and destroy your lofty shrines. They will strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry and leave you stark naked. 40 They will bring a mob against you, who will stone you and hack you to pieces with their swords. 41 They will burn down your houses and inflict punishment on you in the sight of many women. I will put a stop to your prostitution, and you will no longer pay your lovers. 42 Then my wrath against you will subside and my jealous anger will turn away from you; I will be calm and no longer angry.

43 “‘Because you did not remember the days of your youth but enraged me with all these things, I will surely bring down on your head what you have done, declares the Sovereign Lord. Did you not add lewdness to all your other detestable practices?

44 “‘Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: “Like mother, like daughter.” 45 You are a true daughter of your mother, who despised her husband and her children; and you are a true sister of your sisters, who despised their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. 46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only followed their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.



continues....

the whole story doesn't even make sesnse from the very beginning in the first place.

 

[Rival]

“‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign Lord. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At every street corner you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, spreading your legs with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by. 26 You engaged in prostitution with the Egyptians, your neighbors with large genitals, and aroused my anger with your increasing promiscuity. 27 So I stretched out my hand against you and reduced your territory; I gave you over to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were shocked by your lewd conduct. 28 You engaged in prostitution with the Assyrians too, because you were insatiable; and even after that, you still were not satisfied. 29 Then you increased your promiscuity to include Babylonia, a land of merchants, but even with this you were not satisfied.

30 “‘I am filled with fury against you, declares the So Sovereign Lord, when you do all these things, acting like a brazen prostitute! 31 When you built your mounds at every street corner and made your lofty shrines in every public square, you were unlike a prostitute, because you scorned payment.
32 “‘You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband! 33 All prostitutes receive gifts, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors. 34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.

“‘Therefore, you prostitute, hear the word of the Lord! 36 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because you poured out your lust and exposed your naked body in your promiscuity with your lovers, and because of all your detestable idols, and because you gave them your children’s blood, 37 therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you found pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from all around and will strip you in front of them, and they will see you stark naked. 38 I will sentence you to the punishment of women who commit adultery and who shed blood; I will bring on you the blood vengeance of my wrath and jealous anger. 39 Then I will deliver you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your mounds and destroy your lofty shrines. They will strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry and leave you stark naked. 40 They will bring a mob against you, who will stone you and hack you to pieces with their swords. 41 They will burn down your houses and inflict punishment on you in the sight of many women. I will put a stop to your prostitution, and you will no longer pay your lovers. 42 Then my wrath against you will subside and my jealous anger will turn away from you; I will be calm and no longer angry.

43 “‘Because you did not remember the days of your youth but enraged me with all these things, I will surely bring down on your head what you have done, declares the Sovereign Lord. Did you not add lewdness to all your other detestable practices?

44 “‘Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: “Like mother, like daughter.” 45 You are a true daughter of your mother, who despised her husband and her children; and you are a true sister of your sisters, who despised their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. 46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only followed their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.



continues....

the whole story doesn't even make sesnse from the very beginning in the first place.

He's comparing the idolatry of the named places to prostitution. It's fairly straightforward and graphic.

 

[MyM]

The verses before that aren't about Sodom. They're about Israel. Ezekiel 16:1-3



Actually you're not. I'm the one quoting the Bible to you. You believe things about the story that are at odds with the Bible. I'm just pointing that out to you, nothin more.

You're the one that brought up Ezekiel It's talkin about that specific but to Lot the story is different In Sodom and Gamora the entire city was destroyed and it wasn't because they were impolite people there were other cities that did worse if that was the case. They were doing bad sexual oriented things and they were not good people and that is what I know from the Quran as well (it is reaaaaaally clear that it was because they were doing things against the normal way...laying with men etc.)

 

[MyM]

He's comparing the idolatry of the named places to prostitution. It's fairly straightforward and graphic.

I can't tell you why the words are formed like these verses. God to me, doesn't speak like this nor does he talk in such a manner of sexual speech like that.

 

[Left Coast]

You're the one that brought up Ezekiel It's talkin about that specific but to Lot the story is different

The fact that Ezekiel's commentary doesn't agree with your preconceived view doesn't make it irrelevant. It just means you dont agree with the Bible.

In Sodom and Gamora the entire city was destroyed and it wasn't because they were impolite people there were other cities that did worse if that was the case.

It doesn't say in Ezekiel that they were destroyed for being "impolite."

They were doing bad sexual oriented things and they were not good people and that is what I know from the Quran as well (it is reaaaaaally clear that it was because they were doing things against the normal way...laying with men etc.)

You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but it's not clear at all from the actual, original story in the Bible that it had anything to do with consensual gay sex. And in fact the text directly says it was about other things. It's really that simple.

 

[MyM]

The fact that Ezekiel's commentary doesn't agree with your preconceived view doesn't make it irrelevant. It just means you dont agree with the Bible.



It doesn't say in Ezekiel that they were destroyed for being "impolite."



You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but it's not clear at all from the actual, original story in the Bible that it had anything to do with consensual gay sex. And in fact the text directly says it was about other things. It's really that simple.

okies you can believe it your way, but even as I was taught in sunday school this is what they preached. You can say it's not clear so there is room for ambiguity for all to have their say.

Now we will just agree to disagree.

 

[Left Coast]

okies you can believe it your way, but even as I was taught in sunday school this is what they preached. You can say it's not clear so there is room for ambiguity for all to have their say.

It is amazing how many people are taught things in Sunday school that are just not in the Bible at all. So that doesn't surprise me.

Now we will just agree to disagree.

Indeed.

 

[sojourner]

You're the one that brought up Ezekiel It's talkin about that specific but to Lot the story is different In Sodom and Gamora the entire city was destroyed and it wasn't because they were impolite people there were other cities that did worse if that was the case. They were doing bad sexual oriented things and they were not good people and that is what I know from the Quran as well (it is reaaaaaally clear that it was because they were doing things against the normal way...laying with men etc.)

This isn’t just about “being impolite.” The preponderance of the Levitican Law has to do with sheltering the vulnerable, especially strangers and outsiders. Notice, for example, that there was not an elder to greet visitors at the city gates. That was law. Instead, a visitor offered hospitality. Once taken in, the host was required to protect the guest even over his family. In the story, the visitor was a better host than the city elders.

The men weren’t doing “bad sexual oriented things,” they were committing violence against those they should have been sheltering.