How are Jews justified in creating the state of Israel?

[fallingblood]

I cannot simply go to America and pronounce a new state for me and my friends simply because, once upon a time I had some ancestors living there. I would expect America to attack my state and if for some reason they couldnt do it then im sure America's allies would do so on their behalf.

No country is simply evil but Israel's political/military actions are.

As for America protecting Israel well let me ask you this. Why is the vast majority of their military weaponary Amercian? Of course America protects them. Which other states in the middle east have nuclear weapons? Which other states have nuclear weapons, show a blatant disregard for civilian human life and are not under any type of sanctions to disarm their nuclear capability? Or even to merely stop the oppression?

Its not hate speech to say that Israel should not be allowed to oppress those who are simply incappable of defending themselves. Get a grip!

Why does Israel have so many American weapons? Why did Iraq, Iran, etc have our weapons? Because we sold those weapons to them.

What other states in the Middle East have nuclear weapons? Pakistan and India are close enough.

As for defending themselves, that Palestinians have also attacked, and continue to attack Israel. The situation isn't as simple as the Israelis only attacking innocent Palestinians.

I won't address the history of Israel, as other members here have done so very well. I suggest you read what they've said, as it is not as simple as you make it to be.

Finally, there is a difference between criticizing actions of a group, and hate speech. Saying that Israel is evil, a parasite, and labeling everyone Zionists is hate speech.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

No country is simply evil but Israel's political/military actions are.Its not hate speech to say that Israel should not be allowed to oppress those who are simply incappable of defending themselves. Get a grip!

They don't care. They know I'm not hating on Jews. Most of them even know I have Jewish ancestry. They have a political agenda to justify that's more important. I have never seen anything turn Jews against other Jews like Zionism does.

 

[Autodidact]

They don't care. They know I'm not hating on Jews. Most of them even know I have Jewish ancestry. They have a political agenda to justify that's more important. I have never seen anything turn Jews against other Jews like Zionism does.

You just seem awfully slapdash about the facts, considering you seem to have some interest in the subject.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

You just seem awfully slapdash about the facts, considering you seem to have some interest in the subject.

No I know fully well that the Israelis were granted permission by Great Britain to occupy and develop the land. What I don't agree with is the stuff afterward. Like driving the Palestianians all the way to the Gaza Strip and then putting them in living situtations worse then a concentration camp. That's exactly what many have called Gaza who have seen it, a massive concentration camp.

 

[Enoughie]

I cannot simply go to America and pronounce a new state for me and my friends simply because, once upon a time I had some ancestors living there. I would expect America to attack my state and if for some reason they couldnt do it then im sure America's allies would do so on their behalf.

No country is simply evil but Israel's political/military actions are.

Right. But if you go to the U.S. government, ask them for a small piece of land (say in Nevada or something), to establish a state, and they agree to give you that. Wouldn't you have a right to bring whoever you want there?

That is basically what Zionists Jews did (and also what Arabs did). When Britain defeated the Ottoman Empire, during WWI, it received a mandate from the League of Nations over vast territories in the Middle East (including Palestine, Jordan, and Iraq).

Zionists Jews asked the British to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine and received permission in 1917 through the Balfour Declaration, which stated:

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

So what exactly is so evil about this?

They received permission from the government in charge, bought lands, and intended to establish a democracy with equality for the Arab population there. It didn't quite work out the way they intended, because Arab leaders started spreading rumors that Jews are going to conquer the land and rule over them (which ironically became a "self-fulfilling prophecy" once Palestinians started massacring Jews).

At the same time you had the Sharif of Mecca, who asked the British government for the rest of the territories in the Middle East( Syria, Iraq, Jordan, etc.), to be the sole "King of all Arabs"! And he got some of territories he wanted as well!! (His great-grandson is now the ruler of Jordan).

So again, how are Israel's actions evil?


_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Enoughie]

What I don't agree with is the stuff afterward. Like driving the Palestianians all the way to the Gaza Strip and then putting them in living situtations worse then a concentration camp. That's exactly what many have called Gaza who have seen it, a massive concentration camp.

I'm still waiting for your response to this:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...50-post17.html

You gotta stop spreading misinformation at some point, you know..

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Flankerl]

No I know fully well that the Israelis were granted permission by Great Britain to occupy and develop the land. What I don't agree with is the stuff afterward. Like driving the Palestianians all the way to the Gaza Strip and then putting them in living situtations worse then a concentration camp. That's exactly what many have called Gaza who have seen it, a massive concentration camp.

Yeah. Gaza is worse than Auschwitz, Treblinka or Sobibor.
Once a week israeli Einsatzgruppen raid palestinian villages, dragging everyone out let them dig their own graves and then shoot them.
Those that arent shot are sent to the notorious extermination camps were children and old people get murdered on arrival.
Those that arent murdered are used for dangerous work and have a life expectancy for only a few weeks since its even worse than a german extermination/concentration camp.





This is so...

 

[Revoltingest]

And how was that comment different from the U.S. saying that "all options are on the table"?
Is the U.S. also worse than Islamic fundamentalists.
It was a dumb comment, but don't blow it out of proportion.
_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

I don't favor US Mideast policy, so I don't defend it.
Yours was a most incendiary & destructive comment.
I thought my response was diplomatic & less than proportionate.

 

[Tarheeler]

I don't favor US Mideast policy, so I don't defend it.
Yours was a most incendiary & destructive comment.
I thought my response was diplomatic & less than proportionate.

He didn't make the post in question. I believe it was arizol.

 

[Enoughie]

I don't favor US Mideast policy, so I don't defend it.
Yours was a most incendiary & destructive comment.
I thought my response was diplomatic & less than proportionate.

I'm not asking if you're defending U.S. policy. I asked if you think U.S. policy is also "worse than Islamic fundamentalism," because essentially they [the U.S. and the poster] are making the same statement.

Only in one case it is one individual that makes such a statement, and in the other it is a government that actually has the capability to destroy all life on earth many times over.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yeah. Gaza is worse than Auschwitz, Treblinka or Sobibor.
Once a week israeli Einsatzgruppen raid palestinian villages, dragging everyone out let them dig their own graves and then shoot them.
Those that arent shot are sent to the notorious extermination camps were children and old people get murdered on arrival.
Those that arent murdered are used for dangerous work and have a life expectancy for only a few weeks since its even worse than a german extermination/concentration camp.





This is so...

In your sarcasm and disregard for Palestinian life you can't see how similar to the Holocaust what Israel is doing to the Gazans is.

 

[Enoughie]

In your sarcasm and disregard for Palestinian life you can't see how similar to the Holocaust what Israel is doing to the Gazans is.

In your ignorance and hate you don't see that what you're doing is exactly what Goebbels was doing.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Autodidact]

In your sarcasm and disregard for Palestinian life you can't see how similar to the Holocaust what Israel is doing to the Gazans is.

Well, explain it to us.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

In your ignorance and hate you don't see that what you're doing is exactly what Goebbels was doing.

In my ignorance and hate? Hate of what? A political system? Yes I hate a political system. You make it sound as though I were hating an actual person.

I acknowledge the Palestinians are human beings deserving of better treatment then they currently receive from the "Zionist" (not Jewish) government. Yes that makes me hateful

 

[Revoltingest]

He didn't make the post in question. I believe it was arizol.

You're right! Dang it.

I asked if you think U.S. policy is also "worse than Islamic fundamentalism," because essentially they [the U.S. and the poster] are making the same statement.

That's a tough one. The fundies threaten more, but the US is capable of perpetrating more. I don't think "worse" applies.
Moreover, the US gov't is not making the same statement as Arizol, who shows callous disregard for lives of all non-Jews.

 

[Enoughie]

In my ignorance and hate? Hate of what? A political system? Yes I hate a political system. You make it sound as though I were hating an actual person.

I acknowledge the Palestinians are human beings deserving of better treatment then they currently receive from the "Zionist" (not Jewish) government. Yes that makes me hateful

What makes you ignorant and hateful is the fact that you completely ignore the reality, to propagate a perverted view of the situation that is entirely fictitious.

Based on this perverted view you then accuse a people of the most heinous crimes (without having any justification for doing so).

When posters provide you with facts that prove you're wrong you ignore them and continue with your hateful rhetoric.

What exactly makes the Israeli "political system" (ie. democracy) so hateful to you? Aside from what you falsely accuse it of?

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Autodidact]

In my ignorance and hate? Hate of what? A political system? Yes I hate a political system. You make it sound as though I were hating an actual person.

I acknowledge the Palestinians are human beings deserving of better treatment then they currently receive from the "Zionist" (not Jewish) government. Yes that makes me hateful

The Palestianians made a lot of bad choices, which contributed greatly to them being where they are today. The "friends" of the Palestianians, the governments of Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon, exploited and betrayed them, contributing greatly to them being where they are today.

Facts, sen, facts.

 

[Revoltingest]

What makes you ignorant and hateful is the fact that you completely ignore the reality, to propagate a perverted view of the situation that is entirely fictitious.
Based on this perverted view you then accuse a people of the most heinous crimes (without having any justification for doing so).
When posters provide you with facts that prove you're wrong you ignore them and continue with your hateful rhetoric.
What exactly makes the Israeli "political system" (ie. democracy) so hateful to you? Aside from what you falsely accuse it of?

If anything, you're looking a lot more full of hate than he is.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

What makes you ignorant and hateful is the fact that you completely ignore the reality, to propagate a perverted view of the situation that is entirely fictitious.

Tell the Gazans and the people who try to send them aid, who are intercepted by Israel's Navy that it's fiction.

Based on this perverted view you then accuse a people of the most heinous crimes (without having any justification for doing so).

Like I said, prove it's a perverted view. We all see the news and know Israel intercepts Gazan aid and only lets them leave their homes to leave the strip.

When posters provide you with facts that prove you're wrong you ignore them and continue with your hateful rhetoric.

I actually acknowledged that auto-diadect was correct above, if you scroll up. I then stated what exactly I don't agree with.

What exactly makes the Israeli "political system" (ie. democracy) so hateful to you? Aside from what you falsely accuse it of?

Gee I wonder what

 

[Rainbow Mage]

If anything, you're looking a lot more full of hate than he is.

Those who look at it from a pro-Zionist view actually try to justify the inhumane treatment of the Palestinians.