How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

Regardless, many of them were laws that could be and were applied universally. We cannot say that the law thou shalt not kill belongs only to the Jews so therefore it's ok for us to go around killing.

Common sense tells us that these laws spread universally and affected all humanity and we can't say they are not beneficial to all humanity.

The point is that we can all use and share these laws if we find them useful and many are still being used today.

Having one god and no other gods is not a universal commandment. Killing is taking a life. Many people take live for many of reasons. Morals are not universal. You're trying to universalize everything. I mean, in my own apartment complex most people are christian but its interesting how everyone get along but their views are drastically different. They don't try to universalize. The closest "universal" statement I've heard is God Bless You.

It's respectful. Not everyone is like that but it's a personal preference and moral that I have.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your question is incorrect to begin with. You are assuming that, there could be a situation when, to work for the welfare of another, we would need to drop our belief in God. There is no such a situation. Bahais believe to love everyone, because everyone is created by God and that includes those who disagree with us, and even our enemies. But if you do not believe in God, whenever you see someone disagrees or perhaps you think he is against you, would you still be kind to them or love them? If yes, why? For what reason?

If I believed in god, say the god of abraham, I'd leave my faith for the welfare of another. When abraham sacrificed his son, I felt that was wrong. If you give charity, there is no reservation. He should have died for his son to live. That's when you give yourself for the welfare of another. It is possible but to imagine it, I think maybe they feel uncomfortable.

It's not incorrect. God of scripture made that same question. "Do you believe me first or do you believe in the life of your son?" If god can ask the same question, why can't I?

But, yes, it's a correct question. It's a hypothetical, so no the situation isn't going to be real. IF it were, what would you do? People without god can love. Why would they need a spiritual reason?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The basic foundations of each religion have many things in common.

They don't. That' the issue right there. You're not respecting people's differing foundations.

What's wrong with differences in foundations?

 

[loverofhumanity]

View attachment 17027
Christianity: Only Christ

View attachment 17028

I used Vishnu to keep it simple. There's a tie between the Hindu, Vishnu, and Brahman.


View attachment 17029
Bahai: Bahaullah and then the other prophets hooked together.

See that number one is only christ. There are no ties to Bahaullah. No promised one that's Bahaullah. It's between Christ and god in the NT and the old testement prophets. No one else.

The second one Brahman if I'm not mistaken is all. Hindu isn't a prophet faith. See how it goes in a circle.

Bahai faith is somewhat like christianity except for in christianity, it only goes to christians. In Bahai it goes through Bahaullah to other religions and tries to hook them together where the other two diagrams don't match.

This is where everything goes wrong. You can either see it the way you want to see it and don't claim the religions as Hinduism, Buddhist, oooh forgot buddhist

View attachment 17030
as your own or let these religions be because their diagrams do not fit yours.

The Vaishnavite sect of Hinduism is a Prophet Faith that believes that Krishna returns or incarnates from age to age and follows the Bhagavad-Gita. Also you forgot Shiva.

With Christianity the ties to Baha'u'llah we believe, are through the New Testament and to Judaism through the Ood Testament.

To Hinduism through the Bhagavad-Gita and other Scriptures and through Buddhism the Buddhist texts.

“In the divine Holy Books there are unmistakable prophecies giving the glad tidings of a certain Day in which the Promised One of all the Books would appear.

“These things are recorded in the Torah, or Old Testament, in the Gospel, the Qur'án, the Zend-Avesta, the books of Buddha and the book of Confucius. In brief, all the Holy Books contain these glad tidings. They announce that after the world is surrounded”

Abdul-Baha

The signs revealed in these Holy Books are meant for us at this time so we will be able to recognise the Holy One when He appears.

 

[loverofhumanity]

They don't. That' the issue right there. You're not respecting people's differing foundations.

What's wrong with differences in foundations?

We believe the spiritual teachings such as the virtues, the golden rule are common to all Faiths and also each religion has a Founder and usually a Holy Book.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Vaishnavite sect of Hinduism is a Prophet Faith that believes that Krishna returns or incarnates from age to age and follows the Bhagavad-Gita. Also you forgot Shiva.

With Christianity the ties to Baha'u'llah we believe, are through the New Testament and to Judaism through the Ood Testament.

To Hinduism through the Bhagavad-Gita and other Scriptures and through Buddhism the Buddhist texts.

“In the divine Holy Books there are unmistakable prophecies giving the glad tidings of a certain Day in which the Promised One of all the Books would appear.

“These things are recorded in the Torah, or Old Testament, in the Gospel, the Qur'án, the Zend-Avesta, the books of Buddha and the book of Confucius. In brief, all the Holy Books contain these glad tidings. They announce that after the world is surrounded”

Abdul-Baha

The signs revealed in these Holy Books are meant for us at this time so we will be able to recognise the Holy One when He appears.

I know what you believe. Can you see where we are telling you you are wrong? Do you understand?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We believe the spiritual teachings such as the virtues, the golden rule are common to all Faiths and also each religion has a Founder and usually a Holy Book.

Not all religions have a founders. Revealed religions does not talk for the rest of the worlds religion.

World peace doesnt work that way.

Virtues and golden rules dont define religion they are the result of religion. You cant be christian when you believe in bahaullah. Their scriptures do not apply to you as someone who does not identify soley with the christian faith.

Do you understand?

 

[CG Didymus]

..Specifically in regards to Christianity, core beliefs that differ from the Baha'i faith are:
- The exclusivity of Christianity
- Jesus is physically God incarnate
- Salvation is through Faith (in Jesus) alone
- A physical resurrection of Christ
- The signs and conditions accompanying the Return of Christ..

No, the first thing they try and convince you of... is that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior. Then they tell you Jesus died for your sins. He paid the penalty. They tell you he conquered death by rising again. And that... He's coming back to establish His Kingdom.

The whole focus and purpose is laid out from Genesis to Revelation. The Baha'is change everything. Does a person need Jesus to pay for their sins? What do Baha'is say? Is there a hell for Satan and for sinners? You've already said "no" to that. Did he conquer death by rising from the dead? No, death to you isn't a bad thing, it is moving on to the next level. Everything is different. The purpose, the goal, the way to get there is all different.

Their beliefs are easily questioned. But if we do, and convince them they are wrong, what have we done? They had Jesus. They believed they were saved and going to heaven. Now what? You've torn apart their spiritual reality. And what do you try and give them? A new reality. Do you really have Hindu/Baha'is? Or Christian/Baha'is? I think it's more like ex-Hindus that have become Baha'is, because you've changed their beliefs.

No more reincarnation is one thing, but the rituals and chants and other things are now going to be Baha'i beliefs and prayers and activities. Same with Christians. No more going to Church and Bible studies. Those things teach the wrong interpretation. No more belief in the devil and having to go out and preach the gospel. Now it is going to Baha'i meetings and telling people about Baha'u'llah's message. But, then again, if it's true, it's a good thing. So who knows.

 

[CG Didymus]

How come Muslims include Moses and Jesus in their religion?They also include the Torah and Gospels as a part of their belief. They haven't asked permission.

What do Jews think of Christians using part of their Scriptures? And, what do Christians think of Muslims using theirs?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Thank you for simplifying it a bit more. I was talking to loverofhumanity about more than one truth. I believe there is more than one truth and that everyone has their individual truth as I have mine. My truth (or how I see reality) is my expression and what I do daily. It's not yours or anyone else's. So when someone says there is one truth, that, to me, limits many expressions under one foundation.

In this case, truth is an expression and is ourselves. So truths change. They shape. They are not static. So I can't compare it to the sun because we have hope the earth will turn so the sun can rise and set. But truth doesn't work that way. It work with us not separate from us. We can personify it by saying they are manifestations but that depends on the persons religion. It's not one truth. It's more than one.

How can there be one truth? There is the sun, the moon, the earth, the stars. So I would say each prophet is its own truth. There is no connection on an inner level because the foundations are drastically different. Their view of world peace is different as well as their practices and interpretation there of.

It's like trying to make the moon, the sun and the sun, the stars all because they work together. But that doesnt mean there is one truth all because we are one humanity. World peace come with agreement of diverse truth. We aren't taking away other people's truths to make one foundation but having a mutual understanding and respect that we won't overstep each others boundaries while making world peace.

I understand what you're saying now in respect of the connection. I don't understand one truth though.

I think we need to think how analogies work.

For example, it is said, Knowledge is Light. Ignorance is darkness. The likeness of light and knowledge is because, when there is Light, we can see, we can find the way. But when there is no light, and there is darkness, we do not see, we cannot find the way. It is like knowledge. With true knowledge we can understand the reality of things. But this knowledge which is like Light, would have a Source, just as Light must have a Source. The Light of knowledge must come from a Source. It this manner, we can use an analogy and say, 'The Sun, is the Source of Light'. It gives light to the earth. So, in this analogy there is only one source of light for this earth, and that is the Sun. Every Day, this Light of Day, comes from one and the same source. The moon and other planets, also receive their Light from the Same Sun. But this is an analogy. In this respect, we say, there is only one Truth, because Truth is the Source of True Knowledge. We cannot have contradictory knowledge and say, all of them are true. That is the meaning of 'Truth is One'. Analogies are not an exact representation, but they are similarities meant to describe realities, however they must be related. You would find in almost all Scriptures of World Religion, the analogy of the Sun, with God, or Truth.
For example if we say, watter is made of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen. But another one come and says, water is made of Steel and Gold. It is obvious we cannot say, both are true. Truth is one. Someone may say, this is what I believe. That is fine, no body is supposed to force another to change their belief, but the Truth is that, water is not made of steel and gold. It is made of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Now, apply this, with the Manifestations of Truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Having one god and no other gods is not a universal commandment. Killing is taking a life. Many people take live for many of reasons. Morals are not universal. You're trying to universalize everything. I mean, in my own apartment complex most people are christian but its interesting how everyone get along but their views are drastically different. They don't try to universalize. The closest "universal" statement I've heard is God Bless You.

It's respectful. Not everyone is like that but it's a personal preference and moral that I have.

Unity and diversity is not unity in uniformity. It's being different but not allowing the differences to cause war and conflict.

 

[CG Didymus]

...There are signs given in the Bible as to how to recognise Him when He returns...

There are many signs Christians give, which I'm sure won't match yours, because they don't believe he has come yet. So lets go over what your signs are again and let's see how they match up with what the Christians are expecting.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If I believed in god, say the god of abraham, I'd leave my faith for the welfare of another. When abraham sacrificed his son, I felt that was wrong. If you give charity, there is no reservation. He should have died for his son to live. That's when you give yourself for the welfare of another. It is possible but to imagine it, I think maybe they feel uncomfortable.

It's not incorrect. God of scripture made that same question. "Do you believe me first or do you believe in the life of your son?" If god can ask the same question, why can't I?

But, yes, it's a correct question. It's a hypothetical, so no the situation isn't going to be real. IF it were, what would you do? People without god can love. Why would they need a spiritual reason?

But Bahais have a different view about God. If I had the same view that you have about god, I would also leave it. I also do not believe in the god you do not accept. Bahai Scriptures rejects any imaginations about God, such as what you would see commonly, that people think of God as a person in the sky, or a god that is everywhere, or a god that would take you to hell and burn if you do not believe He exist,..etc. To me, Bahai Scriptures teach that God, is the Source of True Knowledge. The Source of Love, and all other good attributes that are manifested in this World.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why not? The Ten Commandments became universal laws.

What was it the "Code of Hammurabi" or something that pre-dated the Bible? It had similar rules? But even so, a lot of the laws are very basic... Love God, don't steal, don't murder, don't lie... but then we have "keep the Sabbath Holy"? Who does that? I mean the way the Jews are supposed to keep it? In fact, that ties in the stoning problem again. If you break the Sabbath, you could get stoned to death. So it's those Ten Commandments that became universal?

 

[CG Didymus]

...They appear from Age to Age, just as the Sun that appears every Morning. It appeared once in the person of Krishna, in another time, in Person of Moses, another Day on person of Jesus,....and Now in the Person of Bahaullah. The Truth is the living Truth. It is not dead.

The Sun kind of looks the same and kind of does the same thing every day. We can count on it being consistent.

Manifestations? No, they look different, taught different, came in the framework of different religions and cultures. Similarities? Yeah. But a lot of difference too. For you, go ahead, disregard the differences. That's what you need to do to make your religion make sense. But then, you insinuate too much sameness and oneness.

No, the differences are important. Some maybe bad interpretations. Maybe some because the prophet was misquoted. All kinds of reasons why the "Holy Books" might not be teaching exactly what they seem. But whose fault is that? It's not the same "Sun".

The manifestation is not like the Sun. The manifestation comes... shines his light... comes again... shines his light again. We see it. We recognize it. No problem. But that's not what happens. Instead, one day the Sun doesn't rise on schedule. When it does rise, it's millions miles further away than it's supposed to, so crops die. Another day it's going from north to south. It stays away for two days then stays in one spot for three days. That's closer to the "Sun" of the manifestations.

 

[loverofhumanity]

@Vinayaka corrected you on a lot of different Hindu teachings. Will you take his views into consideration or override it with yours?


Why ask, really? If you're not Hindu (someone who practice and identifies as Hindu not theological study and same goals) it does matter. Remember, Hinduism has different sects. Each sect, for lack of better terms, has their own view of seeing the same thing. It's not like christianity where christians have different truths. Hinduism, as far as I know, has one truth Brahman but different ways of expression of that one truth. The god of abraham is not a part of it.

Why not appreciate all the versions of Hinduism? Why would you think there is a correct and not correct way to worship Brahman if you are Hindu and practicing teachings at the best of your ability?

Since you're Bahai, this question wouldn't apply to you.

You're the one who said we should be using the correct version of religions.

So I asked you which versions are correct among the thousands of sects that do disagree over basic beliefs.

Just answering your question.

 

[sayak83]

Why not? The Ten Commandments became universal laws.

No, that's a Christian myth. First three are totally inapplicable. The rest are completely generic and have always been present in every culture down to aboriginal hunter gatherers.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why not? The Ten Commandments became universal laws.

In what universe do you live in? The scriptures of any one religion have absolutely no bearing on another religion, let alone some authority.

 

[Vinayaka]

@Vinayaka corrected you on a lot of different Hindu teachings. Will you take his views into consideration or override it with yours?


Why ask, really? If you're not Hindu (someone who practice and identifies as Hindu not theological study and same goals) it does matter. Remember, Hinduism has different sects. Each sect, for lack of better terms, has their own view of seeing the same thing. It's not like christianity where christians have different truths. Hinduism, as far as I know, has one truth Brahman but different ways of expression of that one truth. The god of abraham is not a part of it.

Why not appreciate all the versions of Hinduism? Why would you think there is a correct and not correct way to worship Brahman if you are Hindu and practicing teachings at the best of your ability?

Since you're Bahai, this question wouldn't apply to you.

Please do yourself a favour and recognise that Baha'i's know more about Hinduism than Hindus do. lol.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Christians who saw Him 2,000 years ago have all passed away.

There are signs given in the Bible as to how to recognise Him when He returns.

Respect, yes of course for all Faiths and their Holy Books and followers.

This is a contradictory statement. Christians don't say this, only Baha'is do. So you're disrespecting what Christians believe by telling them they believe something they don't believe.