How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

The Book of Certitude explains all these concepts. Without having read and reflected on it of course you're going to be confused and perplexed by such seemingly irreconcilable concepts.

Can you explain it without quoting? I can't read the whole Certitude in one siting. It took me almost a year to actually read the bible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's where the Teachers of humanity agree. Yes we can have diversity but we can also have common ground as in such inter-faith gatherings as the Parliament of World Religions for instance.

Most religions have boundaries when it comes to interfaith dialogue. A Christian wouldn't expect a Muslim to be part of his faith. A Buddhist wouldn't expect a Bahai to be part of his faith. Of course, being part of and finding reality in specific faith(s) are choices and realizations that one makes. Interfaith isn't "mixed religions that agree with each other."

All other religions have boundaries and to go beyond those boundaries, you will have to be a practitioner of that faith and/or grown up in the faith and have intimate connection with it in order to see what is appropriate and what is not. If a Hindu is telling you that Bahaullah is not a part of his faith and Bahais consistently say Hinduism (not their version of it, just Hinduism) is, that is total disrespect. That is not "interfaith dialogue" but a one-sided conversation.

When people go to the Religious Conference they don't go to say each person is part of their religion. They go there to find agreement towards a goal without crossing boundaries of each other's faith(s).

The foundation of Bahai is god and his messenger Bahaullah as the promised one of this time from the progressive past appearance of other prophets incorporated into their faith. If Bahais respect other religions, and listen to other religious telling you (and scriptures telling you) that Bahaullah is not in their religion, they would not continue to say what they think about say Hinduism but ask a Hindu what they see about their own faith and Bahaullah in it. I noticed that Christians haven't even replied to this conversation. Usually, they try to defend their faith but I wonder if they just threw their hands up and said this is ridiculous instead. Who knows.

It's not a common thing in America to hear one religion have other religious prophets part of their faith. It's pretty black and white since there is a lot of Christian influence. You'd be lucky to find a Christian denomination that doesn't have a me vs. you mindset regardless how nice they are. Their doctrine Church or protestant is shaped on it. It's not shaped on diversity. No progression.

All teachers do not agree. Bahais are not listening to that. They try to make everything and everyone have something in common. The differences/expressions each religion has are their foundations and they are have nothing in common.

The very fact that Bahaullah is not a Jew precludes him from being any promised one in both Jewish and Christian text and not just the bible but their supplementary texts as well. Muslim says:

The first and foremost rule of being a Muslim is believing in the one and only Allah. Allah is the only god, the only creator and the Almighty. He is the only one you should be doing your good deeds for and the only who shall be worshipped. There should be nothing stood beside His place. Allah's messenger Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger who is believed as the last prophet who came down to Earth and there will never be any prophets after that. Islam considers itself to be the natural way of all creation.​

"I testify that there is no other god but Allah, and Muhammad is God's messenger (prophet)." There are no other forms or messengers that equal or are side by side as prophet or otherwise with the creator.

Interpreting these religions through Bahaullah's eyes is not interfaith dialogue and definitely not respect of each persons faith. @loverofhumanity said thousands of post back that why do we need to ask permission from other faiths when it is from god that Bahaullah sends his message. (Why ask others when it comes from god). Things like that is totally disrespectful.

Bahais as people aren't disrespectful. It's just how your faith is set up that creates a division between other faiths and yours.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Can you explain it without quoting? I can't read the whole Certitude in one siting. It took me almost a year to actually read the bible.

Leave it for a couple of years and when you're in the mood have a look at it. I can't explain it anywhere near as well as Baha'u'llah can and it's the sort of Book you need to give your full attention to.

When I first came across it I read it five times over a few days because it felt like a melody and just captivated my soul.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Leave it for a couple of years and when you're in the mood have a look at it. I can't explain it anywhere near as well as Baha'u'llah can and it's the sort of Book you need to give your full attention to.

When I first came across it I read it five times over a few days because it felt like a melody and just captivated my soul.

I read a lot of books, poetry, and stories that capture my soul. I find reading only books that have the same theme and importance is very limiting in the sacredness of other people's writings outside revealed religions.

Actually christians say the same thing. Read the bible since they can't explain it as well as christ. Makes me wonder why they are christians. They can talk for god, tell about scripture, and quote it but when discussing it it's like they are tongue tied. I don't know if that's the same with you. But it seems like it. What's up with that?

If I believed in Jane doe, I'd be singing his song in my voice and her voice over the hill tops and swimming in the sea of peace. I wouldn't want to shut up explaining who she is and so forth. Thats what love does. It makes you express yourself and express it to others. It's alright to quote, but where is your voice?

 

[Vinayaka]

When people go to the Religious Conference they don't go to say each person is part of their religion. They go there to find agreement towards a goal without crossing boundaries of each other's faith(s).

So important. Some days I think people are far more concerned about other faiths than they are of their own. It's that constant looking outward gaze, pointing fingers, looking for external changes, seeking approval, proselytizing.

Critics of the Bible know the Bible better than the people of the Bible.

The reality is you can only change yourself.

 

[Vinayaka]

We're all human and prone to misinterpreting and misunderstanding sacred writings regardless of our religion or background, including Baha'is.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but it really didn't address my specific issue, as perhaps I hadn't explained it well. Some day when I have time, I might try again.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Most religions have boundaries when it comes to interfaith dialogue. A Christian wouldn't expect a Muslim to be part of his faith. A Buddhist wouldn't expect a Bahai to be part of his faith. Of course, being part of and finding reality in specific faith(s) are choices and realizations that one makes. Interfaith isn't "mixed religions that agree with each other."

All other religions have boundaries and to go beyond those boundaries, you will have to be a practitioner of that faith and/or grown up in the faith and have intimate connection with it in order to see what is appropriate and what is not. If a Hindu is telling you that Bahaullah is not a part of his faith and Bahais consistently say Hinduism (not their version of it, just Hinduism) is, that is total disrespect. That is not "interfaith dialogue" but a one-sided conversation.

When people go to the Religious Conference they don't go to say each person is part of their religion. They go there to find agreement towards a goal without crossing boundaries of each other's faith(s).

The foundation of Bahai is god and his messenger Bahaullah as the promised one of this time from the progressive past appearance of other prophets incorporated into their faith. If Bahais respect other religions, and listen to other religious telling you (and scriptures telling you) that Bahaullah is not in their religion, they would not continue to say what they think about say Hinduism but ask a Hindu what they see about their own faith and Bahaullah in it. I noticed that Christians haven't even replied to this conversation. Usually, they try to defend their faith but I wonder if they just threw their hands up and said this is ridiculous instead. Who knows.

It's not a common thing in America to hear one religion have other religious prophets part of their faith. It's pretty black and white since there is a lot of Christian influence. You'd be lucky to find a Christian denomination that doesn't have a me vs. you mindset regardless how nice they are. Their doctrine Church or protestant is shaped on it. It's not shaped on diversity. No progression.

All teachers do not agree. Bahais are not listening to that. They try to make everything and everyone have something in common. The differences/expressions each religion has are their foundations and they are have nothing in common.

The very fact that Bahaullah is not a Jew precludes him from being any promised one in both Jewish and Christian text and not just the bible but their supplementary texts as well. Muslim says:

The first and foremost rule of being a Muslim is believing in the one and only Allah. Allah is the only god, the only creator and the Almighty. He is the only one you should be doing your good deeds for and the only who shall be worshipped. There should be nothing stood beside His place. Allah's messenger Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger who is believed as the last prophet who came down to Earth and there will never be any prophets after that. Islam considers itself to be the natural way of all creation.​

"I testify that there is no other god but Allah, and Muhammad is God's messenger (prophet)." There are no other forms or messengers that equal or are side by side as prophet or otherwise with the creator.

Interpreting these religions through Bahaullah's eyes is not interfaith dialogue and definitely not respect of each persons faith. @loverofhumanity said thousands of post back that why do we need to ask permission from other faiths when it is from god that Bahaullah sends his message. (Why ask others when it comes from god). Things like that is totally disrespectful.

Bahais as people aren't disrespectful. It's just how your faith is set up that creates a division between other faiths and yours.

But if we are honest and telling the truth and the Promised One of all religions has come then this is good news for them.

When they accepted their Faith they knew that one day the Promised Christ or Mehdi would appear. So that is part and parcel of their Faith to accept Him when He appears.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I read a lot of books, poetry, and stories that capture my soul. I find reading only books that have the same theme and importance is very limiting in the sacredness of other people's writings outside revealed religions.

Actually christians say the same thing. Read the bible since they can't explain it as well as christ. Makes me wonder why they are christians. They can talk for god, tell about scripture, and quote it but when discussing it it's like they are tongue tied. I don't know if that's the same with you. But it seems like it. What's up with that?

If I believed in Jane doe, I'd be singing his song in my voice and her voice over the hill tops and swimming in the sea of peace. I wouldn't want to shut up explaining who she is and so forth. Thats what love does. It makes you express yourself and express it to others. It's alright to quote, but where is your voice?

It's a spiritual thing. I can't convey the spirit of Baha'u'llah's Words as His Words are the Word of God and have hidden spiritual power whereas my words do not possess that spiritual potency.

Hearing it from Baha'u'llah and me are two entirely different experiences.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But if we are honest and telling the truth and the Promised One of all religions has come then this is good news for them.

When they accepted their Faith they knew that one day the Promised Christ or Mehdi would appear. So that is part and parcel of their Faith to accept Him when He appears.

In Islam it is blank and white:

The first and foremost rule of being a Muslim is believing in the one and only Allah. Allah is the only god, the only creator and the Almighty. He is the only one you should be doing your good deeds for and the only who shall be worshipped. There should be nothing stood beside His place. Allah's messenger Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger who is believed as the last prophet who came down to Earth and there will never be any prophets after that. Islam considers itself to be the natural way of all creation.

Bahaullah is not included as a prophet in Islam.

"I testify that there is no other god but Allah, and Muhammad is God's messenger (prophet)." There are no other forms or messengers that equal or are side by side as prophet or otherwise with the creator."

Bahallauh is not a messenger, equal to god, manifestation of god, and thus promised one in the Islamic faith. @FearGod and I right in saying so?

There is no when they accept. Their faith (and all others) are relevant for today as it was in the past and will be in the future. What you believe is your belief. It's not a fact. Unless you say that you are seeing your version of these faiths, I will continue to say that these religions do not support any of your claims of Bahaullah being the promised one. In Christianity, Bahaullah is not a Jew (nor Roman for that matter). In Islam, no person is equal to god. No one is a manifestation of god not even Muhammad. The Buddha and Maitreya do not believe in god and cannot, by the very Dharma, be messengers or manifestations of Bahaullah. Bahaullah is not a manifestation of Krishna. That's silly.

It's your belief but it's not a fact.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hearing it from Baha'u'llah and me are two entirely different experiences.

Unless you believe the words of Bahaullah is of god (a form of idolism in my opinion), I can only read it as an outsider. Many books influence me but I'm not a prophet-believer. I do not believe god exist. My interpretation would not be the same.

I rather talk with a believer. It puts more umph into the conversation. But I value freedom of expression. I get confused when anyone depends on a book to express their passion. I don't understand that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In Islam it is blank and white:

The first and foremost rule of being a Muslim is believing in the one and only Allah. Allah is the only god, the only creator and the Almighty. He is the only one you should be doing your good deeds for and the only who shall be worshipped. There should be nothing stood beside His place. Allah's messenger Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger who is believed as the last prophet who came down to Earth and there will never be any prophets after that. Islam considers itself to be the natural way of all creation.

Bahaullah is not included as a prophet in Islam.

"I testify that there is no other god but Allah, and Muhammad is God's messenger (prophet)." There are no other forms or messengers that equal or are side by side as prophet or otherwise with the creator."

Bahallauh is not a messenger, equal to god, manifestation of god, and thus promised one in the Islamic faith. @FearGod and I right in saying so?

There is no when they accept. Their faith (and all others) are relevant for today as it was in the past and will be in the future. What you believe is your belief. It's not a fact. Unless you say that you are seeing your version of these faiths, I will continue to say that these religions do not support any of your claims of Bahaullah being the promised one. In Christianity, Bahaullah is not a Jew (nor Roman for that matter). In Islam, no person is equal to god. No one is a manifestation of god not even Muhammad. The Buddha and Maitreya do not believe in god and cannot, by the very Dharma, be messengers or manifestations of Bahaullah. Bahaullah is not a manifestation of Krishna. That's silly.

It's your belief but it's not a fact.

Muslims await the Mahdi and the return of Christ. So they await two Messengers.

Mahdi - Wikipedia

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unless you believe the words of Bahaullah is of god (a form of idolism in my opinion), I can only read it as an outsider. Many books influence me but I'm not a prophet-believer. I do not believe god exist. My interpretation would not be the same.

I rather talk with a believer. It puts more umph into the conversation. But I value freedom of expression. I get confused when anyone depends on a book to express their passion. I don't understand that.

What about poetry and prose?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Muslims await the Mahdi and the return of Christ. So they await two Messengers.

Mahdi - Wikipedia

Bahaullah is not a manifestation in Islam. No one is equal to god. No other prophets.

Yes, Mahdi and Christ not Bahaullauh.

Respect their boundaries. If you have Islam in your faith, listen to Muslims not Bahaullah. No Muslim would but Christ and any other prophet as god's equal.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What about poetry and prose?

You have to read my posts.

I read a lot of books, poetry, and stories that capture my soul. I find reading only books that have the same theme and importance is very limiting in the sacredness of other people's writings outside revealed religions.

I'm not a prophet-believer and I don't believe in god. I rather talk with the believer. My interpretation will not be influenced by god. Bahaullah says beautiful things but they don't affect my spiritual insight. Testimony and conversation does. I value freedom of expression and seeing people express their passion in their voice.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Bahaullah is not a manifestation in Islam. No one is equal to god. No other prophets.

Yes, Mahdi and Christ not Bahaullauh.

Respect their boundaries. If you have Islam in your faith, listen to Muslims not Bahaullah. No Muslim would but Christ and any other prophet as god's equal.

And how will people identify Them as nobody has seen Christ or the Mehdi?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Bahaullah is not a manifestation in Islam. No one is equal to god. No other prophets.

Yes, Mahdi and Christ not Bahaullauh.

Respect their boundaries. If you have Islam in your faith, listen to Muslims not Bahaullah. No Muslim would but Christ and any other prophet as god's equal.

How come Muslims include Moses and Jesus in their religion?They also include the Torah and Gospels as a part of their belief. They haven't asked permission.

 

[Vinayaka]

But if we are honest and telling the truth and the Promised One of all religions has come then this is good news for them.

This is YOUR opinion. Millions of people don't believe in a promised one. How can something irrelevant to them be good news. More like 'no news'.

 

[Vinayaka]

How come Muslims include Moses and Jesus in their religion?They also include the Torah and Gospels as a part of their belief. They haven't asked permission.

There are thousands of cultures outside of Abrahamism. To think that what happened in one small location on this planet is for the entire planet is just folly. Does a volcano erupting in Java bury a city in Italy?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And how will people identify Them as nobody has seen Christ or the Mehdi?

Christ has already been recognized twice. Once as a human and the other time as spirit through a prophet Elijah, I believe. I don't know about Mehdi. You're not giving religions credit nor respecting the accuracy of their religions regardless if you disagree.

You didn't address my points. I ask you question and make points and you're telling me the same thing. Do you understand what I mean by boundaries and respect?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How come Muslims include Moses and Jesus in their religion?They also include the Torah and Gospels as a part of their belief. They haven't asked permission.

Islam is an abrahamic religion. Their faith stems from Abraham. They have the right to because their religion is founded on the god of Abraham. Bahai doesn't have the progression from any prophets in scripture. Bahaullah is not a Jew nor is he the "chosen people." He's not a child of christ. He isn't a Hindu. He isn't a Buddhist. He has no right to say anything about faiths he is not a part of regardless if he agrees on surface level with their goals of world peace and so forth. Practice is more intimate than theology and gleaming over text that one isnt' physically a part of.

In terms of beliefs, a Muslim must believe in all of the Prophets. This includes not just Prophet Ibrahim, but his sons Ismail, Ishaq, his grandson Yaqub and of course his descendant Prophet Muhammad.
~Sound Vision​

I don't agree with cultural appropriation but at least their view makes sense given it's based off the god of Abraham and they believe they are children of Abraham and so forth. There is no Krishna and Maitreya in their faith, though. That's the difference.

If they used Krishna in their religion, yes, they would need "permission."

Do you understand what I mean by permission, boundaries, and mutual respect?