How are these Great Beings explained?

[InvestigateTruth]

Bahai doesn't have the progression from any prophets in scripture.

Simply incorrect.


"Bahá'u'lláh was born on 12 November 1817, in Tehran, the capital of Persia, present-day Iran. Bahá'í authors state that his ancestry can be traced back to Abraham through Abraham's wife Keturah,[3] to Zoroaster and to Yazdgerd III, the last king of the Sassanid Empire,[4] and also to Jesse.[5][6] "

Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Simply incorrect.


"Bahá'u'lláh was born on 12 November 1817, in Tehran, the capital of Persia, present-day Iran. Bahá'í authors state that his ancestry can be traced back to Abraham through Abraham's wife Keturah,[3] to Zoroaster and to Yazdgerd III, the last king of the Sassanid Empire,[4] and also to Jesse.[5][6] "

Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia

Thank you. Though it doesn't address the point of the statement.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Christ has already been recognized twice. Once as a human and the other time as spirit through a prophet Elijah, I believe. I don't know about Mehdi. You're not giving religions credit nor respecting the accuracy of their religions regardless if you disagree.

You didn't address my points. I ask you question and make points and you're telling me the same thing. Do you understand what I mean by boundaries and respect?

The Christians who saw Him 2,000 years ago have all passed away.

There are signs given in the Bible as to how to recognise Him when He returns.

Respect, yes of course for all Faiths and their Holy Books and followers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Christians who saw Him 2,000 years ago have all passed away.

There are signs given in the Bible as to how to recognise Him when He returns.

Respect, yes of course for all Faiths and their Holy Books and followers.

Do you understand what I mean by mutual respect, boundaries, and permission?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If they used Krishna in their religion, yes, they would need "permission."

You are assuming that Bahai Faith is not a Revelation from God. In Bahai View, it is from God. God does not need permission from anyone. Do you see this?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Islam is an abrahamic religion. Their faith stems from Abraham. They have the right to because their religion is founded on the god of Abraham. Bahai doesn't have the progression from any prophets in scripture. Bahaullah is not a Jew nor is he the "chosen people." He's not a child of christ. He isn't a Hindu. He isn't a Buddhist. He has no right to say anything about faiths he is not a part of regardless if he agrees on surface level with their goals of world peace and so forth. Practice is more intimate than theology and gleaming over text that one isnt' physically a part of.

In terms of beliefs, a Muslim must believe in all of the Prophets. This includes not just Prophet Ibrahim, but his sons Ismail, Ishaq, his grandson Yaqub and of course his descendant Prophet Muhammad.
~Sound Vision​

I don't agree with cultural appropriation but at least their view makes sense given it's based off the god of Abraham and they believe they are children of Abraham and so forth. There is no Krishna and Maitreya in their faith, though. That's the difference.

If they used Krishna in their religion, yes, they would need "permission."

Do you understand what I mean by permission, boundaries, and mutual respect?

You've been criticising me harshly for including Christianity and Islam and Judaism in our Faith yet Baha'u'llah is descended from two of Abraham's wives Sarah and Katurah so with regards to Christianity, Islam and Judaism included in His Faith why don't you accord Him the same rights?

He was also a descendent of Zoroaster Whose Faith is included.

Of course I understand respect and boundaries but I am having great difficulty understanding your interpretation of it as it does not seem to make sense the way you put it.

You seem to be excluding my right to freedom of thought and worship when you maintain we must get permission from others to freely believe. That sounds more like the kind of oppression of human rights they use against the Baha'is in Iran.

No one can insist on anyone else asking permission from another person to think or believe.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are assuming that Bahai Faith is not a Revelation from God. In Bahai View, it is from God. God does not need permission from anyone. Do you see this?

No. I respect people regardless of what god(s) I may or may not believe in. I'm not a dominate faith person and definitely not a hierarchy person. The concept of god is foreign to me and I don't even know what a god is nonetheless who.

So, no. I don't agree with overstepping other people's permission or acceptance to take their faith and interpretation of it because you got it from god. That's disrespecting all the revealed faiths. Even more so Buddhism when you are telling a Buddhist that their "promised one" comes from God and so forth and they correct you but you don't take their correction (aka permission if you accept their correction) into consideration rather than overriding their opinion for god.

If you really believed in christianity, can you drop your faith in god for the welfare of another?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

No. I respect people regardless of what god(s) I may or may not believe in. I'm not a dominate faith person and definitely not a hierarchy person. The concept of god is foreign to me and I don't even know what a god is nonetheless who.

So, no. I don't agree with overstepping other people's permission or acceptance to take their faith and interpretation of it because you got it from god. That's disrespecting all the revealed faiths. Even more so Buddhism when you are telling a Buddhist that their "promised one" comes from God and so forth and they correct you but you don't take their correction (aka permission if you accept their correction) into consideration rather than overriding their opinion for god.

In Bahai view, God made a favour and revealed the correct interpretations of Holy Scriptures. He does not leave people in ignorance, just because some of them do not like God to speak to humanity. As a matter of fact, Bahai Faith had many enemies from beginning of its Revelation. Perhaps because they did not like Bahaullah to reveal the truth. That is why they killed the Bab, and about 20000 of His followers, and imprisoned and exiled Bahaullah for 40 years. They have been writing many books against the Bab and Bahaullah, trying to refute Their claim. Despite all these efforts, they failed miserably to refute and stop Bahai Revelation. Bahais see this, as power of God.

If you really believed in christianity, can you drop your faih in god for the welfare of another?

As a Bahai, I believe Jesus was a Manifestation of God, and Bible is inspired by God. I see bible pointing to the Revelation of Bahaullah. Bahaullah taught that, the best way to serve mankind is through the guidance that came from God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You've been criticising me harshly for including Christianity and Islam and Judaism in our Faith yet Baha'u'llah is descended from two of Abraham's wives Sarah and Katurah so with regards to Christianity, Islam and Judaism included in His Faith why don't you accord Him the same rights?

He was also a descendent of Zoroaster Whose Faith is included.

Of course I understand respect and boundaries but I am having great difficulty understanding your interpretation of it as it does not seem to make sense the way you put it.

You seem to be excluding my right to freedom of thought and worship when you maintain we must get permission from others to freely believe. That sounds more like the kind of oppression of human rights they use against the Baha'is in Iran.

No one can insist on anyone else asking permission from another person to think or believe.

I'll give an example. I went to a Hindu temple a year ago. I'm familiar with taking off my shoes and the reverence to the incarnations, gods, and goddesses in a general way. I came in late but they let me join them in Puja. So, I sat, without knowing any of the Hindu language and the priest, once finished, asked me about myself. So we talked (with someone with roughly some English knowledge). Then they gave me a red string around my wrist. Here is my little visit here in this Hindu DIR. They gave me a lot of fruits. It was a feast for a goddess I can't remember her name. I stayed for a good hour. The temple looks big on the outside but tiny once you go in.

If I came in and told them that Krishna or the goddess they were paying respect to is part of my faith, say Christianity, and that Christ from god predicted that the goddess one of the many manifestations of Bahaullah who is sent by god, if they were familiar with English and American culture, that is a huge insult their faith. To tell them what they believe is part of your faith is rude.

Yes, you can say "this is our interpretation of the Hindu faith" that's fine.

However, you did not say that. @adrian009 actually was the only one who agrees to interpret christianity from a Bahai point of view. He does not claim his view is christianity as mainstream would see it.

On the other hand, you are saying "Krishna (not our interpretation of Krishna) is a part of your faith) It's literally misrepresenting a Hindu god through the view of Bahaullah and the god you believe in which is not at all the same as Brahman, Vishnu, and Krishna as far as I can tell.

Respecting is my going into the temple and accepting the string around my wrist. It's literally saying you are right and I am wrong because I am not a Hindu and I have no right in my religion and/or in my opinion to say otherwise. It is literally saying that I will not cross your boundaries by your faith in mine-Krishna is not a manifestation of god because you do not believe that so why should I? If I claim to have Krishna and HInduism in my faith, then don't see it through Bahaullah's eyes, see it through a Hinduis.

I've been asking "how can god be a manifestation of god?" Krishna shouldn't even be part of the manifestations nor should The Buddha.

Yes, your faith interprets other faiths through Bahaullah's eyes and through your own post you do not respect other religions because you feel god has the final say. Whose god? Christ? Brahman? Any creator?

I just don't respect that you have other belief prophets in your faith without you having the correct views of their faith not through an interpretation of yours. I can't agree with that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As a Bahai, I believe Jesus was a Manifestation of God, and Bible is inspired by God. I see bible pointing to the Revelation of Bahaullah. Bahaullah taught that, the best way to serve mankind is through the guidance that came from God.

That doesn't answer the question. Can you drop your religion and belief in god for the welfare of another?

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is YOUR opinion. Millions of people don't believe in a promised one. How can something irrelevant to them be good news. More like 'no news'.

Yes definitely.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There are thousands of cultures outside of Abrahamism. To think that what happened in one small location on this planet is for the entire planet is just folly. Does a volcano erupting in Java bury a city in Italy?

Why not? The Ten Commandments became universal laws.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why not? The Ten Commandments became universal laws.

No it's not. The first through fifth commandments alone are not universal.
Committing adultery depends on the culture and people. It's not a "natural" sin. People have columbines legally. There are many people legally and morally practicing adultery.

Each culture honors their parents differently. Some considered it dishonorable for a child to look his or her parents in the eyes. American culture, we're taught to look eye to eye because it develops a bond between two parties. Some cultures find it dishonorable for the daughter to move out without getting married. American culture we leave at 18 years old or so to be "independent" as our parents told us to be growing up. Not every religion if not 99 percent of them know anything about the Sabbath day.

The ten commandments are not universal. You can try "thou shall not kill" but people kill "legally" all the time. Only abrahamics seem to be bothered with taking god's name in vain. For other people, it's a word ingraved in our culture that now is sometimes used as a statement of shock "oh my god! I can't believe that happened."

Then you have the rest of the commandments.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That doesn't answer the question. Can you drop your religion and belief in god for the welfare of another?

Your question is incorrect to begin with. You are assuming that, there could be a situation when, to work for the welfare of another, we would need to drop our belief in God. There is no such a situation. Bahais believe to love everyone, because everyone is created by God and that includes those who disagree with us, and even our enemies. But if you do not believe in God, whenever you see someone disagrees or perhaps you think he is against you, would you still be kind to them or love them? If yes, why? For what reason?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

. The concept of god is foreign to me and I don't even know what a god is nonetheless who.

No problem. Let me offer you something that even the concept of God is foreign to you, it should still make sense, and that suggestion is this:

Instead of using the word 'God', use the word 'Truth'. I am sure concept of Truth is not foreign to you.
'Truth' does not care people like it or not. It does not care people think that 'Truth' is disrespectful to them. Truth is Truth. Truth is like the Sun. Every morning appears again, regardless if people like it or not. That is how the Manifestations of Truth are. They appear from Age to Age, just as the Sun that appears every Morning. It appeared once in the person of Krishna, in another time, in Person of Moses, another Day on person of Jesus,....and Now in the Person of Bahaullah. The Truth is the living Truth. It is not dead.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'll give an example. I went to a Hindu temple a year ago. I'm familiar with taking off my shoes and the reverence to the incarnations, gods, and goddesses in a general way. I came in late but they let me join them in Puja. So, I sat, without knowing any of the Hindu language and the priest, once finished, asked me about myself. So we talked (with someone with roughly some English knowledge). Then they gave me a red string around my wrist. Here is my little visit here in this Hindu DIR. They gave me a lot of fruits. It was a feast for a goddess I can't remember her name. I stayed for a good hour. The temple looks big on the outside but tiny once you go in.

If I came in and told them that Krishna or the goddess they were paying respect to is part of my faith, say Christianity, and that Christ from god predicted that the goddess one of the many manifestations of Bahaullah who is sent by god, if they were familiar with English and American culture, that is a huge insult their faith. To tell them what they believe is part of your faith is rude.

Yes, you can say "this is our interpretation of the Hindu faith" that's fine.

However, you did not say that. @adrian009 actually was the only one who agrees to interpret christianity from a Bahai point of view. He does not claim his view is christianity as mainstream would see it.

On the other hand, you are saying "Krishna (not our interpretation of Krishna) is a part of your faith) It's literally misrepresenting a Hindu god through the view of Bahaullah and the god you believe in which is not at all the same as Brahman, Vishnu, and Krishna as far as I can tell.

Respecting is my going into the temple and accepting the string around my wrist. It's literally saying you are right and I am wrong because I am not a Hindu and I have no right in my religion and/or in my opinion to say otherwise. It is literally saying that I will not cross your boundaries by your faith in mine-Krishna is not a manifestation of god because you do not believe that so why should I? If I claim to have Krishna and HInduism in my faith, then don't see it through Bahaullah's eyes, see it through a Hinduis.

I've been asking "how can god be a manifestation of god?" Krishna shouldn't even be part of the manifestations nor should The Buddha.

Yes, your faith interprets other faiths through Bahaullah's eyes and through your own post you do not respect other religions because you feel god has the final say. Whose god? Christ? Brahman? Any creator?

I just don't respect that you have other belief prophets in your faith without you having the correct views of their faith not through an interpretation of yours. I can't agree with that.

The Baha'i agrees with the view which unites. The basic foundations of each religion have many things in common.

Ok, you can't agree that we have a view of other prophets in our Faith that is to you 'not correct.'

So which view of the thousands of sects of all these religions is the correct version?

 

[loverofhumanity]

No it's not. The first through fifth commandments alone are not universal.
Committing adultery depends on the culture and people. It's not a "natural" sin. People have columbines legally. There are many people legally and morally practicing adultery.

Each culture honors their parents differently. Some considered it dishonorable for a child to look his or her parents in the eyes. American culture, we're taught to look eye to eye because it develops a bond between two parties. Some cultures find it dishonorable for the daughter to move out without getting married. American culture we leave at 18 years old or so to be "independent" as our parents told us to be growing up. Not every religion if not 99 percent of them know anything about the Sabbath day.

The ten commandments are not universal. You can try "thou shall not kill" but people kill "legally" all the time. Only abrahamics seem to be bothered with taking god's name in vain. For other people, it's a word ingraved in our culture that now is sometimes used as a statement of shock "oh my god! I can't believe that happened."

Then you have the rest of the commandments.

Regardless, many of them were laws that could be and were applied universally. We cannot say that the law thou shalt not kill belongs only to the Jews so therefore it's ok for us to go around killing.

Common sense tells us that these laws spread universally and affected all humanity and we can't say they are not beneficial to all humanity.

The point is that we can all use and share these laws if we find them useful and many are still being used today.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christianity: Only Christ

I used Vishnu to keep it simple. There's a tie between the Hindu, Vishnu, and Brahman.

Bahai: Bahaullah and then the other prophets hooked together.

See that number one is only christ. There are no ties to Bahaullah. No promised one that's Bahaullah. It's between Christ and god in the NT and the old testement prophets. No one else.

The second one Brahman if I'm not mistaken is all. Hindu isn't a prophet faith. See how it goes in a circle.

Bahai faith is somewhat like christianity except for in christianity, it only goes to christians. In Bahai it goes through Bahaullah to other religions and tries to hook them together where the other two diagrams don't match.

This is where everything goes wrong. You can either see it the way you want to see it and don't claim the religions as Hinduism, Buddhist, oooh forgot buddhist

as your own or let these religions be because their diagrams do not fit yours.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No problem. Let me offer you something that even the concept of God is foreign to you, it should still make sense, and that suggestion is this:

Instead of using the word 'God', use the word 'Truth'. I am sure concept of Truth is not foreign to you.
'Truth' does not care people like it or not. It does not care people think that 'Truth' is disrespectful to them. Truth is Truth. Truth is like the Sun. Every morning appears again, regardless if people like it or not. That is how the Manifestations of Truth are. They appear from Age to Age, just as the Sun that appears every Morning. It appeared once in the person of Krishna, in another time, in Person of Moses, another Day on person of Jesus,....and Now in the Person of Bahaullah. The Truth is the living Truth. It is not dead.

Thank you for simplifying it a bit more. I was talking to loverofhumanity about more than one truth. I believe there is more than one truth and that everyone has their individual truth as I have mine. My truth (or how I see reality) is my expression and what I do daily. It's not yours or anyone else's. So when someone says there is one truth, that, to me, limits many expressions under one foundation.

In this case, truth is an expression and is ourselves. So truths change. They shape. They are not static. So I can't compare it to the sun because we have hope the earth will turn so the sun can rise and set. But truth doesn't work that way. It work with us not separate from us. We can personify it by saying they are manifestations but that depends on the persons religion. It's not one truth. It's more than one.

How can there be one truth? There is the sun, the moon, the earth, the stars. So I would say each prophet is its own truth. There is no connection on an inner level because the foundations are drastically different. Their view of world peace is different as well as their practices and interpretation there of.

It's like trying to make the moon, the sun and the sun, the stars all because they work together. But that doesnt mean there is one truth all because we are one humanity. World peace come with agreement of diverse truth. We aren't taking away other people's truths to make one foundation but having a mutual understanding and respect that we won't overstep each others boundaries while making world peace.

I understand what you're saying now in respect of the connection. I don't understand one truth though.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Vinayaka corrected you on a lot of different Hindu teachings. Will you take his views into consideration or override it with yours?

So which view of the thousands of sects of all these religions is the correct version?

Why ask, really? If you're not Hindu (someone who practice and identifies as Hindu not theological study and same goals) it does matter. Remember, Hinduism has different sects. Each sect, for lack of better terms, has their own view of seeing the same thing. It's not like christianity where christians have different truths. Hinduism, as far as I know, has one truth Brahman but different ways of expression of that one truth. The god of abraham is not a part of it.

Why not appreciate all the versions of Hinduism? Why would you think there is a correct and not correct way to worship Brahman if you are Hindu and practicing teachings at the best of your ability?

Since you're Bahai, this question wouldn't apply to you.