How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

Religion was created for happiness and love not for misery yet there have been far too many wars and too much bloodshed in the name of religion.

We can coexist but it must be by seeing each other as equals.

When I was Catholic, I was not miserable. Catholicism didn't cause me misery. Thousands of Catholics feel the same.

Why are you judging people's spirituality by someone else's misdeeds and saying that "our" religion is not a family because of it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You were speaking about everything starting with the family.

I was simply agreeing that if we have harmful habits in the family they will spread to the the world arena.

One very harmful habit in the family is male do,inamcd and that has spread all throughout the world. It's mainly male aggression which starts and fights wars.

So if we want world peace women must have an equal say in world affairs as woman is much more family orientated and we need family not endless confrontations which men seem to be so good at.

This post was a bit chopped up. Typing fast? My point, though, is one person has no right to fix another family's problems. Two, each person in that family has their own spiritual relationship with their religion. Judging their religion based on their predecessors history is wrong. It doesn't make sense, one unless you believe in "original sin." Two, it's immoral because it imposes misdeeds from someone onto someone else today.

You're fixing religions that do not need to be fixed by an outside party.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The problem is you are seeing say christianity is false because multiple people have different interpretations.

I do not think what you are saying, is a correct representation of Bahai belief.
Bahais believe Christianity is a divinely revealed Religion.
Through out history, there has been many peaceful Christians, who acted according to teachings of Christ. They had understood the message of Jesus correctly. However there have also been Cruel pops. These were for instance false Christianity.

Do you think, the cruel Pops were True Christanity, and they understood the message of Christ correctly?

So you have the right to reinterpret those teachings without being a christian to do so. That is what I find wrong. Not your goals.
....
regardless if they cause wars or peace.

Bahais believe, God does what He wills. He does not let people make God's Religion the cause of war. This is why, He manifested Bahaullah, to correct misinterpretations of Religion of God, even if some people do not like it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This post was a bit chopped up. Typing fast? My point, though, is one person has no right to fix another family's problems. Two, each person in that family has their own spiritual relationship with their religion. Judging their religion based on their predecessors history is wrong. It doesn't make sense, one unless you believe in "original sin." Two, it's immoral because it imposes misdeeds from someone onto someone else today.

You're fixing religions that do not need to be fixed by an outside party.

Working on the premise that humanity is one species and one family, what happens to members of our family in one part of the world affects family elsewhere.

We believe we need to get to the root causes of war and violence and bring about reconciliation.

Most of the violence in the world is triggered by unfounded prejudices which is caused by misinformation. If we considered everyone as a part of our own human family would we then slaughter each other?

It's only because there is a demonization, an 'us vs them' mentality that these things occur.

So we believe we should consider the Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian, pagan, atheist, believers without any Founder, all are equal human beings and all to be treated with equal dignity and respect. None is better or superior just different.

This is what we try and teach, that all humanity are equal fellow human beings to be treated with respect and dignity and to accept all people as fellow humans regardless oftheir race, nationality, religion or no religion or gender.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not think what you are saying, is a correct representation of Bahai belief.
Bahais believe Christianity is a divinely revealed Religion.
Through out history, there has been many peaceful Christians, who acted according to teachings of Christ. They had understood the message of Jesus correctly. However there have also been Cruel pops. These were for instance false Christianity.

Do you think, the cruel Pops were True Christanity, and they understood the message of Christ correctly?


Bahais believe, God does what He wills. He does not let people make God's Religion the cause of war. This is why, He manifested Bahaullah, to correct misinterpretations of Religion of God, even if some people do not like it.

It's hard to go back on the posts and you and @loverofhumanity are saying two different things.

The gist from loverofhumanity is

1. The history of other revealed religions and their traditions, rituals, and practices worked only for that day. The prophets teachings are relevant for that time period.

2. Through a progression of prophets, Bahaullah is the last prophet for this day until I think a hundred years later when another one would replace him.

3. Bahaullah (he quoted) disregards traditions, rituals, and dogma of other religions to gain world peace

4. World peace can only be established today through the the teachings of Bahaullah who get his words through the prophets and the source from god.

Fixing religions because they cause wars is not the key to world peace. Loverofhumanity also said that one day people will come to know world peace according to Bahaullah. (People will come to the Bahai faith).

I disagree with teh morals of fixing religions. There was a lot of contradictions in his statements and differences in yours and his.

The key is both you and loverofhumanity and @adrian all have different interpretations of the Bahai faith just as Christians do. It would be wrong for me to come in and change your faith as a whole because you guys see things differently.

It does not need to cause wars to be wrong. Spirituality is individual and/or community oriented. Anyone outside the community or person has no right to fix other people's religions without full agreement.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Working on the premise that humanity is one species and one family, what happens to members of our family in one part of the world affects family elsewhere.

We believe we need to get to the root causes of war and violence and bring about reconciliation.

Most of the violence in the world is triggered by unfounded prejudices which is caused by misinformation. If we considered everyone as a part of our own human family would we then slaughter each other?

It's only because there is a demonization, an 'us vs them' mentality that these things occur.

So we believe we should consider the Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian, pagan, atheist, believers without any Founder, all are equal human beings and all to be treated with equal dignity and respect. None is better or superior just different.

This is what we try and teach, that all humanity are equal fellow human beings to be treated with respect and dignity and to accept all people as fellow humans regardless oftheir race, nationality, religion or no religion or gender.

To get to the root of these problems is not to fix other people's religions but to address the people who make up humanity. It is not up to Bahaullah to do this nor any other prophet or god.

 

[arthra]

World peace can only be established today through the the teachings of Bahaullah who get his words through the prophets and the source from god.

The teachings of Baha'u'llah are that there needs to be a representative world parliament and an international court of arbitration to resolve disputes.. as well as a reductuion of armaments. We have the beginnings of this in bodies like the United Nations.. Baha'u'llah addressed Tablets to the then rulers such as Queen Victoria, Kaiser Wilhelm, the Czar of Russia and other world leaders back in 1867.

Fixing religions because they cause wars is not the key to world peace.

We don't "fix" religions... What we do is find what we have in common with and encourage goals that everyone supports.. as I've indicated previously through the Parliament of World Religions and the advisory capacity the Baha'i community has with the UN.

Through a progression of prophets, Bahaullah is the last prophet for this day until I think a hundred years later when another one would replace him.

Baha'u'llah is the latest Prophet of this day not the "last" and He was not the "only" Manifestation as Shoghi Effendi wrote:

In the Bahá'í Dispensation the Greater Covenant refers to the renewal of God's ancient Covenant through the appearance of the twin Manifestations of God, the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh, and the promise of another Manifestation to come in the future after the passage of at least one thousand years.

(Shoghi Effendi, This Decisive Hour, p. 154)

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's hard to go back on the posts and you and @loverofhumanity are saying two different things.

The gist from loverofhumanity is

1. The history of other revealed religions and their traditions, rituals, and practices worked only for that day. The prophets teachings are relevant for that time period.

2. Through a progression of prophets, Bahaullah is the last prophet for this day until I think a hundred years later when another one would replace him.

3. Bahaullah (he quoted) disregards traditions, rituals, and dogma of other religions to gain world peace

4. World peace can only be established today through the the teachings of Bahaullah who get his words through the prophets and the source from god.

Fixing religions because they cause wars is not the key to world peace. Loverofhumanity also said that one day people will come to know world peace according to Bahaullah. (People will come to the Bahai faith).

I disagree with teh morals of fixing religions. There was a lot of contradictions in his statements and differences in yours and his.

The key is both you and loverofhumanity and @adrian all have different interpretations of the Bahai faith just as Christians do. It would be wrong for me to come in and change your faith as a whole because you guys see things differently.

It does not need to cause wars to be wrong. Spirituality is individual and/or community oriented. Anyone outside the community or person has no right to fix other people's religions without full agreement.

Point 4 is not entirely correct as we belive the Lesser Peace will be established by the nations of the world without any Baha'i involvement.

Only the Most Great Peace is the one we refer to as the golden age of the Faith of Baha'u'llah. That is when the majority of humanity will have accepted His Faith many centuries from now.

We are not 'fixing' any religion but rather leaving them to themselves because they cannot be fixed.

Baha'u'llah has brought a new religion for today that accepts all the Founders and Holy Books of past Faiths with new teachings for the unity of humanity and the elimination of prejudices.

 

[loverofhumanity]

To get to the root of these problems is not to fix other people's religions but to address the people who make up humanity. It is not up to Bahaullah to do this nor any other prophet or god.

He addresses humanity in many Tablets.

O peoples of the world!

The Sun of Truth hath risen to illumine the whole earth, and to spiritualize the community of man.

The Blessed Beauty saith: ‘Ye are all the fruits of one tree, the leaves of one branch.’ Thus hath He likened this world of being to a single tree, and all its peoples to the leaves thereof, and the blossoms and fruits. It is needful for the bough to blossom, and leaf and fruit to flourish, and upon the interconnection of all parts of the world-tree, dependeth the flourishing of leaf and blossom, and the sweetness of the fruit.

 

[Vinayaka]

If one study Islam you will find that it is disobedience to the Quran that is the problem not Islam itself.

I sort of follow the debates on here, remain undecided in principle, but see many problems with the doctrine itself. The contradictions only come when I've met Moslems behaving nicely, which seems in contradiction to their own teachings. So it's a question of who are the 'real' Moslems. Certainly I don't want to debate with you about this.

But I see similar contradictions between Baha'i' doctrine and behaviour, as you know.

 

[Vinayaka]

Y Sri Lanka Hindus vs Buddhists that was one family? Yeah sure these people who hate the sight of each other are just one big loving happy family.

Just a correction for you as I'm familiar with this one. The Sri Lankan civil war was Tamil versus Sinhalese, not Hindu versus Buddhist. The leaders of the Tamil Tigers were Christians.

 

[Vinayaka]

Religion was created for happiness and love not for misery yet there have been far too many wars and too much bloodshed in the name of religion.

We can coexist but it must be by seeing each other as equals.

There is also self created misery by worrying too much about all this. Quite the conundrum.

 

[Vinayaka]

History doesn't lie or camoflauge the truth.

Of course it does. In fact it always does. The writers always have bias. All you have to do is compare war statistics from two sides in a war. Each side will claim larger casualties for the other side, because they don't want their people to feel like they're losing the war.

Compare conqueror history versus victim history. Go speak with the Australian aboriginal community about how the Europeans came to their lands.

The idea that history is always true is about as plausible is infallibility. No truth to it whatsoever.

 

[Vinayaka]

Carlita, I think there is a misunderstanding here. I like to clear it up.

The Bahai Faith teaches that, we all should be like One Loving Family. However through out the History, People fought with each other, and killed many. One of the reasons for this has been Religious Fanaticism. I think what LoverOfhumanity is trying to point out is that, True Religion must be the cause of unity. Every time, people hold a religious belief that teaches other than loving and unity and promoting hate and disunity, that religion is false. This is what Bahai Faith teaches. So, Bahai Faith teaches that Jesus was a Manifestation of God, and His Religion if understood correctly, and acted according to it, is the cause of unity and love. But if, any group of people come and interpret it in such a way, as to make it cause of disunity, then that interpretation is false. The Bahai Faith is trying to correct such false interpretations.
And for a fact, there has been many wars, between different Christian sects. There has been war between, Muslim sects. There has been war between Muslims and Christians. Bahai Faith sees all of these, as false understanding and abuse of Religions. In another words, true Islam which is Religion of God, would promote peace and unity. But those wars that are done in the name of Religion, is due to Religious fanaticism, and abuse and misinterpretations of Religion.

If it's Christians and Muslims you're having a problem with, please say that, and not use the term 'Religion'. There are many peace loving religions on this planet. It's an unfair characterisation. Would you like it if I said Baha'i' has proven to be war mongering, and that's why the Iranian government has had to step down on them?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Just a correction for you as I'm familiar with this one. The Sri Lankan civil war was Tamil versus Sinhalese, not Hindu versus Buddhist. The leaders of the Tamil Tigers were Christians.

So there was no conflict between Buddhists and Hindus? Many sources state it was a conflict between the two regardless of what the front organisation was named.

There seems to have been Hindu temples destroyed and Hindu statues thrown in the ocean. That's doesn't seem like just an ethnic clash.

Sri Lanka - CENTER FOR REDUCTION OF RELIGIOUS-BASED CONFLICT

Sri Lanka: Conflict profile

Destruction of Hindu Temples in Sri Lanka | Hindu Human Rights Online News Magazine

A conflict led by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elam (LTTE) on behalf of the Hindu Tamil minority against the Sri Lankan government and the Buddhist Sinhalese majority.

Sri Lanka: Civil War Along Ethno-religious Lines

 

[loverofhumanity]

Of course it does. In fact it always does. The writers always have bias. All you have to do is compare war statistics from two sides in a war. Each side will claim larger casualties for the other side, because they don't want their people to feel like they're losing the war.

Compare conqueror history versus victim history. Go speak with the Australian aboriginal community about how the Europeans came to their lands.

The idea that history is always true is about as plausible is infallibility. No truth to it whatsoever.

My point is only that the wars shouldnt have occurred in the first place. Disputes could have been settled amicably.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There is also self created misery by worrying too much about all this. Quite the conundrum.

Not so much worrying but helping solve problems through consultation. There are positive ways of solving problems.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Only the Most Great Peace is the one we refer to as the golden age of the Faith of Baha'u'llah. That is when the majority of humanity will have accepted His Faith many centuries from now.

That's the exact same concept I said in number four. When I say world peace, I'm saying greater peace (as already said). Following Bahaullah's teachings (as said below) is what you keep telling me what needs to happen. Also, you keep saying a couple of times that greater peace doesn't need agreement (permission) from other religions because it comes from god.

We are not 'fixing' any religion but rather leaving them to themselves because they cannot be fixed.

You used the term fixed. The concept is the same such as below.

Baha'u'llah has brought a new religion for today that accepts all the Founders and Holy Books of past Faiths with new teachings for the unity of humanity and the elimination of prejudices.

If religions aren't "fixed" or changed, there would be no need to bring in a new system.

I can't find the posts of the words you used but I do remember them well.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Here we go again...let me ask

History doesn't lie or camoflauge the truth. So on history alone we have never been a family.

You are judging a person's spirituality by the history of their religion. Do you actually believe their history defines their spirituality and that they are prone to wars because of it?

Wait. So if you became Catholic, would your beliefs lead you to prejudice?

I was born a catholic and I was taught in catholic schools that Jews were evil people. I felt uneasy from that day onwards.

That is why I feel your views are influenced by your upbringing. It's totally different for me coming in because I can evaluate the difference of these claims on [like RF, rather] RF and what people actually practice and belief without the indoctrination. I only met one person, though, who was indoctrinated in a retreat. She was in her late 50s and said finally she was allowed to read her bible.

When I went to the Church they had bible study. We had a library with all the books, bible included. Of course, we were encouraged to ask any questions about the bible. It was not singled out. So the Church has changed through the years. People before the mid 80s are probably stuck in the Vatican 2 changes and even before that, I'm said that they were in indoctrinated in Vatican 1 things.

But spirituality is individual or by community. Your uncomfortableness doesn't mirror other people (like myself) who are or were very comfortable with the Church (a few non-catholics here actually are and one was indoctrinated).

So, it's best to really get to know Catholics themselves. Looking at history, for me personally, would make me dump the Church and run for the hills someone in a ditch because of what America did and other wars etc.

But that's not me. I love people.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity

I noticed you didnt answer my questions.

Did that lead you towards prejudice?

I was Catholic too, I never felt nor taught anything towards prejudice and I felt comfortable too.

History doesn't address people's individual spirituality. Do you think it does?