How are these Great Beings explained?

[Evie]

Mo

Like the Seven Day Adventists and their 'prophet' Ellen White. A book called The White Lie questioned her claims.[/QUOTE. More could be said, but a google will open your eyes how 'words of self- proclaimed prophets' are not always what people are led to believe they are.

 

[Evie]

How does this connect to my post?

Do you actually think people pray to statues????

They do because they are led to believe they are making contact with some form of spiritual being.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And just where are you getting this information from? Bahai sources I presume? How about asking a Hindu? Most Hindus I know can close their eyes anywhere and feel a connection to God. We have mantras and prayers right there in our heads. Yes the temple makes it easier, but dependence? That's a stretch.

It seems to me that Bahais are incredibly dependent on the words of their prophet.

With the Catholic-statue thing (not comparing to Hindu) it's physical "object" dependency not worship. For example, a Catholic can pray the rosary without beads but the beads help them meditate on the passion. It's a psychological thing when you have tactile objects to remind oneself of their spiritual faith. The Eucharist is just physical bread and wine. However, I hear stories that even the bread and wine bleed. The people are dependant (the older Catholics) on objects as to help (not replace like @loverofhumanity is saying) their spiritual practices.

No Catholic prays to marble. It's the dependency of physical objects is the key rather than the worship since dependency and worship are two differen things.

Also, with Catholicism, the Catholic Church doesn't teach praying to statues. So, loverofhumanity is basing Catholicism off of a many Catholics who pray in front of statues but not realizing not all people and parishes have statues nor need statues in order to come to Christ.

It's spiritual dependency (nothing wrong with it. Most religions have it via their TLC) it's just people mix up with actual worship.

 

[Evie]

Mo

Exposure of prophets who are not what they claim to be always comes sooner or later. Some even enjoy their time on earth being revered and esteemed by those who believe the claim of such 'prophets'. But the truth always rises to the surface, and has the power to open the eyes of any who are blinded by anything that is false. As I said, google Ellen White and read recent accounts of her claims.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They do because they are led to believe they are making contact with some form of spiritual being.

Catholicism does not teach that. If a Catholic feels marble is a medium to Christ, that's on that particular Catholic but most Catholics pray to Mary in communion with the saints to Christ and Christ only.

Who leads them to believe this? It's not in their Church doctrine, Catechism, nor in their Mass.

 

[Evie]

Catholicism does not teach that. If a Catholic feels marble is a medium to Christ, that's on that particular Catholic but most Catholics pray to Mary in communion with the saints to Christ and Christ only.

Who leads them to believe this? It's not in their Church doctrine, Catechism, nor in their Mass.

So right. Such things are man made dogma. As I see them to be.

 

[Evie]

Exposure of prophets who are not what they claim to be always comes sooner or later. Some even enjoy their time on earth being revered and esteemed by those who believe the claim of such 'prophets'. But the truth always rises to the surface, and has the power to open the eyes of any who are blinded by anything that is false. As I said, google Ellen White and read recent accounts of her claims.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So right. Such things are man made dogma. As I see them to be.

Who leads them to believe this? It's not in their Church doctrine, Catechism, nor in their Mass.

It's not in their dogma (which includes scripture).

 

[Evie]

My words on 'prophets' was in reply to the post saying that some religions depend heavily on the words of their 'prophets'.

 

[Evie]

With the Catholic-statue thing (not comparing to Hindu) it's physical "object" dependency not worship. For example, a Catholic can pray the rosary without beads but the beads help them meditate on the passion. It's a psychological thing when you have tactile objects to remind oneself of their spiritual faith. The Eucharist is just physical bread and wine. However, I hear stories that even the bread and wine bleed. The people are dependant (the older Catholics) on objects as to help (not replace like @loverofhumanity is saying) their spiritual practices.

No Catholic prays to marble. It's the dependency of physical objects is the key rather than the worship since dependency and worship are two differen things.

Also, with Catholicism, the Catholic Church doesn't teach praying to statues. So, loverofhumanity is basing Catholicism off of a many Catholics who pray in front of statues but not realizing not all people and parishes have statues nor need statues in order to come to Christ.

It's spiritual dependency (nothing wrong with it. Most religions have it via their TLC) it's just people mix up with actual worship.

A catholic teaching of the Eucharist is that of actually changing the bread and wine into the physical body and blood of Christ.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Like the Seven Day Adventists and their 'prophet' Ellen White. A book called The White Lie questioned her claims.

We are not Ellen White.

 

[loverofhumanity]

My words on 'prophets' was in reply to the post saying that some religions depend heavily on the words of their 'prophets'.

Yes true as Word of God contains spiritual sustenance and are not just ordinary words.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's dependency. It''s not praying to statues it's just depending on an object to help them spiritually. For example, I have pictures of my grandmothers and great grandmother and family etc. The pictures in and of themselves do nothing (they don't cry or anything like that). However, that space in which I place these pictures, and so forth, and talking in front of the pictures brings me at peace. Anyone can say I am praying to the pictures all because I see them as important. However, like when I prayed in front of the statue of Mary I didn't see a block of marble but in my mind and spirit, it was the Mother of Christ. I wasn't raised religious so I don't have an object-dependency such as the Gohonzon, candles, Eucharist, and so forth.

But after experiencing it, I know the difference between praying-to and praying in-front-of.

All in all, Catholicism does not teach praying to statues. I see people rub Jesus feet. My mother did it when I was in the hospital. They have this huge Jesus statue in the middle of the room. I swear twice that size it would be almost as tall as Statue of Liberty. She's not christian.

So, objects mean things to people and it is physical and spiritual that co-exist.

Whether you disagree or agree isn't my point. Do you understand?

Yes of course I understand. I used to do it myself.

 

[Evie]

We are not Ellen White.

Are all self- proclaimed prophets to be believed simply because of what they say they are? And use 'great swelling words' to cause people to believe them.

 

[Evie]

We are not Ellen White.

Are all self- proclaimed prophets to be believed simply because of what they say they are? And use 'great swelling words' to cause people to believe them.

 

[arthra]

Yes, I've been told that. But then, if you didn't, would you be telling me that? So in reality, I don't actually know, This goes for Bahai in real life too. I plainly don't know.

You'd be free of course to visit some Baha'is if they were in your community or near-by .. I'd encourage you!

 

[Evie]

The

Are all self- proclaimed prophets to be believed simply because of what they say they are? And use 'great swelling words' to cause people to believe them.

The Bible speaks of such 'swelling words'. Look it up. A quick google will get it for you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If talking about religion, yes. Do you understand why I see it that way logically and spiritually?



I can't speak for martyr because I don't agree with needing to die for a religious cause. Since body and spirit are joined, when you take the body, you are harming the spirit's health as well. So, the best we can do is live in body and spirit here on earth as they compliment each other.

Do you understand spiritually what I am saying?

My understanding is the body needs the spirit and cannot exist independently without it but that the spirit can exist independently of the body.

One proof if this is dreams. Sleeping on ones bed with the physical body at rest one can converse, travel, hear see and speak and even travel to distant lands. These are proofs that there is a life within us other than the body and independent of it.

If you dream then you know there are other worlds apart from this one.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A catholic teaching of the Eucharist is is that if actually changing the bread and wine into the physical body and blood of Christ.

The Catholic teaching is that the bread and wine are consecrated to bring present the body of christ via Mass (the body of believers) who worship Christ. It is "when there is more than one, here I am" but Catholics do this by the physical Eucharist. A consecrated meal that people have done in the OT and NT as a means to bring bothers and sisters of christ together.

A catholic teaching of the Eucharist is that of actually changing the bread and wine into the physical body and blood of Christ.

I gave references in #2405 to loverofhumanity of what the Church teaches in regards to statues and the Eucharist.

I was a practicing Catholic and to define what my relationship was with Christ by saying I pray to statues and believing that bread and wine are actually jesus' hair, bones, and dna is strange and an insult to me. Even an indoctrinated person may not get it especially depending on their age. I mean, I went to a Catholic retreat and one lady in her 50s was told not to read her bible. I'm not that old and the parishes I went to promoted bible study. Our parish has a full library.

So, using the people to blame the Church doctrine (which is based on scripture) is not a good way to prove Church teachings are false. You have to use Church doctrine and show where scripture conflicts with it to make me lift an eyebrow.

I read the full bible. I haven't seen a verse that conflict with Catholicism. Christianity is part roman faith. Protestants just broke off from it and disregard what the original Church already had and been practicing for years.

 

[Evie]

Are all self- proclaimed prophets to be believed simply because of what they say they are? And use 'great swelling words' to cause people to believe them.

The Bible speaks of such 'swelling words'. A quick google and you will see it there in God's written Word.