Homosexuality

[Shadow Wolf]

Hi! I mentioned two roots--past imprinting (typically abuse by someone while the child is pre-pubescent or in early puberty) and/or a broken relationship/distance from in youth the same sex parent or guardian. Since being alerted to those twin roots by secular therapists, I've seen them in homosexuals particularly who lack all desire for heterosexual relations, have never performed/been aroused with the opposite gender, etc.

I've known many homosexuals who have been with the opposite sex and have no desire for them. They also don't come from broken backgrounds.
Amd secular therapist rarely use such Freudian nonsense anymore. Most of his stuff has been thoroughly debunked, debased, and discarded out the window.

 

[night912]

Can you or I score 100 on a test despite being fallible? Of course we can, and the Bible withstands all types of tests regarding prescience, prophecy and scientific accuracy.

I understand that you feel like you've accomplished a great feat after scoring 100 on a test. There's nothing wrong with you getting excited about that after being wrong on so many occasions, but there's something important that you need to know. That still doesn't change the fact that you can be wrong about the bible being inerrant. That may have been something that you've wanted for a long long time but you deserve to know the truth.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, this is entirely about your "pray the gay away" crap. You may try to dress it up with euphemisms... you may even sincerely believe yourself that you're doing good, what you're doing is evil.


It's mostly anger about the memory of a friend who was driven to suicide by someone like you.

Don't try to deflect. My anger, contempt and disgust for you right now is entitely about the evil you inflict on vulnerable people.

I HEAR you. I can hardly imagine your anger and sadness.

I HEAR you.

I'd never counsel/have never counseled "pray away the gay". I've had people come to me who are unhappy and we work to reconcile past trauma. When that healing comes, reconciliation comes.

In the same vein, I've had gay people ask if I'm asking them to change their orientation before conversion, and my main response has been consistently, "Straight people go to Hell also. Trust Jesus for salvation, then your new Father will work with you directly on all life issues including sexuality."

I think you may be misunderstanding two issues, one is that I revolve around issuing guilt trips. Jesus's Spirit provides comfort, peace and healing for me and for any who encounter Him IMHO.

 

[BilliardsBall]

"Broken relationship/distance from in youth the same sex parent or guardian" is pretty vague, and a very outdated Freudian outlook on the question. Anyone who goes looking will inevitably find that literally anyone, including straight people, have had some form of conflict or "distance" from their same sex parent in their childhood. For gay people, this can be due to their tendency to be gender non-conforming as children, particularly in conservative households where that behavior is criticized or forbidden.

But none of this stuff has been shown to be causal clinically, so whatever "secular therapists" you've read, they're very out of date. Nor is any of it relevant to the morality of same sex relationships.

Is that your way of telling me you don't fit my mold but do fit my mold?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Of course. And, of course, you still never addressed the "fix and flat" claim of the Bible.

There are very simple apologetics for those issues. For example, "pillars of the Earth" could be "government leaders" or refer to actual subterranean pillars and etc.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've known many homosexuals who have been with the opposite sex and have no desire for them. They also don't come from broken backgrounds.
Amd secular therapist rarely use such Freudian nonsense anymore. Most of his stuff has been thoroughly debunked, debased, and discarded out the window.

What I said was homosexuals who have NOT been or attempted to be sexual with the opposite sex.

Nor did I say "broken backgrounds". I said two primary causes of homosexuality--chief causes for people with zero desire for opposite sex people--are 1) sexual encounters at quite young ages with same sex people (imprinting) and 2) distant relationships with same sex parents or guardians. A woman can be in a two-parent house with a loving father and a distant, unrelatable mother and become lesbian.

A root of a lot of homosexuality is a desire to try to find identity. What is a man? A homosexual man wants to explore maleness and roles.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I understand that you feel like you've accomplished a great feat after scoring 100 on a test. There's nothing wrong with you getting excited about that after being wrong on so many occasions, but there's something important that you need to know. That still doesn't change the fact that you can be wrong about the bible being inerrant. That may have been something that you've wanted for a long long time but you deserve to know the truth.

How much have you researched Bible apologetics or inerrancy? How many times have you read the Bible, each time, poking and prodding at anything that seemed off, confirming, as I often do with skeptics' objections, that 99% of their objections are issues in English not present in the source languages or issues of context?

 

[Left Coast]

Is that your way of telling me you don't fit my mold but do fit my mold?

It's my way of telling you that your mold is vague and you probably fit your own mold.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nor did I say "broken backgrounds". I said two primary causes of homosexuality--chief causes for people with zero desire for opposite sex people--are 1) sexual encounters at quite young ages with same sex people (imprinting) and 2) distant relationships with same sex parents or guardians. A woman can be in a two-parent house with a loving father and a distant, unrelatable mother and become lesbian.

That's not how it works.

A root of a lot of homosexuality is a desire to try to find identity. What is a man? A homosexual man wants to explore maleness and roles.

That's every male who tries and wants to be masculine.

 

[night912]

How much have you researched Bible apologetics or inerrancy? How many times have you read the Bible, each time, poking and prodding at anything that seemed off, confirming, as I often do with skeptics' objections, that 99% of their objections are issues in English not present in the source languages or issues of context?

My knowledge of the bible has nothing to do with you being fallible. BillardsBall's rematch on logic.........Round 1.............KO!!!!

 

[night912]

How much have you researched Bible apologetics or inerrancy? How many times have you read the Bible, each time, poking and prodding at anything that seemed off, confirming, as I often do with skeptics' objections, that 99% of their objections are issues in English not present in the source languages or issues of context?

How were you able to calculate that to have a result of 99%?

 

[night912]

What I said was homosexuals who have NOT been or attempted to be sexual with the opposite sex.

Nor did I say "broken backgrounds". I said two primary causes of homosexuality--chief causes for people with zero desire for opposite sex people--are 1) sexual encounters at quite young ages with same sex people (imprinting) and 2) distant relationships with same sex parents or guardians. A woman can be in a two-parent house with a loving father and a distant, unrelatable mother and become lesbian.

A root of a lot of homosexuality is a desire to try to find identity. What is a man? A homosexual man wants to explore maleness and roles.

Can you present your peer reviewed paper detailing the research on homosexuality and the cause of it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Firstly, you're aware that being gay doesn't preclude a person from procreating, right? Tell me you at least know that much.

Your words drip with sarcasm & disdain. You seem to really have a problem with me.
Yes, I at least know that much.

Again, you should actually read some of the peer reviewed scientific research on these questions instead of just getting your information from the Watchtower.

Nothing I posted came from the Watchtower .
This was one source:
Beliefs about the Etiology of Homosexuality and about the Ramifications of Discovering Its Possible Genetic Origin

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Nowadays, everyone accepts it as "the norm" then, then the norm desensitizes and then it gets put into the system as completely normal.

I have nothing against homosexuals, but in all the Abrahamic religions, it is forbidden. God detests it and their books testify to this fact.

So I guess it boils down to who do you want to please? Your creator or people

Then ask God why He makes them.

 

[Left Coast]

Your words drip with sarcasm & disdain. You seem to really have a problem with me.
Yes, I at least know that much.

I don't know you. We've never met. My only problem "with you" is in vehement disagreement to some of the opinions you share.

When you tell me that there is something inherently problematic or immoral about my sexual orientation, with no basis other than you think your god says so, I'm going to have something to say about that. Nor do I, nor should I, apologize for that.

You'll find that I do this to a variety of members who make such statements. It's nothing to do with you individually.

Nothing I posted came from the Watchtower .
This was one source:
Beliefs about the Etiology of Homosexuality and about the Ramifications of Discovering Its Possible Genetic Origin

That article doesn't say anything to substantiate your more controversial claims. It is simply a survey of public opinion on the cause(s) of homosexuality and how they do or don't correlate to degree of support or opposition to it. It doesn't conclude that gayness is a choice or "lifestyle," doesn't indicate that any intervention can change it, and doesn't rule out the possibility of genetic factors (in fact it indicates they are likely at least part of the explanation).

Personally, I'm in agreement with the authors that the cause is likely complex and involves both genetic and environmental factors (such as conditions in utero). I'm also of the opinion that the question is essentially irrelevant to the sexual ethics involved.

So again - do you understand how claiming that my sexual orientation is a "lifestyle" is problematic? Do you understand how comparing it to an addiction is insulting and has no psychological basis?

 

[Birdnest]

Forgiveness is usually given, and asked for, afterwards. If I had to forgive someone for being gay while they actively lead such a lifestyle, how is the number of times I've forgiven counted? Is it one for each day I'm forgiving or should my forgiveness cover their entire sinful life? And how does my forgiveness benefit them when I'm not the one who will punish them?

 

[Left Coast]

Forgiveness is usually given, and asked for, afterwards. If I had to forgive someone for being gay while they actively lead such a lifestyle, how is the number of times I've forgiven counted? Is it one for each day I'm forgiving or should my forgiveness cover their entire sinful life? And how does my forgiveness benefit them when I'm not the one who will punish them?

There's nothing to forgive, so personally I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Birdnest]

There's nothing to forgive, so personally I wouldn't worry about it.

Me neither as it's not for me to forgive. It was brought up in the OP though.

 

[Left Coast]

Me neither as it's not for me to forgive. It was brought up in the OP though.

It's not for anyone to forgive, IMO. There's nothing to be forgiven for. It would be like "forgiveness" for being left handed.

 

[MyM]

Then ask God why He makes them.

Well, that you can do yourself. In Islam, everyone is born according to their natural disposition. Maybe some have more of a different hormone or not, but they are not born gay in Islam.

Many people believe otherwise but they have no proof and they have their own reasons to disbelieve that and they are welcomed to them.