How are these Great Beings explained?

[InvestigateTruth]

Honest answer. It didn't directly answer the question since it was a hypothetical and still a question, but...


Not some one needs to try someone new. WE need to try something new. Our religions bring diversity but working together, there is no central foundation such as Bahaullah or Christ (and so forth).

The reason religions like yours and others haven't got to world peace is because there is a you vs. them mentality. It's a (and the example is below) unless you follow this prophet, world peace, salvation, so have you will not happen. If you stay in that mindset, of course greater peace will not come.



I don't know about the Quran. The Bible (in christian eyes) teaches god wants everyone to be saved. That's their definition of world peace. Everyone saved in christ. That' heavily in the gospels, Romans, Hebrew, Acts, and Galations.



No. Each person's world peace contradict each other. Bahai included. It's all convoluted in one big mixing bowl and no one sees it but us non-universalist and non-hiarchist who see religions on an equal level without needing to bring one into another to achieve their own goal.



This above is my central point throughout the whole entire thread.

Religion is individual or community depending on the culture and country where one is from. The worldviews clash in some cases. Bahaullah cannot fix this because that would be taking down diversity to mold other religions into his view of peace.

Now, it's alright that you believe in his one foundation. That's your right. It is just like other religions just Bahai aren't aggressive about it. But not seeing it is very bothersome especially when it involves, once again, cultural appropriation.

Bahaullah does not have the answer. We find the answer. Not one person. It's a joint effort. Not a prophet effort.​

To make the world a better place to live, is through the effort of all humanity. No one will do it for us, we all need to work together. But still we need a universal Teacher, to show us the way. We cannot be like children saying, we do not need education, we do not need teacher, we want to be free, we want to do whatever we like. It never works like that, and that is not the best way, anyways.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, that makes total sense. I mean, I do recognise that I'm a Hindu. I do recognise that a woman is a woman, a man is a man, someone is tall, someone is short, and all that. We're not that stupid, after all. But when it comes to rights, human-ness, and essence, we're all human, and everyone breathes the same air.

It is unfortunate that in reality, this us versus them mentality does permeate so many. One of the core teachings I try to follow is to see Siva in all beings. Yes, it's harder for to see in some folks. But that's why the young soul, old soul idea makes sense to me. It helps explain those differences, but not in a judgemental way.

Thank you. Both the Baha'i and Christian teachings strongly emphasise love, seeing the positives in others and not the negatives, and forgiveness.

The Baha'i writings and example takes it to another level viewing all humanity as one family.

Put into practice the Teaching of Bahá’u’lláh, that of kindness to all nations. Do not be content with showing friendship in words alone, let your heart burn with loving kindness for all who may cross your path.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 15-17

I've just had a Christian on one of my threads post the usual warning of false prophets and a threat of going to hell. I just love the Christians!

The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality

 

[InvestigateTruth]

My question is if you have world peace, why do you need countless revelations? and if Bahaullah isn't the final revelations, whats his teaching worth following than that of Christ and other prophets past, present, and future? Peace is a joint effort not a prophet effort. You'll get nowhere depending on prophets.



You said world peace won't be establish by Bahauallah because there will be someone to replace him in thousands of years to come. World peace shouldn't come and go. If you want peace, shouldn't it last?

No. I don't believe in prophet-faiths. They limit the scope of what humanity, community, and ourselves can do for each other. That, and a prophet that's not alive! I give SGI (Nichiren Buddhist sect) some credit. Their mentor is an actual living person and they are gearing towards the same world peace goal as well. That, and their founder they believe to be a "promised one" if one likes of the original Buddha.

Everyone has their beliefs and claims for world peace, nothing wrong with that. My point is no one else incorporates other religions in their goal but Bahai (so far I know). That's my hang up. Everything else, I just don't believe because I don't believe in god. But that's besides the point.

You are assuming, that once the peace is established on earth, there cannot be anything better than that. I think you see peace, as a final destination on earth. In my view, after world peace, there can be many better things that humanity can achieve. Right now, we are concerned with world peace. When we get to that point, another Manifestation will come and educate us farther to achieve more on the earth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To make the world a better place to live, is through the effort of all humanity. No one will do it for us, we all need to work together. But still we need a universal Teacher, to show us the way. We cannot be like children saying, we do not need education, we do not need teacher, we want to be free, we want to do whatever we like. It never works like that, and that is not the best way, anyways.

I don't agree with that "needing a universal teacher." Even if there was such a thing, it cannot be Bahaullah, Christ, Muhammad, and so forth. Any one teacher being a foundation is crumbling the foundations of other teachers and their definition of world peace to comform to the universal teacher. It won't work.

You need to work together. The joint effort won't be in this lifetime or the next. To me it's completely unrealistic to think there is world peace because we do live and we do die. We won't live forever in this body; so, its best to accept that now. Then your perspective will change to building world peace within yourself without a teacher and branch out to help others do the same. Help other people in their own faith not through yours. If someone is a satanist, help them be a better satanist if he or she is having a crisis in faith. Ask about their faith. Show interest.

These are things taught by The Buddha as being a Bodhisattva and helping others help themselves see enlightenment. It's a community effort. Yes, it has not worked yet but no universal teacher will help because again that's making everyone conform to one universal concept that other religions who are not universalist by their very nature do not share.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are assuming, that once the peace is established on earth, there cannot be anything better than that. I think you see peace, as a final destination on earth. In my view, after world peace, there can be many better things that humanity can achieve. Right now, we are concerned with world peace. When we get to that point, another Manifestation will come and educate us farther to achieve more on the earth.

I don't believe in world peace. It's unrealistic and I'm not a prophet believer. I've learned throughout my spiritual journey that freedom of expression and not limiting myself to one set of teaching lets me learn more about life. To see diversity through some one else's lens is like trying to squeeze a rainbow and still claiming to see the colors.

There are no manifestations. There are prophets of various different and non connecting religions that have their own definition of world peace and how to get there. You'll never hear a christian say "the way we get to world peace in christ is for bahaullah to interpret christ words of salvation so that it will be universal for all people not just brothers and sisters in of the lord."

I believe heavily in Buddhism and in it, there is no world peace but an understanding of suffering, cause, nature of it, and how to end it so we won't go through rebirth (cause/effect) and actually die at peace.

World peace is just not realistic regardless the definition. Religion is an individual and/or community effort that is a lifelong journey not a goal. Those who look at peace as a goal sounds like they are in fear or uncomfortable with death. I read somewhere that some religions actually are set up to have it's followers be comfortable with all the stages of life and death from birth til one's final breathe. I find that beautiful and wish some of us had that same connection. I read they see life as continuous and not something that has a finish line. I believe that as well.

There is no need for prophets in that type of thinking because life all of life is continuous. However we describe it is on us but that's just life. It's not linear. There are no goals in life. Just for us to live it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Honest answer. It didn't directly answer the question since it was a hypothetical and still a question, but...


Not some one needs to try someone new. WE need to try something new. Our religions bring diversity but working together, there is no central foundation such as Bahaullah or Christ (and so forth).

The reason religions like yours and others haven't got to world peace is because there is a you vs. them mentality. It's a (and the example is below) unless you follow this prophet, world peace, salvation, so have you will not happen. If you stay in that mindset, of course greater peace will not come.



I don't know about the Quran. The Bible (in christian eyes) teaches god wants everyone to be saved. That's their definition of world peace. Everyone saved in christ. That' heavily in the gospels, Romans, Hebrew, Acts, and Galations.



No. Each person's world peace contradict each other. Bahai included. It's all convoluted in one big mixing bowl and no one sees it but us non-universalist and non-hiarchist who see religions on an equal level without needing to bring one into another to achieve their own goal.



This above is my central point throughout the whole entire thread.

Religion is individual or community depending on the culture and country where one is from. The worldviews clash in some cases. Bahaullah cannot fix this because that would be taking down diversity to mold other religions into his view of peace.

Now, it's alright that you believe in his one foundation. That's your right. It is just like other religions just Bahai aren't aggressive about it. But not seeing it is very bothersome especially when it involves, once again, cultural appropriation.

Bahaullah does not have the answer. We find the answer. Not one person. It's a joint effort. Not a prophet effort.​

The one element you continully underestimate and omit is influence of the Promised One to unite the religions and establish peace on earth.

The one connection between all the major Faiths is that they all await a Promised One.

When you take the common denominator out of the equation then of course the maths don't add up. The Promised One is the missing link, the Key to unlock unity between all the Faiths.

You said to ask the religionists themselves. Then ask Muslims if they await the Mehdi. Ask Christians if they await the Second Coming. Ask Jews if they aren't waiting for Messiah Ben David? Ask Zoroastrians aren't they awaiting the Promised Shah Bahram? And ask The Vaishnavite Hindus aren't they awaiting Kalki the return of Krishna and the Buddhists Maitreya Amitabha?

Why us the Promised One important to them? Because they await things like world peace and understand that it is unattainable without the Promised One appearing. In symbolic language they are told of a day when the 'wolf and lamb' will lie down together meaning the antagonistic nations and sects. The day when good will triumph over evil. All their hopes and aspirations revolve around His appearance.

We need to uphold this tradition as well as it is one of the most important, if not the most important tradition of all religions, that a Promised One will appear Who will transform this world into a paradise and rise garden.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The one element you continully underestimate and omit is influence of the Promised One to unite the religions and establish peace on earth.

The one connection between all the major Faiths is that they all await a Promised One.

When you take the common denominator out of the equation then of course the maths don't add up. The Promised One is the missing link, the Key to unlock unity between all the Faiths.

You said to ask the religionists themselves. Then ask Muslims if they await the Mehdi. Ask Christians if they await the Second Coming. Ask Jews if they aren't waiting for Messiah Ben David? Ask Zoroastrians aren't they awaiting the Promised Shah Bahram? And ask The Vaishnavite Hindus aren't they awaiting Kalki the return of Krishna and the Buddhists Maitreya Amitabha?

Why us the Promised One important to them? Because they await things like world peace and understand that it is unattainable without the Promised One appearing. In symbolic language they are told of a day when the 'wolf and lamb' will lie down together meaning the antagonistic nations and sects. The day when good will triumph over evil. All their hopes and aspirations revolve around His appearance.

We need to uphold this tradition as well as it is one of the most important, if not the most important tradition of all religions, that a Promised One will appear Who will transform this world into a paradise and rise garden.

I understand that (and read it all). It goes back to the second or third post of this thread. Why not Pagan faiths? LHP? Wiccans? and so forth.

When you unite all religions, that means all religions. When you have a common foundation all religions must agree not just the revealed ones. Bahaullah can still do his job claiming he is the promised ones of say Hindu when Hinduism does not even teach of his presence at all. I can't agree or believe you that it does because I'd believe a Hindu before I believe even myself on the authority and teachings of Hindu scripture.

But you are not getting that these individual religions and religious say that Bahaullah is not in their scriptures. If you claim that it is their teachings you agree with, you have to agree with their followers and their scripture and how their followers interpret scripture. You have to believe in christ only if you want to be christian. If you want to follow Muslim faith, Bahaullah is not a manifestation or an equal or so have you to the creator. Same as the jews.

You can't unite conflicting religions. You work with the people. All people. Come to mutual respect and agreement. Go from there.

No Bahaullah. No Christ as a central foundation. As soon as both Bahais and christian understand that, the better life would be in regards to wars and greater peace for the individual and society as well.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thanks. I wasn't sure. So again you're saying that all religions provide revelations, even though religions like mine clearly say we don't. So who is one to believe?

Any person with a spirit or soul can know God. We cannot judge others, you may be closer to God by your life and deeds than many Baha'is or other religionists with their Holy Books.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

.... Yes, it has not worked yet but no universal teacher will help because again that's making everyone conform to one universal concept that other religions who are not universalist by their very nature do not share.

Different Religions had come for different purpose. That is why previous Religions such as Buddhism, does not seem to be a universal Religion. It is in our time, that the goal of Religion is unity of Mankind. Very old Religions, were concerned with creating families. Later, Religions came to unite people in to tribes. Later on, Islam came to unite people in to countries. In our time, Bahaullah came to teach how to establish Universal Peace and unity of mankind, a Unity that is above every establsihed units, such as tribes or countries. What harm is in this?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I understand that (and read it all). It goes back to the second or third post of this thread. Why not Pagan faiths? LHP? Wiccans? and so forth.

When you unite all religions, that means all religions. When you have a common foundation all religions must agree not just the revealed ones. Bahaullah can still do his job claiming he is the promised ones of say Hindu when Hinduism does not even teach of his presence at all. I can't agree or believe you that it does because I'd believe a Hindu before I believe even myself on the authority and teachings of Hindu scripture.

But you are not getting that these individual religions and religious say that Bahaullah is not in their scriptures. If you claim that it is their teachings you agree with, you have to agree with their followers and their scripture and how their followers interpret scripture. You have to believe in christ only if you want to be christian. If you want to follow Muslim faith, Bahaullah is not a manifestation or an equal or so have you to the creator. Same as the jews.

You can't unite conflicting religions. You work with the people. All people. Come to mutual respect and agreement. Go from there.

No Bahaullah. No Christ as a central foundation. As soon as both Bahais and christian understand that, the better life would be in regards to wars and greater peace for the individual and society as well.

It will take time for them to become fully aware of Who Baha'u'llah is in relation to their Holy Books.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha'i writings and example takes it to another level viewing all humanity as one family.

Yes that is the official position, but with one notable exception, nobody here seems to be able to follow it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Any person with a spirit or soul can know God. We cannot judge others, you may be closer to God by your life and deeds than many Baha'is or other religionists with their Holy Books.

We differ. Yes the possibility is there, but not open to anyone at this very moment. We Hindus believe it's a long long process over many many lifetimes. But once again you're telling me how I think, what Hindus believe.

I don't think you get the difference in approach.

 

[CG Didymus]

They were constantly attacked by the Amalekites over generations. This battle was as a result of constant attacks on th Jews.

Ah, we're talking about prisons. The Hebrews had cities. Other people had cities. So your explanation why God ordered stoning doesn't work. Plus, a person could get stoned for breaking the Sabbath laws, or cursing ones mother and father. Hmmm? Yes, hardened criminals indeed.

And what do the Amalekites have to do with Jericho? Except that God wanted women and children killed along with the men. So, you've made a lot of things symbolic, let's hear how the Baha'is make this symbolic? Or suddenly, the Bible is telling of real historic events?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But it is the most relevant for this age, right?

For about the next 900 years.

 

[Vinayaka]

It will take time for them to become fully aware of Who Baha'u'llah is in relation to their Holy Books.

But what if they don't want to? What if they've taken a really hard look at Bahai, perhaps even been a member, and either decided not to join to start with, after some time in it, just quit. You're making huge erroneous assumptions about all of humanity. Please try hard to get over this odd idea that everyone is coming to Bahai, it will just take time.

 

[Vinayaka]

For about the next 900 years.

In YOUR opinion. Not one that is shared by about 7 billion souls on this planet. Are they all wrong?

 

[Vinayaka]

Different Religions had come for different purpose. That is why previous Religions such as Buddhism, does not seem to be a universal Religion. It is in our time, that the goal of Religion is unity of Mankind. Very old Religions, were concerned with creating families. Later, Religions came to unite people in to tribes. Later on, Islam came to unite people in to countries. In our time, Bahaullah came to teach how to establish Universal Peace and unity of mankind, a Unity that is above every establsihed units, such as tribes or countries. What harm is in this?

There is no harm in having an opinion. But it is an opinion all the same.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But what if they don't want to? What if they've taken a reallh hard look at Bahai, perhaps even been a member, and either decided not to join to start with, after some time in it, just quit. You're making huge erroneous assumptions about all of humanity. Please try hard to get over this odd idea that everyone is coming to Bahai, it will just take time.

Humanity is perfectly free to choose to stay in its cureent condition and state if it wishes to do so.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't agree with that "needing a universal teacher." Even if there was such a thing, it cannot be Bahaullah, Christ, Muhammad, and so forth. Any one teacher being a foundation is crumbling the foundations of other teachers and their definition of world peace to comform to the universal teacher. It won't work.

It is the core principle of all prophet based religions. If only everyone would listen to __________. It's actually quite weird, in my opinion, and reeks of intolerance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In YOUR opinion. Not one that is shared by about 7 billion souls on this planet. Are they all wrong?

What have 7 billion people said?