-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
horrors of religion
- Thread starter richardlowellt
- Start date
Religion has been an enabler of murder, rape, and other transgressions against people. This does not mean that all transgressions of one person or group against another person or group have been caused by religion. But it certainly seems that religion has been an enabler of such things.
Religion has also been an enabler of much good. It seems to work as an enabler of good for good people and of evil for evil people.
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
Ignoring the problems of religion by sticking your head in the sand will solve very little, but I can see that religion is important to you, so I'll go a bash it elsewhere!!!
ManTimeForgot
Temporally Challenged
Alright Richard enough is enough. Every single institution that man has ever created since the beginning of recorded history has had its share of adherents abuse it towards clearly terrible/evil consequences and its fair share of idiots do something completely stupid in the name of that institution.
The institution of family allowed for the creation of "Vendetta." Therefore family is evil. The institution of capitalism allowed for the creation of predatory credit practices, therefore capitalism is evil. Government allowed for genocides of numerous sorts to occur, therefore government is evil. Science prompted genocide through social darwinism and eugenics practices, therefore science is evil.
The larger the institution the more likely it is that some person of questionable character is going to try and use that institution towards harmful and/or extremely selfish ends. Religion, Government, Family, Money, etc all have been responsible for atrocities of countless number; singling one out over the others is a fallacy unless you can clearly show how religion differs from the others and how that difference specifically leads to greater harm done.
In the absence of religion almost all the great works of art from dark ages through the renaissance would not have existed. The church patronized a large majority of the artists, sculptors, architects, and thinkers of the time. And I suppose you think that in the absence of religion that common-clay people could have been convinced to part with large amounts of their daily income, goods, and/or services to directly fund art or philosophy without religion? Any answer you give other than "No" strongly evidences a bias on your part. And any answer other than "Yes" renders your argument invalid.
Care to take a stab at answering the question?
MTF
The institution of family allowed for the creation of "Vendetta." Therefore family is evil. The institution of capitalism allowed for the creation of predatory credit practices, therefore capitalism is evil. Government allowed for genocides of numerous sorts to occur, therefore government is evil. Science prompted genocide through social darwinism and eugenics practices, therefore science is evil.
The larger the institution the more likely it is that some person of questionable character is going to try and use that institution towards harmful and/or extremely selfish ends. Religion, Government, Family, Money, etc all have been responsible for atrocities of countless number; singling one out over the others is a fallacy unless you can clearly show how religion differs from the others and how that difference specifically leads to greater harm done.
In the absence of religion almost all the great works of art from dark ages through the renaissance would not have existed. The church patronized a large majority of the artists, sculptors, architects, and thinkers of the time. And I suppose you think that in the absence of religion that common-clay people could have been convinced to part with large amounts of their daily income, goods, and/or services to directly fund art or philosophy without religion? Any answer you give other than "No" strongly evidences a bias on your part. And any answer other than "Yes" renders your argument invalid.
Care to take a stab at answering the question?
MTF
And it would have been the same way whether or not religion is involved.
People who are born without the capacity for rational thinking will have a much more difficult time thinking rationally, and our society seems to frown on any sort of difficulty.
And you've just demonstrated your bigotry and willful ignorance of Vaisnavism.
Clearly talking to you is like trying to talk to an evangelical Christian. I have no time for such closed-mindedness.
Śanti
I agree.
I did say that if this man weren't this type of Christian, he would have gotten his daughter to the hospital.
dogsgod
Well-Known Member
What difference would it make what type of Christian? As I pointed out in a previous post,
If God exists, and is a loving God that cares about us, and is all powerful as long as we have faith in Him, then the father of the daughter drew these commonly shared beliefs to their ultimate conclusions and acted on them, with disastrous results. Unfortunately, almost everywhere he may have turned, these beliefs were re-enforced by those that share them.
ManTimeForgot
Temporally Challenged
The difference that it makes is simple. If you are an extremist of any kind of ideology, then you become the equivalent of a moron. Become an extreme social darwinist and you become little better than a genocidal madman.
Also your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow. A loving God that respects the freedom of our will... One that values us learning, growing, and coming to "Him" in our own way... Certainly doesn't sound like the kind of deity which will just come at our beck and call.
In point of fact that was the original meaning behind not taking the "Lord's name in vain." It never had anything to do with saying "God" or "God's name" and everything to do with what you commanded God to do. "God Damn it" is a command to God to damn something. The hubris of commanding God to do anything was what was being prohibited. God is not our servant, our slave, or our on call doctor/repair man. And no one who actually understands the religion of Judaism or Christianity thinks otherwise.
People who believe as corrupt power mongering elites have designed them to after centuries of ideological propaganda and translational gerrymandering may very well end up believing that such nonsense is correct. But that doesn't make it the religion's fault. Even from an objective standpoint the fault lay with the corrupt leaders who have warped the religion to suit their desire for power.
So here again we come to my original argument. At the core of every large institution there is and always has been corrupt individuals abusing it for their own ends throughout human history. Until you can show how religion is different and how this actually makes religion worse than other big institutions there is NO ACTUAL CASE to be made.
MTF
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
I do no such thing. I just don't succumb to bigotry, either.
Good riddance. That's not what this forum is for.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Atheism has been an enabler of horrible things as well - in fact, more people were killed in the name of atheism in the 20th century alone than were killed in the name of Christianity during the Inquisition, witch trials, and Crusades combined.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Indeed.
Me, I think it's silly to blame the worldview for the failings of its adherents. I don't think they're enablers, much less causes. They are, at most, warped into justifications.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Atheism promotes the abolition of absolute values, a closed mind, it encourages the seizure of personal freedoms, promotes genocide, brainwashes the youth, has repeatedly gone to war with those who believe differently, has committed unspeakable horrors of torture in the name of (fill in the blank - Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Mao, Castro, Hoxha, Ceausescu, etc)...well, there's a partial list.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Originally Posted by Jeremiah
Religion did have a hand in this and we shouldn't deny these things and pretend they don't exist or we are as guilty as this couple here.
If all Christians are "guilty by association" then all atheists are also guilty by association of all crimes committed by atheists.
Religion did have a hand in this and we shouldn't deny these things and pretend they don't exist or we are as guilty as this couple here.
If all Christians are "guilty by association" then all atheists are also guilty by association of all crimes committed by atheists.
monta
.
What if we just stick to the 21st century hows the score then ?
Atheists don't believe in the existence of a god.
Azakel
Liebe ist für alle da
So what you want someone to name a religion in which this isn't shown.....??
Let's try Neo-Paganism. Most I know(including myself) are quite open and friendly. Don't hate people just because there different, and just love helping other... does that count. Or are you just going to point out some hateful thing to try and make your point?
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
I hope you're just turning the tables to make a point, Kathryn.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
And UU. And Jainism. And Baha'i....
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Yes - just looking for some consistent reasoning in this morass of pseudo-intellectualism!
LIke I said in an earlier post:
If all Christians are "guilty by association" then all atheists are also guilty by association of all crimes committed by atheists.