How are these Great Beings explained?

[Evie]

Why do 'religions' feel the need to 'dress up' their beliefs in order to attract (seduce) people into buying into them. Jesus garment was plain and without seam. Scripture states. 'Now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.' John 19: 23

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We all share the atmosphere. That is important shared space. No walls needed for that. Is there a problem applying the same principle to religion?

Actually, yes. Space doesn't need walls. However, I wasn't talking about space like that. I was talking about how the walls create an empty room. Without the walls, there is no space/empty room. You need walls to define it.

It's the same with religion. Without TLC (whether you feel it's from god or from man isn't the point), it shapes how we define our beliefs. You need the walls to define your space. Each person's walls and spaces are different.

I mean, you can have unity Bahai definition by tearing down the walls since they are barriers. However, for unity so everyone agrees, tearing down the walls is counterproductive. You can live without walls. Not many people can. Both of your faiths are defined by god. Not "man made" dogma.

 

[Dawnofhope]

When I practiced, it was more using the statues as memory and reflection tools for lack of better words in order to connect with christ and his father.

It had nothing to do with the cement or block of marble. If Catholics prayed to statues, then you can just set an uncarved block of cement and ask a Catholic to pray to Mary and it should have the same effect since you're focused on the statue and not what the statue represents.

Symbolic? For this instance only, I'd use that term. Only because Catholicism doesn't teach praying to statues. I assume if one does, it's an individual thing not a Catholic-thing.

The issue with "creating images" was when the OT people created them, they one created it as if they knew god's face and two they worshiped it. Catholics only did the first part. The latter just is silly. No Church will tell you they pray to cement or marble.

If such a practice assisted you draw closer to God and Jesus then it seems positive. I'm pray to God, Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, or Jesus without the use of statues and pictures. I can't see any good reason why not to pray to Mary from either a Christian or Baha'i perspective and once again, if that is an assistance in your spiritual life, then you should continue.

I'm pleased to see that you appreciate the symbolic nature of the images you are using.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're completely avoiding my questions.

How does physical death invalidate communication between the body of christ?

Isaiah. 44: 9 & 10. State: 'They that make a graven image are all of them vanity, and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know, that they may be ashamed. Who hath formed a God. Or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing.'

This isn't Catholic doctrine. Statues have no place in worship. It's not a sacrament. It's not the Eucharist. It is not worshiped.

You can quote all day long but the fact is it is not Catholic teaching to worship statues.

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them. CCC​

Isaiah. 44: 9 & 10 Is in the Catholic Bible. This proves that worshiping statues is not Catholic teachings.

Period.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If such a practice assisted you draw closer to God and Jesus then it seems positive. I'm pray to God, Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, or Jesus without the use of statues and pictures. I can't see any good reason why not to pray to Mary from either a Christian or Baha'i perspective and once again, if that is an assistance in your spiritual life, then you should continue.

I'm pleased to see that you appreciate the symbolic nature of the images you are using.

I guess another comparison is how you pray to Bahaullah, a Catholic prays to Joseph. Both of you know either person isn't god himself. Except for Catholics know saints are human and not manifestations of god. That's the difference.

If you two were not alike, you'd worship Christ and his father only. No other person. Especially a manifestation and multiple religions in one.

 

[Evie]

Also, people in the bible who created images did so with the motive of worship and they felt they knew god's face (so they felt they "were god") hence why they were punished.

Catholics, I read Orthodox Catholics say god and the sacraments (and so forth) are considered "mysteries." I haven't heard a Roman Catholic nor priest say that Jesus statue was a representation of the real christ or is christ.

Statues have no significance in Catholic worship/doctrine. It all focuses on the sacraments of christ and the Eucharist that brings everyone together so that christ is present.

Statue worship is the most silliest argument against the church I ever heard.

Yes and against the Second of the Ten Commandments.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why do 'religions' feel the need to 'dress up' their beliefs in order to attract (seduce) people into buying into them. Jesus garment was plain and without seam. Scripture states. 'Now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.' John 19: 23

Religions have always been "dressed up." It's part of the traditions from Jewish on up. It's protestants and new age traditions that strip a lot of traditions away thinking the essence is all one needs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes and against the Second of the Ten Commandments.

Can't be accusing the Church. The Church agrees with you.

Take it up with individual Catholics. I used to be one and putting me under one boat is a great insult. No one worships statues. That is the most silliest argument I've ever heard.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Evie The statue argument is silly. I shake my head every time I hear someone say it because it's calling the Church a lier against their own teachings all because of what some catholics may do that others do not.

So...

How does physical death invalidate communication between the body of christ?

 

[Evie]

Yes

Also, people in the bible who created images did so with the motive of worship and they felt they knew god's face (so they felt they "were god") hence why they were punished.

Catholics, I read Orthodox Catholics say god and the sacraments (and so forth) are considered "mysteries." I haven't heard a Roman Catholic nor priest say that Jesus statue was a representation of the real christ or is christ.

Statues have no significance in Catholic worship/doctrine. It all focuses on the sacraments of christ and the Eucharist that brings everyone together so that christ is present.

Statue worship is the most silliest argument against the church I ever heard.

. And totally against the Second of the Ten Commandments'. The very First being.: 'Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me.' He must have considered making graven images very bad to have placed it second.

 

[CG Didymus]

Haha. That's what's been said for the first generation of rounds on this thread that it doesn't match up.

Yeah, I'm almost caught up. Catholic friends say they've changed a lot since Vatican II. Do you know anything about what got changed?

 

[Evie]

@Evie The statue argument is silly. I shake my head every time I hear someone say it because it's calling the Church a lier against their own teachings all because of what some catholics may do that others do not.

So...

How does physical death invalidate communication between the body of christ?

Scripture states. 'The dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5.

 

[CG Didymus]

Totally unbiblical to pray to Mary. Show me even one word in the Written Word which says so. Jesus, when told His mother and brothers a d sisters were there and wanted to speak to Him. He did not even accord them their desire. Not even Mary caused Him to turn aside to talk to her.

I know somewhere in that Book it says something about honoring your mother and father. So what was Jesus up to by doing that?

 

[Evie]

T

Yeah, I'm almost caught up. Catholic friends say they've changed a lot since Vatican II. Do you know anything about what got changed?

The Pope's throne for one thing.

 

[Evie]

P

I know somewhere in that Book it says something about honoring your mother and father. So what was Jesus up to by doing that?

Perhaps so people in our time would have scriptural evidence to stand on for rejecting the practise of praying to Mary. Solid evidence.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes

. And totally against the Second of the Ten Commandments'. The very First being.: 'Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me.' He must have considered making graven images very bad to have placed it second.

Ok, let's attack the small potatoes. The Bible is the Word of God. There are laws in that Book. They are God's Laws to the Jews. How long were they meant to last? I'm sure there's a quote somewhere that says things like "forever", but Christians did away with them. Even the Commandment about the Sabbath... gone. So how important to Christians are they?

 

[Evie]

Ok, let's attack the small potatoes. The Bible is the Word of God. There are laws in that Book. They are God's Laws to the Jews. How long were they meant to last? I'm sure there's a quote somewhere that says things like "forever", but Christians did away with them. Even the Commandment about the Sabbath... gone. So how important to Christians are they?

The Sabbath is not transgressed by those who believe that JESUS IS THE REST. Belief in Him and the Gospel.

 

[CG Didymus]

P

Perhaps so people in our time would have scriptural evidence to stand on for rejecting the practise of praying to Mary. Solid evidence.

Yes, solid evidence. The NT is solid. It is the rock, yet even Protestants don't agree? I get the feeling that what ever Christian group you belong to believes they have the correct interpretation of the whole Bible. How did they get it? Do they take everything literal? Or, do they have to make some decisions on what some of the more difficult passages and doctrine mean?

 

[Evie]

The Sabbath is not transgressed by those who believe that JESUS IS THE REST. Belief in Him and the Gospel.

Followers of Jesus REST IN HIM.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Sabbath is not transgressed by those who believe that JESUS IS THE REST. Belief in Him and the Gospel.

So that actual time of Friday night to Saturday night is not Biblical anymore? How about what the Bible says to do or not to do on the Sabbath? Those no longer apply? So a Bible Law, a Law from God can change?