How are these Great Beings explained?

[InvestigateTruth]

Well thank you so much for remembering me. I thought I was being shunned or something.

The Bible itself doesn't present Moses as anything close to the definition of a manifestation. Buddha got enlightened, he wasn't born that way. But let's take a real close look at Hinduism. They say that no "Great Being" started it. Krishna is the only one Baha'i mention, but he didn't start it.

It wouldn't be a big deal if the Baha'is didn't make so many claims as to how all religions are from one source and are a progression. So with Hinduism, which part of it is true? Which books of theirs are Holy Scripture and which aren't? You've already said that you don't believe in reincarnation. So one thing right there, a man-made belief? What else? What beliefs and practices of the Hindus are God-given and which are man-made traditions?

Once we find that out, and do it for the other religions, we can see if it is the same "Sun" shining down on us.

Actually, sorry, I get busy with other things, so i may be late sometimes to respond.

From my understanding, the approach and purpose that Bahaullah has, is not to come and look at every religion, and tell them what things they got wrong and what things they got right.

He just reveals the Religious Truth according to exigencies of our Age.
If you had read those quotes I provided in my last post, Bahaullah says, each Manifestation had a different Mission. From that, I understand why, Moses or Muhammad may not have presented Themselves explicitly as Manifestations of God, but just as Prophets. You know that, in all scriptures of world Religions they have a promised Day, which is called Resurrection Day, or a Time that God appears, and dead is riased. In some of the Hindu sects also, this was prophesied. What I mean, Bahaullah had a different mission. In Quran and Jewish Scriptures talk about God comming on that Day on earth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

• There are more than one truths
• Each expressions is that religion's truth
• Each individual religion's foundation are different from each other; no inner link
• Cultural appropriation is wrong if not more than respect is shown and asked before other cultural and foundational beliefs are put into one's faith

We see all the religions as one indivisible individual so to speak. At one stage we were a child then an adolescent and then an adult. They represent different stages of development of the one Faith of God.

Life doesn't work that way. A baby tiger doesn't grow to a adolescent bear and then mature into an adult squirrel and age to an elephant. The only similarities these animals have is that they are born, grow, live, and die. God has nothing to do with it.

The Baha'i Faith represents the latest stage in the evolution of this one evolving Faith.

That's your right and unless other religions agree, it is factually wrong. It's a belief not a fact.

On the diversity of religion, the Bahá'í Teachings say that..

'It regards them in no other light except as different stages in the eternal history and constant evolution of one religion, Divine and indivisible, of which it itself forms but an integral part.' (Effendi)

You said posts ago but never expounded on it yet that each religion has compassion and love and we all have mystical experiences. What does that mean? A tiger's experience is different than a bear's experience. No. They are not different expressions of the same animal. They are totally different animals.

Again, if we have the same love, explain what my love is.

'This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future' - Baha'u'llah

This is your belief. For it to be true, all humanity must believe in god. They don't.

Belief is not always truth. We only support and endorse truth.

No. Truth is universal. Belief is individual. Nothing wrong with that. Only dominate faiths as far as I know claim their beliefs are universal. Other people like myself see differences in beliefs as truths (with an -s) within themselves. Yes, a Hindu may feel that they have the truth or why would they follow it and not be, say, a Christian. The difference between Bahai, Christian, and Muslim, for example, is that they don't expand their outlook on other people. It's completely within their community and individual.

Unfortunately, this too isn't an universal outlook. I wish it were.

The Baha'i Faith represents only the purest forms of each religion without the sects, without the conflicting interpretations, superstitions and man made doctrines.

This is a dominate statement. If you're religion respects diversity, rephrase it so it's not a "me vs. them" statement.

So you will find not all beliefs on this planet are included in our religion. What is excluded either cannot be verified or is untrue according to a Manifestation of God not a priest or follower.

Which is sad. If you want world peace, all religions need to be revealed. Another "me vs. them" statement. We choose (as in recognize) which religions are revealed and which are not.

Sad for the Pagans because they aren't incorporated in your plan for world peace. I understand Christians because if a Pagan doesn't believe, they are not saved. It's a default. You want world peace. Your goal and plan incorporates all people not just those who are "saved". You need all religions to complete this goal.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And does not require any revelation as they are obvious and just common sense.

Knowledge always has an origin. It either is handed down or borrowed. How do you know that your knowledge and 'common sense' is not as a result of a Revelation from God thousands of years ago?

You believe in science don't you? These DNA tests prove that we are all related despite our current profile.

Strangers Agreed To Test Their DNA, But When They See The Results, They Can't Hold Back

You could be 100% Indian yet have ancestors from Abrahamic religions.

Before Hinduism knowledge existed and those people were the forefathers of Hinduism and they taught Hindus what they now know and believe and they for sure had belief in a God and a Manifestation but that got lost over time.

You can't prove that the knowledge you posses is innate that it hasn't come from a Manifestation of God. O we henerations and in the end come to you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

• There are more than one truths
• Each expressions is that religion's truth
• Each individual religion's foundation are different from each other; no inner link
• Cultural appropriation is wrong if not more than respect is shown and asked before other cultural and foundational beliefs are put into one's faith

Life doesn't work that way. A baby tiger doesn't grow to a adolescent bear and then mature into an adult squirrel and age to an elephant. The only similarities these animals have is that they are born, grow, live, and die. God has nothing to do with it.



That's your right and unless other religions agree, it is factually wrong. It's a belief not a fact.



You said posts ago but never expounded on it yet that each religion has compassion and love and we all have mystical experiences. What does that mean? A tiger's experience is different than a bear's experience. No. They are not different expressions of the same animal. They are totally different animals.

Again, if we have the same love, explain what my love is.



This is your belief. For it to be true, all humanity must believe in god. They don't.



No. Truth is universal. Belief is individual. Nothing wrong with that. Only dominate faiths as far as I know claim their beliefs are universal. Other people like myself see differences in beliefs as truths (with an -s) within themselves. Yes, a Hindu may feel that they have the truth or why would they follow it and not be, say, a Christian. The difference between Bahai, Christian, and Muslim, for example, is that they don't expand their outlook on other people. It's completely within their community and individual.

Unfortunately, this too isn't an universal outlook. I wish it were.



This is a dominate statement. If you're religion respects diversity, rephrase it so it's not a "me vs. them" statement.



Which is sad. If you want world peace, all religions need to be revealed. Another "me vs. them" statement. We choose (as in recognize) which religions are revealed and which are not.

Sad for the Pagans because they aren't incorporated in your plan for world peace. I understand Christians because if a Pagan doesn't believe, they are not saved. It's a default. You want world peace. Your goal and plan incorporates all people not just those who are "saved". You need all religions to complete this goal.

The oneness of humanity extends to all humanity including pagans. Why wouldn't it?

No pagan would ever become a Baha'i because pagans do not believe in God. That is the pagan's rejection of us not us of them.

What evidence do you have to support that the religions are not linked?

They all speak of a higher state or spiritual condition, they all teach good conduct, character, virtues and morals. They all teach to develop our inner self. Every religion does is of an 'unknown or as in Buddhism an 'uncreated'.

So are you saying they have nothing in common with each other and that it's all pure coincidence they teach similar things?

 

[sayak83]

Knowledge always has an origin. It either is handed down or borrowed. How do you know that your knowledge and 'common sense' is not as a result of a Revelation from God thousands of years ago?

You believe in science don't you? These DNA tests prove that we are all related despite our current profile.

Strangers Agreed To Test Their DNA, But When They See The Results, They Can't Hold Back

You could be 100% Indian yet have ancestors from Abrahamic religions.

Before Hinduism knowledge existed and those people were the forefathers of Hinduism and they taught Hindus what they now know and believe and they for sure had belief in a God and a Manifestation but that got lost over time.

You can't prove that the knowledge you posses is innate that it hasn't come from a Manifestation of God. O we henerations and in the end come to you.

You can believe whatever you like. You can even believe that we need revelations to figure out how to raise babies, love each other, walk, eat, sleep, speak, make fire, cook etc. You are going to convince nobody. Paleoanthropology shows that these rudimentary ethical ideas of caring for elders when they are sick, burying them etc. were already in place 1.8 million years ago in Homo-ergaster, our far far far remote ancestral species. We
have found deliberate burial with grave goods and an old individual all of whose teeth have fallen out, but who was cared for by preparing liquid food. Even before our ancestors had become modern humans or had learnt to clothe themselves or use fire regularly, the instincts of care had evolved so that groups could cooperate and transmit knowledge and technology. All descendants of H. Ergaster have had these basic ethics, Neanderthals, Erectus, Heidelbergensis and us, Homo sapiens. They emerge innately in children from 2-3 years of development and are a foundational hardwired psychological feature of our minds, with heritage they goes deeper than even fire and language.

You said Bahai accept science. Well evolution, anthropology and evolutionary psychology are perfectly clear that these moral basic traits are completely innate and not coming from any revelation.

Caring Homo erectus - Filthy Monkey Men
Is Human Morality a Product of Evolution?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The oneness of humanity extends to all humanity including pagans. Why wouldn't it?

It's not a part of your revealed religions. You have eastern faiths but not European Pagan (pre-abrahamic European religions) not there and they do believe in god(s). The Buddha doesn't. I find that odd.

No pagan would ever become a Baha'i because pagans do not believe in God. That is the pagan's rejection of us not us of them.

Remember, you're not wanting them to become Bahai, right? Diversity means boundaries and mutual respect. Half of us don't expect you to become our faith, why we yours. You just contradicted yourself.

Also, no. That's a Me vs. You (MVU) statement. Why would they reject you? Everyone is called to their respective faiths. Respect that. If we say it's not rejection, please please take that into consideration. We know more about our faiths than you.

What evidence do you have to support that the religions are not linked?

Your religion does not link Pagan and other religions such as African ones in your revealed religions. World peace happens with all faiths. No connection. Mutual respect. Agreement. No inner connection.

They all speak of a higher state or spiritual condition, they all teach good conduct, character, virtues and morals. They all teach to develop our inner self. Every religion does is of an 'unknown or as in Buddhism an 'uncreated'.

These are results of the foundation. You don't share the same foundation so these virtues and traits are defined differently for you and for everyone else. It is not shared by definition.

Buddhism speaks of understanding. Everyone else makes it mystical. It's not.

So are you saying they have nothing in common with each other and that it's all pure coincidence they teach similar things?

Yes. They have nothing to do with each other.

Their goals are similar. Their expressions are their goals and foundations.

Since they are different, no they are not the same.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And does not require any revelation as they are obvious and just common sense.

Dear Sayak. Just one word. Although we have different understandings I want to make it clear that I consider it a privilege and blessing to associate with Hindus such as you and Vinayaka.

I always want you to know that I respect you and Hinduism and never ever have any intention to belittle your beliefs or disrespect them regardless of whether I agree or not. But this is a forum for debate so you know the saying 'everything is in the table'? So 'bring it on'!!!!! Lol.

So foremost it is an enormous blessing for me as a Baha'i to mix with Hindus. I don't consider myself superior to you or Vinayaka in any way - just different. I am wrapoed in the Hindu belief in ahimsa. I believe if all the world learnt ahimsa long ago Baha'u'llah would never have appeared nor the other Teachers. But humanity learns so slowly we need constant reminding. Lol

I enjoy this discussion with you and Vinataka and please understand that it is NOT as Vinayaka may think, some secret plot to convert anyone.

I am happy to learn from you. I have already bought some books, downloaded others and read quite a bit thanks to Vinayaka. I'm not an orthodox fanatical Bahá'í but firm and resolute. Moderate and reasonable but uncompromising on my basic principles.

Unity and harmony are my goals but not appeasement, so it is a fine balance which is not always easy to maintain because of emotions and passions, but I try to be objective and detached, but not detached from what I know to be truth, yet willing to learn more truth from you both and all here. All people have truth. We can all learn from each other.

There are just some things I can't deny because they are true for me. For instance I would be lying to myself to say there is no God or Baha'u'llah is not the long awaited Promised One but we don't need to discuss that unless of course you want some proofs of God and Baha'u'llah which I have an enormous supply of.Lol

Just mingling and mixing wiith you all here has bestowed on me such blessings that I cannot express how grateful I am for the exemplary tolerance, infinite patience and overwhelming courtesy shown us Baha'is here by this forum and all here.

If you were in Australia I would invite you all over for a meal and to each give a talk and it would be fun.

Thanks to you and Vinayaka I have learnt to appreciate more and more about Hinduusm, much more now than when I first came here.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You can believe whatever you like. You can even believe that we need revelations to figure out how to raise babies, love each other, walk, eat, sleep, speak, make fire, cook etc. You are going to convince nobody. Paleoanthropology shows that these rudimentary ethical ideas of caring for elders when they are sick, burying them etc. were already in place 1.8 million years ago in Homo-ergaster, our far far far remote ancestral species. We
have found deliberate burial with grave goods and an old individual all of whose teeth have fallen out, but who was cared for by preparing liquid food. Even before our ancestors had become modern humans or had learnt to clothe themselves or use fire regularly, the instincts of care had evolved so that groups could cooperate and transmit knowledge and technology. All descendants of H. Ergaster have had these basic ethics, Neanderthals, Erectus, Heidelbergensis and us, Homo sapiens. They emerge innately in children from 2-3 years of development and are a foundational hardwired psychological feature of our minds, with heritage they goes deeper than even fire and language.

You said Bahai accept science. Well evolution, anthropology and evolutionary psychology are perfectly clear that these moral basic traits are completely innate and not coming from any revelation.

Caring Homo erectus - Filthy Monkey Men
Is Human Morality a Product of Evolution?

We believe that the human being is distinct from any other life form because it has a spiritual reality the animals do not possess.

Humans were always a distinct species which is why you see no monkey professors or Prophets or scientists etc. We were spiritually always another species.

Although man is part of the animal creation, he possesses a power of thought superior to all other created beings.

Man—the true man—is soul, not body; though physically man belongs to the animal kingdom, yet his soul lifts him above the rest of creation

Abdul-Baha (Originality of Species)

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's not a part of your revealed religions. You have eastern faiths but not European Pagan (pre-abrahamic European religions) not there and they do believe in god(s). The Buddha doesn't. I find that odd.



Remember, you're not wanting them to become Bahai, right? Diversity means boundaries and mutual respect. Half of us don't expect you to become our faith, why we yours. You just contradicted yourself.

Also, no. That's a Me vs. You (MVU) statement. Why would they reject you? Everyone is called to their respective faiths. Respect that. If we say it's not rejection, please please take that into consideration. We know more about our faiths than you.



Your religion does not link Pagan and other religions such as African ones in your revealed religions. World peace happens with all faiths. No connection. Mutual respect. Agreement. No inner connection.



These are results of the foundation. You don't share the same foundation so these virtues and traits are defined differently for you and for everyone else. It is not shared by definition.

Buddhism speaks of understanding. Everyone else makes it mystical. It's not.





Yes. They have nothing to do with each other.

Their goals are similar. Their expressions are their goals and foundations.

Since they are different, no they are not the same.

Let's look at the human being. Each person has their own identity and diversity. But we are all one human family. We all have human not animal DNA. We may be Chinese or American or Indian but beneath that exterior we are all humans.

What you seem to be saying is that we are not all human. That we don't have a common humanity. That the Chinese and Indians don't have a common humanity. That they are entirely different species which is scientifically untrue.

The same with religions. Outwardly they are different but the inward reality is the same. God, Allah, Jehovah, Shiva are just different expressions of the same Ultimate Reality and in Buddhism 'the uncreated, the unborn'.

A garden of diverse flowers receive their rain from the same sky, their nourishment from the same soil and their light from the same sun.

So too do the religions all connect to the same source although they are unaware of it and that they are in reality all flowers of the same garden and drops of the same ocean.

We are all genetically and spiritually brothers and sisters but we divide ourselves because of our ignorance of our oneness and humanity remains in a state of confusion and conflict because we do not understand our basic unity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Ah, you haven't answer my comment on this issue yet.

You are very patient. Thank you. My sincere apologies I miss a few because by the time I click on the link it doesn't take me to the post and I have to try and search for it. Is there a more efficient way like post number? Post number does not show up in my email notifications.

With ancient civilisations Baha'u'llah says that they were not without their Manifestations of God Who influenced their civilisations down throughout history only that we have no record of them.

I think if we were able to peer into the distant past we would see some of the laws that have been passed down through generations initially originated with the Great Educators but became dogmatised and adapted by various influences over time.

If you look at just how many recent civilisations have been transformed and influenced by a Christ or a Muhammad then it's easy to see that there's no reason why past Manifestations didn't influence ancient civilisations.

Baha'u'llah explains there were Manifestations well before the Hammurabi.

“And now regarding thy question, “How is it that no records are to be found concerning the Prophets that have preceded Adam,”

“Know thou that the absence of any reference to them is no proof that they did not actually exist. That no records concerning them are now available, should be attributed to their extreme remoteness, as well as to the vast changes which the earth hath undergone since their time.

Moreover such forms and modes of writing as are now current amongst men were unknown to the generations that were before Adam.”

Interesting.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The only things we have in common out of a drop of a hat is we are all human. We have the same functions regardless the absent or changed thereof. We all have a need for culture whether in oneself or with others. We all have a need for pattern. A lot of its psychological.

Let's look at the human being. Each person has their own identity and diversity. But we are all one human family. We all have human not animal DNA. We may be Chinese or American or Indian but beneath that exterior we are all humans.

What you are doing is confusing diversity with humanity. Yes, we share one humanity (we're all human) but spirituality is through our diversity. Humanity is a default. Diversity is our identity.

What you seem to be saying is that we are not all human. That we don't have a common humanity. That the Chinese and Indians don't have a common humanity. That they are entirely different species which is scientifically untrue.

I'm saying our humanity is linked to our diversity. So, when you connect us under one foundation (under Bahaullah's lens) you rob us of our diversity because it's seeing revealed religions through one person's eyes. It's literally tearing apart humanity and putting it together without the agreement (for lack of better words) of the people you see have in common.

The important part is our diversity. That makes up our identity. Humanity is a default. Our different expressions are who we are as people. They differ. We differ. No connection.

The same with religions. Outwardly they are different but the inward reality is the same. God, Allah, Jehovah, Shiva are just different expressions of the same Ultimate Reality and in Buddhism 'the uncreated, the unborn'.

Outward is inward. They are one and the same. You can't separate the peace and love of of Brahman from Puja and the practices of the Hindu faith. You can't separate the created (what's apart from oneself) from the uncreated (what's a part of ourselves). It's all in one. Hence the word "and" not or.

A garden of diverse flowers receive their rain from the same sky, their nourishment from the same soil and their light from the same sun.

The flowers grow differently and their source, you may think they all have the same soil that creates flowers the same, but each flower grows differently regardless the source. The important part is not the source but the diversity. If you keep looking to the source, you'll never respect the diversity that is the source itself. It's like the parable in scripture about the rocky verses fertile soil. You're saying it's all dirt. The bible differentiates the type of dirt. You can't say someone who has faith and someone who doesnt are one and the same. You're combining two different things. What's more, you're combining plants with animals that don't come from soil as if they are the same.

So too do the religions all connect to the same source although they are unaware of it and that they are in reality all flowers of the same garden and drops of the same ocean.

No they don't. The source is not god, christ The Buddha, and so forth. There is no one source. People are aware of it. You're not giving them credit. You're speaking for others spirituality and awareness. That's rude.

We are all genetically and spiritually brothers and sisters but we divide ourselves because of our ignorance of our oneness and humanity remains in a state of confusion and conflict because we do not understand our basic unity.

Diversity does not divide. MVU statements divide. If people respect diversity, there would be no Bahallah establishing world peace through revealed religions lens. He'd find agreement with all religions. He wouldn't say any other religions and religious practices are not relevant because they cause wars. He'd see the spiritual nature in the person and in the community and not look towards the wars as if traditions cause wars. Instead, people cause wars. There is a difference.

 

[arthra]

All teachers do not agree. Bahais are not listening to that. They try to make everything and everyone have something in common. The differences/expressions each religion has are their foundations and they are have nothing in common.

Carlita ... once again... we Baha'is are finding a common ground with other faiths... not seeking to overlook their special unique qualities... It sounds like you haven't attended many inter-faith gatherings of late.

I'll provide an example of what I mean...the Parliament of World Religions is one such case where representatives of the world's religions have been meeting since 1893....

You can submit your proposal for sharing how people of faith work together in your community, or concerning the issues of war and violence, climate change, and wealth disparity.


You are encouraged to share your faith, listen to others and ask questions in break-out sessions and circles.

Read more at

https://parliamentofreligions.org/parliament/salt-lake-2015

Our small community where I live has had regular monthly meetings of the Inter-faith Council which represents the churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of our town. We share each others prayers all the time and support worthwhile causes that we all support.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The only things we have in common out of a drop of a hat is we are all human. We have the same functions regardless the absent or changed thereof. We all have a need for culture whether in oneself or with others. We all have a need for pattern. A lot of its psychological.



What you are doing is confusing diversity with humanity. Yes, we share one humanity (we're all human) but spirituality is through our diversity. Humanity is a default. Diversity is our identity.



I'm saying our humanity is linked to our diversity. So, when you connect us under one foundation (under Bahaullah's lens) you rob us of our diversity because it's seeing revealed religions through one person's eyes. It's literally tearing apart humanity and putting it together without the agreement (for lack of better words) of the people you see have in common.

The important part is our diversity. That makes up our identity. Humanity is a default. Our different expressions are who we are as people. They differ. We differ. No connection.



Outward is inward. They are one and the same. You can't separate the peace and love of of Brahman from Puja and the practices of the Hindu faith. You can't separate the created (what's apart from oneself) from the uncreated (what's a part of ourselves). It's all in one. Hence the word "and" not or.



The flowers grow differently and their source, you may think they all have the same soil that creates flowers the same, but each flower grows differently regardless the source. The important part is not the source but the diversity. If you keep looking to the source, you'll never respect the diversity that is the source itself. It's like the parable in scripture about the rocky verses fertile soil. You're saying it's all dirt. The bible differentiates the type of dirt. You can't say someone who has faith and someone who doesnt are one and the same. You're combining two different things. What's more, you're combining plants with animals that don't come from soil as if they are the same.



No they don't. The source is not god, christ The Buddha, and so forth. There is no one source. People are aware of it. You're not giving them credit. You're speaking for others spirituality and awareness. That's rude.



Diversity does not divide. MVU statements divide. If people respect diversity, there would be no Bahallah establishing world peace through revealed religions lens. He'd find agreement with all religions. He wouldn't say any other religions and religious practices are not relevant because they cause wars. He'd see the spiritual nature in the person and in the community and not look towards the wars as if traditions cause wars. Instead, people cause wars. There is a difference.

I don't think you addressed the one source sufficiently as in the different flowers although diverse in colour, size and shape all get their nourishment from the same soil, their rain from the same sky and their light from the same one sun.

Even nature testifies to its own unity and that the root is the same.

Humanity is like a tree with different branches but the tree has the same roots. The branches do not get their life from the roots of a different tree.

It's because people keep looking at their differences and not the source that there is hatred of diversity.

Christians over the centuries have hated and despised Muslims because they see Muhammad as from the devil and not from the same God. Muslims have developed a hatred of diversity because they do not look at what their religion has in common with others and only see the differences.

Because we do not accept our basic oneness we are at each other's throats so to speak. Once a Muslim accepts a Hindu as a fellow human being she will cease to hate him. But while he views the Hindu as an 'infidel' he might harm him.

We can't be united only by diversity. We must see in each other something of ourselves otherwise it's 'us vs them' mentality giving rise to prejudice then hatred then strife, conflict and violence.

I think the world will accept its diversity once it accepts its oneness, that we are all human beings. But until then the mentality is 'us vs them' or 'otherness.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita ... once again... we Baha'is are finding a common ground with other faiths... not seeking to overlook their special unique qualities... It sounds like you haven't attended many inter-faith gatherings of late.

Their special unique qualities are their common ground. Their common ground is different not the same. That's my point. I've been to SGI worship meetings and worship practices. Most are inter-faith but they come together under one ground and they seek world peace too. Catholicism, at least over here, is not dominant in that they don't overlook other religious foundations. They have boundaries and help others as well as commune socially. As for interfaith meetings that are more formal, no. It just makes sense that when you practice more than one religion, the intimacy of each religion has boundaries that do not cross each other. As a minority, I understand this first-hand. I relate to a lot of minorities who know this first hand. There are boundaries. There is no common ground.

To say that to a Deaf, LGBTQ, religious minority, and cultural minority is an insult. One because they have shared experiences that make up our (and their) culture. Two, our cultures and political views as well as our own views of ourselves are common ground among our own community. If I were to tell a Deaf person they have the same foundation as a hearing person, that is an insult. We have a huge Deaf community here and being part of that community as a student and ally I understand. It's a personal thing. I would love to go to an interfaith meeting but it balls down to personal experience.

I'll provide an example of what I mean...the Parliament of World Religions is one such case where representatives of the world's religions have been meeting since 1893....

I'll take a look later. It's 3 a.m. here and I should be sleep.

You can submit your proposal for sharing how people of faith work together in your community, or concerning the issues of war and violence, climate change, and wealth disparity.

You are encouraged to share your faith, listen to others and ask questions in break-out sessions and circles.

With me and hundreds of others, we share our faith and know our boundaries. We ask permission and we speak of our culture and communities in a social light but not our personal experiences and "secrets" unless I was raised in that community or have shared experiences, religion, race, and/or hearing or Deaf that would appreciate the other faith beyond knowledge and associating with other faiths and cultures.

Our small community where I live has had regular monthly meetings of the Inter-faith Council which represents the churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of our town. We share each others prayers all the time and support worthwhile causes that we all support.

My point is not social associations with other religions. It's not crossing their boundaries when you have their prophets in your religion. It's not something you can get around. I just find it disrespectful. I mean you and @adrian are very nice about it but while talking to @loverofhumanity, I don't think he gets what I'm saying.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The only things we have in common out of a drop of a hat is we are all human. We have the same functions regardless the absent or changed thereof. We all have a need for culture whether in oneself or with others. We all have a need for pattern. A lot of its psychological.



What you are doing is confusing diversity with humanity. Yes, we share one humanity (we're all human) but spirituality is through our diversity. Humanity is a default. Diversity is our identity.



I'm saying our humanity is linked to our diversity. So, when you connect us under one foundation (under Bahaullah's lens) you rob us of our diversity because it's seeing revealed religions through one person's eyes. It's literally tearing apart humanity and putting it together without the agreement (for lack of better words) of the people you see have in common.

The important part is our diversity. That makes up our identity. Humanity is a default. Our different expressions are who we are as people. They differ. We differ. No connection.



Outward is inward. They are one and the same. You can't separate the peace and love of of Brahman from Puja and the practices of the Hindu faith. You can't separate the created (what's apart from oneself) from the uncreated (what's a part of ourselves). It's all in one. Hence the word "and" not or.



The flowers grow differently and their source, you may think they all have the same soil that creates flowers the same, but each flower grows differently regardless the source. The important part is not the source but the diversity. If you keep looking to the source, you'll never respect the diversity that is the source itself. It's like the parable in scripture about the rocky verses fertile soil. You're saying it's all dirt. The bible differentiates the type of dirt. You can't say someone who has faith and someone who doesnt are one and the same. You're combining two different things. What's more, you're combining plants with animals that don't come from soil as if they are the same.



No they don't. The source is not god, christ The Buddha, and so forth. There is no one source. People are aware of it. You're not giving them credit. You're speaking for others spirituality and awareness. That's rude.



Diversity does not divide. MVU statements divide. If people respect diversity, there would be no Bahallah establishing world peace through revealed religions lens. He'd find agreement with all religions. He wouldn't say any other religions and religious practices are not relevant because they cause wars. He'd see the spiritual nature in the person and in the community and not look towards the wars as if traditions cause wars. Instead, people cause wars. There is a difference.

Dear Carlita. I just want to say that i admire your sincerity and although our views differ, it's a privilege to communicate with you.
You've been so patient, and tolerant with our diversity particularly my laughable not being able to 'get it'.

I know you're in a different country but I want you to know you a very welcome in our homes. You have an aweful lot to give and are so magnanimous.

Amidst debates and differing views I want you to know I think you are a very sweet and sincere person. I'm sorry if what I say makes you feel insulted. That's never my intention.

I am more than happy for you to teach me about your pagan beliefs. I need to ask you more about those. Websites, books etc what can you teach me about your beliefs?

And what made you accept paganism? Only if course if you want yo share it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think you addressed the one source sufficiently as in the different flowers although diverse in colour, size and shape all get their nourishment from the same soil, their rain from the same sky and their light from the same one sun.

The source are the different flowers. The soil is different depending on how fertile the soil is. One patch of flowers can be healthy while another welted. Some blood brightly, others do not. It's based on the differing texture of source. If the source where the same, the flowers would be the same.

I believe the source is diversity.

Even nature testifies to its own unity and that the root is the same.

No. There are different roots. That's why nature is so diverse. Many sources. Unity among diversity means they work together. That doesn't mean the sources are the same. The moon source isn't the same as the moon source. The animal source isn't the same as the plant source.

Humanity is like a tree with different branches but the tree has the same roots. The branches do not get their life from the roots of a different tree.

Each tree is different and produce different branches. If you look outside, you see different trees. They are not the same. So the branches are not the same. That is not a good example for humanity unless you believe that everyone should be under one source. I find that off.

It's because people keep looking at their differences and not the source that there is hatred of diversity.

Their differences are the source when it comes to spirituality and practices. Understand?

Christians over the centuries have hated and despised Muslims because they see Muhammad as from the devil and not from the same God. Muslims have developed a hatred of diversity because they do not look at what their religion has in common with others and only see the differences.

That doesn't define that differences are the sources of many religions. It doesn't address that there are many truths. People cause hatred. We are talking about truth(s) not individual people.

Because we do not accept our basic oneness we are at each other's throats so to speak. Once a Muslim accepts a Hindu as a fellow human being she will cease to hate him. But while he views the Hindu as an 'infidel' he might harm him.

Think of it this way. I don't accept oneness and one truth. Does that mean I'm prone to cause wars? Are you more peaceful than me?

Society is made up of people. We shouldn't generalize and reflect what one group of people do that you and I "claim" we don't do. That's silly. Everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. Please, don't generalize. This includes yourself in these wars when you do.

We can't be united only by diversity. We must see in each other something of ourselves otherwise it's 'us vs them' mentality giving rise to prejudice then hatred then strife, conflict and violence.

Diversity is not "us vs. them." It just means we all are different and our sources are different. Saying that we are the the same and having a prophet that says we are while telling others who do not believe they are wrong (they are at war; some day they will come to know Bahaullah; there is no greater peace until one comes to Bahaullah) is a UVT belief system.

I think the world will accept its diversity once it accepts its oneness, that we are all human beings. But until then the mentality is 'us vs them' or 'otherness.

Once people accept their diversity then there is no need for oneness. Mutual respect and agreement is a part of peace. Oneness takes that out.

Understand?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Their special unique qualities are their common ground. Their common ground is different not the same. That's my point. I've been to SGI worship meetings and worship practices. Most are inter-faith but they come together under one ground and they seek world peace too. Catholicism, at least over here, is not dominant in that they don't overlook other religious foundations. They have boundaries and help others as well as commune socially. As for interfaith meetings that are more formal, no. It just makes sense that when you practice more than one religion, the intimacy of each religion has boundaries that do not cross each other. As a minority, I understand this first-hand. I relate to a lot of minorities who know this first hand. There are boundaries. There is no common ground.

To say that to a Deaf, LGBTQ, religious minority, and cultural minority is an insult. One because they have shared experiences that make up our (and their) culture. Two, our cultures and political views as well as our own views of ourselves are common ground among our own community. If I were to tell a Deaf person they have the same foundation as a hearing person, that is an insult. We have a huge Deaf community here and being part of that community as a student and ally I understand. It's a personal thing. I would love to go to an interfaith meeting but it balls down to personal experience.


I'll take a look later. It's 3 a.m. here and I should be sleep.





With me and hundreds of others, we share our faith and know our boundaries. We ask permission and we speak of our culture and communities in a social light but not our personal experiences and "secrets" unless I was raised in that community or have shared experiences, religion, race, and/or hearing or Deaf that would appreciate the other faith beyond knowledge and associating with other faiths and cultures.



My point is not social associations with other religions. It's not crossing their boundaries when you have their prophets in your religion. It's not something you can get around. I just find it disrespectful. I mean you and @adrian are very nice about it but while talking to @loverofhumanity, I don't think he gets what I'm saying.

Carlita. You keep saying I don't get what you're saying. What is it you feel I'm not getting? Because we have different views doesn't mean I'm not understanding you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Dear Carlita. I just want to say that i admire your sincerity and although our views differ, it's a privilege to communicate with you.

Thank you. You as well.

You've been so patient, and tolerant with our diversity particularly my laughable not being able to 'get it'.

Hey. It gets frustrating. I gave up with christians. But they are easy since it's black and white.

I know you're in a different country but I want you to know you a very welcome in our homes. You have an aweful lot to give and are so magnanimous.

Thank you. I wish I can go back teaching ESL/EFL. I love to give knowledge and have to keep saying I have knowledge to give-and, actually remembered it! lol

Amidst debates and differing views I want you to know I think you are a very sweet and sincere person. I'm sorry if what I say makes you feel insulted. That's never my intention.

I know. The statements are insults not your intentions. Thank you.

I am more than happy for you to teach me about your pagan beliefs. I need to ask you more about those. Websites, books etc what can you teach me about your beliefs?

You'd have to give me a minute to come back. It's 3:33 a.m. here. I do have books but the paganism that I follow isn't pre-christian european religions. I notice RFers differentiate the two by putting caps on Pagan. With me, it's all about nature, my ancestors, and relationship with life and myself. Living with the earth's cycles. Hard to do since here it's so techno oriented.

And what made you accept paganism? Only if course if you want yo share it.

Gosh. Haha. That is a loaded question. Without calling it paganism (I just did that for RF sake), my family always believed in ancestral and family spirits. Mostly family. My mother hadn't had "the time" to look more into her family as I do. We've seen spirits and in our own separate ways interact with them. It doesn't happen as often here as it used to. Maybe because you question more at my age. Most cultural religions I know honor their ancestors. I practice magic and all of that to do so.

Visiting my grandmothers and just saying hello and thank you are practices. As for theological and mythological views, I have none, really. I tried keeping to Buddhist sutras and the Lotus Sutra from the Buddhist sect I used to follow, but I find I'm not a worshiper nor prophet-believer. I never understood hierarchy and god(s) etc. It's more gods are multiple truths (if one likes) or in my case spirits which are the souls of the deceased.

I can't wrap my head around god(s). Polytheism makes sense but theism means more than one god. I believe in more than one spirit. So, I guess it's a weird definition of the word. Spiritualist is actually better. I would like to visit their church sundays when I can afford to travel there.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita. You keep saying I don't get what you're saying. What is it you feel I'm not getting? Because we have different views doesn't mean I'm not understanding you.

Just thought if you understand that diversity means multiple sources. Do you understand there is multiple truths?

Do you understand that expressions are truths not separate? Also, do you understand that traditions you believe cause wars does not but it's all about the people?

You don't have to agree but it's hard to re-articulate your religion. I do understand it. I just don't agree with it. It doesn't make sense to me spiritually. It's not a knowledge thing just personal experience of dominate religious thoughts overcoming minorities in culture, language, traditions and/or so have you. These are personal experiences from the same religious thought christian and otherwise. Not you specifically.

 

[sayak83]

We believe that the human being is distinct from any other life form because it has a spiritual reality the animals do not possess.

Humans were always a distinct species which is why you see no monkey professors or Prophets or scientists etc. We were spiritually always another species.

Although man is part of the animal creation, he possesses a power of thought superior to all other created beings.

Man—the true man—is soul, not body; though physically man belongs to the animal kingdom, yet his soul lifts him above the rest of creation

Abdul-Baha (Originality of Species)

So humans did not evolve from ancestral apes?
I think the discussion here has abundantly shown that the Bahai are a distinct new prophet based religion with its own beliefs and practices that are not aligned with practices or beliefs of other religions. So despite it considering itself as a culmination of previous religions, it rejects key tenets of other religions (physical resurrection of Christ to expiate sin, reincarnation and that all beings including animals have souls etc.) and are incompatible with them. If a Marxist ideology considers Jesus as the first true proletariat revolutionary, just because it highlights Jesus in some way does not make its beliefs a culmination of Christianity. Similarly Bahai have their own unique take on some important people prominent in other religions, but does not make it compatible or a culmination of them. That idea believed by the Bahai is objectively wrong. It's a distinct faith and like any other faith one is completely free to believe it and practice it, but it has no special claim vis a vis all other faiths that exist along with it.