How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Humanity is perfectly free to choose to stay in its cureent condition and state if it wishes to do so.

Static is impossible. Change is inevitable. History has proven this over and over again. How exactly the changes will occur is anyone's guess. World peace is a wonderful concept, but the idea that it is all tied to the writings of one particular man is just unreasonable, not logical. As I said before, but perhaps you didn't read it, Gandhi has done a way more for world peace than your prophet has.

 

[Vinayaka]

What have 7 billion people said?

I don't follow. Collectively, they've said all kinds of things.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We differ. Yes the possibility is there, but not open to anyone at this very moment. We Hindus believe it's a long long process over many many lifetimes. But once again you're telling me how I think, what Hindus believe.

I don't think you get the difference in approach.

How am I telling you what you believe or think? Once again? This is a bit confusing as my intention is not to tell you what to believe or think.

 

[Vinayaka]

How am I telling you what you believe or think? Once again? This is a bit confusing as my intention is not to tell you what to believe or think.

You said "Any person with a spirit or soul can know God."

I don't believe that, at this moment. I explained why I didn't believe it. So you've assumed the role of teacher. That is what I am getting at. It would come across so much better if you prefaced it with 'I believe', or Bahai's believe. But you're continuously stating Baha belief as just plain fact. It isn't. It is YOUR belief. When you say stuff as though it was fact, it comes across as narrow, intolerant, and condescending, whether you intend it to be that way or not.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes that is the official position, but with one notable exception, nobody here seems to be able to follow it.

Too true. Lets consider Michelangelo then:

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.

 

[Vinayaka]

Too true. Lets consider Michelangelo then:

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.

I like Twain's stuff too.

For example ...
Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
- "The Lowest Animal"

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't follow. Collectively, they've said all kinds of things.

What are you inferring they are saying? If you're saying they don't accept Bahaullah as of yet you're right but the world is fully accepting Baha'u'llah's principles and teachings.

 

[Vinayaka]

What are you inferring they are saying? If you're saying they don't accept Bahaullah as of yet you're right but the world is fully accepting Baha'u'llah's principles and teachings.

This is contradictory.
You are saying people don't accept Baha'u'llah, and then in the very next part you say 'but the world is fully accepting Baha'u'llah's teachings' How confusing!

 

[Dawnofhope]

I like Twain's stuff too.

For example ...
Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
- "The Lowest Animal"

Baha'u'llah would agree:

"Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench."
Baha'u'llah

Eliminating Religious Intolerance

 

[Vinayaka]

Twain was a pretty smart guy. Here's another one.

"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."

 

[CG Didymus]

You are speaking hypothetically but in reality no one has yet established peace so someone has to try something new. As you know, the world's religions have all been around for thousands of years and yet world peace has eluded them all.

Their purpose was not to establish peace which is why you won't find even one verse in the entire Bible or Quran mentioning it.

But in God's latest Revelation world peace is mentioned thousands of times with instructions on how to establish and maintain it.

So when all else has failed why shouldn't we turn to Baha'u'llah?

"Their purpose was not to establish peace" So what then was their purpose?

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you..."

So there's that word, and where is it? It is in the NT. But what kind of peace is Jesus talking about?

 

[Vinayaka]

Baha'u'llah would agree:

"Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench."
Baha'u'llah

Eliminating Religious Intolerance

And yet I see so much intolerance here in this thread. How ironic! Exclusivity, by definition, is intolerance.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Twain was a pretty smart guy. Here's another one.

"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."

If the healing medicine of God's religion doesn't work I can prescribe valium.

 

[Vinayaka]

If the healing medicine of God's religion doesn't work I can prescribe valium.

Unfortunately 'tolerance my way' is still intolerance. I agree with Twain. True tolerance is indifference.

 

[sayak83]

What are you inferring they are saying? If you're saying they don't accept Bahaullah as of yet you're right but the world is fully accepting Baha'u'llah's principles and teachings.

All of them? Surely not. For example polytheists disagree on how many gods there are and atheists, agnostics and most Buddhists do not accept the existence of God. Christians do not accept the principle of continuing emanating and Jews and Muslims consider prophets to be simple humans whom God has favored, nothing else. What is the agreement about? Now do not say world peace! Everyone desires peace before something else takes greater precedence.

Atheists and humanists would say abandoning religion and using logic and empericism as the guide to life will create world peace.

Jainas would say following their dictum of strict non violence and pluralism regarding truth will create world peace.

Buddhists would say the same. They may point to Asoka. SoKaGaKa will go further.

Amish and Quakers would say their way of practicing Christianity, if followed by all will create world peace.

Any Gandhian and would point to undoubted success of ahimsa and satyagraha as tried and true ways to promote peace. Who can deny its impact in India, US, South Africa and now in Myanmar?

I am happy to see that Bahai seek peace and harmony and prioritize it. But what is it that you have that other ideologies I mention do not that supports your claim that only the Bahai can deliver world peace and all of us should acknowledge the primacy of your teachings over others? I do not see anything special here that holds my attention. I mean if everybody followed the Golden rule at all times even then there would be world peace. I can start a follow the golden rule drive and proselytize on that alone correctly claiming, if successful, there would create world peace. So what's so special about your beliefs that would make it the only one that can usher world peace?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Static is impossible. Change is inevitable. History has proven this over and over again. How exactly the changes will occur is anyone's guess. World peace is a wonderful concept, but the idea that it is all tied to the writings of one particular man is just unreasonable, not logical. As I said before, but perhaps you didn't read it, Gandhi has done a way more for world peace than your prophet has.

Yes Ghandhi was a great man of peace.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It will take time for them to become fully aware of Who Baha'u'llah is in relation to their Holy Books.

They do not need bahaullah to guide them (us) to world peace. Understand?

 

[Dawnofhope]

"Their purpose was not to establish peace" So what then was their purpose?

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you..."

So there's that word, and where is it? It is in the NT. But what kind of peace is Jesus talking about?

Inner peace perhaps.

How's this for peace:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Matthew 10:34-36

That's really putting the cat amidst the pigeons, don't you think?

 

[loverofhumanity]

All of them? Surely not. For example polytheists disagree on how many gods there are and atheists, agnostics and most Buddhists do not the existence of God. Christians do not accept the principle of continuing emanating and Jews and Muslims consider prophets to be simple humans whom God has favored nothing else. What is the agreement about? Now do not say world peace! Everyone desires peace before something else takes greater precedence.

I'm talking about the principles and teachings of Baha'u'llah. There are many. You will find that many of His Teachings revealed over a century ago were ahead of His time and thecwirld is still catching up to many of them now.

But this requires a knowledge of what His teachings are.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Unfortunately 'tolerance my way' is still intolerance. I agree with Twain. True tolerance is indifference.

I think we all need to find a way to get on. The world has become smaller (metaphorically) and more multicultural. We need to find a way to make it work whether we like it or not. Sometimes parents need to stop their children from squabbling and tell them to pull themselves together.