How are these Great Beings explained?

[Dawnofhope]

Interpretations differ because spirituality is different for each person. Why would we expect each person to agree with another about their faith? @adrian009 expresses his view of Bahai faith different (and some opposite) than you do and you both identify as Bahai. Should I reinterpret your faith because of your disagreements and differences?

Its important to appreciate that @loverofhumanity and I are united in our faith though we come from different backgrounds and have a different perspective. We are comfortable with our diverse views. On the other hand I'm comfortable with your beliefs and with @Vinayaka . It is truly a privilege to be able to have these types of discussions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Its important to appreciate that @loverofhumanity and I are united in our faith though we come from different backgrounds and have a different perspective. We are comfortable with our diverse views. On the other hand I'm comfortable with your beliefs and with @Vinayaka . It is truly a privilege to be able to have these types of discussions.

Interpretations differ because spirituality is different for each person. Why would we expect each person to agree with another about their faith? @adrian009 expresses his view of Bahai faith different (and some opposite) than you do and you both identify as Bahai. Should I reinterpret your faith because of your disagreements and differences?

Even more so, if you two caused wars, who am I spiritually to change your religion and interpret your religion in order for you not to fight. If anything, it would be a legal and political manner I want to change not a spiritual one. Respecting diversity is respecting both of your point of views even though you express it differently.

However, what you're saying is not the case. You're basing a person's spirituality on other people's wars. Changing and reinterpreting their religion is not the answer. Addressing the legal and political issues are better. Religion is a personal thing. When you "renew" another religions regardless the motive that tears the heart of religion.

The former is political, the latter is about morals. We can help the politics but addressing people's morals are within that person and/or their community not an outside party.

The problem that I and @adrian have is mainly due to him being a fan of the All Blacks who keep stealing trophies from us Wallabies!! Although in our compassion and out of pity, we allow them to win, they think it's because they are really better than us. Lol. Ha! Ha!

Actually, I told Adrian anytime he's in Australia or any of you, to drop by for a meal. Would be nice to meet you all in person one day.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am unaware I'm avoiding anything.

The truth is the future of humanity is in the hands of the people of the world. That is why you will read Baha'u'llah often saying 'O Peoples of the World', because ultimately their future is their choice.

Neither Baha'u'llah nor us Baha'is can ever decide humanity's fate. That is in their and your hands alone.

What you omit is that for you, and by extension, that future involves Baha'u'llah.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What you omit is that for you, and by extension, that future involves Baha'u'llah.

We are 173 years old. Look at our miniscule numbers. The reason is simply because people have not chosen our religion so it's been up to the people always in the past and will continue to be in the future.

No matter what we say or believe or do, people will always decide for themselves. And we accept and respect that.

 

[Vinayaka]

We are 173 years old. Look at our miniscule numbers. The reason is simply because people have not chosen our religion so it's been up to the people always in the past and will continue to be in the future.

No matter what we say or believe or do, people will always decide for themselves. And we accept and respect that.

This is in stark contradiction to earlier posts, so it's good to see you can change your mind ... that's a sign of a willingness to learn.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is in stark contradiction to earlier posts, so it's good to see you can change your mind ... that's a sign of a willingness to learn.

I should have added that perspective to all my previous posts speaking about the future as it is always the case that humanity decide their own fate and we accept their judgement.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Its important to appreciate that @loverofhumanity and I are united in our faith though we come from different backgrounds and have a different perspective. We are comfortable with our diverse views. On the other hand I'm comfortable with your beliefs and with @Vinayaka . It is truly a privilege to be able to have these types of discussions.

As with christians, it does get confusing what bahai believe because, like christians, all of you have differing backgrounds. This brings up my point again about many truths. All of you are not alike. Id consider each of you have your own truth and branches of your own tree. We are still a sea of humanity but we have differences too.

In that light, if our differences caused wars, I would not expect someone outside our personal issues to solve our problem. Rather, it makes more sense to solve it between the parties involved.

@loverofhumanity, not to be rude, has more of a bias view in regards to humanity and their relationship with bahaullahs teachings. I know you try to understand a bit but its also the same with you and @InvestigateTruth that when we, @Vinayaka and I ask a question or isolated statement you dont address the question and/or statement but repeat another verse from Bahaullah (or sohaveyou).

I honestly dont know if this is a bahai method of answering questions of their religion. Loverofhumanity also mentioned he felt Bahaullahs words best describes what he wants to say.

The problem with quoting both christian and bahai alike is that a nonbeliever will have a different a disolated interpretation of the quoted. It will not Spark in our hearts that we "get it." It needs human interaction and explanation ---relating-- to the questions and/or statements at hand.

If this were the case, the thread would have ended threads ago. But quoting has prolonged it because it still doesnt give an idea of whst you guys -individually- think rather than referring to yourselves as a whole then one person says X the other Y and you expect more quotes can resolve the issue.

It does not. I cant phrase it any other way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The problem that I and @adrian have is mainly due to him being a fan of the All Blacks who keep stealing trophies from us Wallabies!! Although in our compassion and out of pity, we allow them to win, they think it's because they are really better than us. Lol. Ha! Ha!

Actually, I told Adrian anytime he's in Australia or any of you, to drop by for a meal. Would be nice to meet you all in person one day.

Haha. Fan of all the blacks, hu? Guess Adrian would have me in his favor. Well, dont know aboit the trophie issue, but wallabies??

 

[Dawnofhope]

Haha. Fan of all the blacks, hu? Guess Adrian would have me in his favor.

We can argue religion to the cows come home and still not get any milk. When it comes to rugby there's no debate. Everyone knows the truth!

Well, dont know aboit the trophie issue, but wallabies??

Wallabies are just wannabies

 

[loverofhumanity]

As with christians, it does get confusing what bahai believe because, like christians, all of you have differing backgrounds. This brings up my point again about many truths. All of you are not alike. Id consider each of you have your own truth and branches of your own tree. We are still a sea of humanity but we have differences too.

In that light, if our differences caused wars, I would not expect someone outside our personal issues to solve our problem. Rather, it makes more sense to solve it between the parties involved.

@loverofhumanity, not to be rude, has more of a bias view in regards to humanity and their relationship with bahaullahs teachings. I know you try to understand a bit but its also the same with you and @InvestigateTruth that when we, @Vinayaka and I ask a question or isolated statement you dont address the question and/or statement but repeat another verse from Bahaullah (or sohaveyou).

I honestly dont know if this is a bahai method of answering questions of their religion. Loverofhumanity also mentioned he felt Bahaullahs words best describes what he wants to say.

The problem with quoting both christian and bahai alike is that a nonbeliever will have a different a disolated interpretation of the quoted. It will not Spark in our hearts that we "get it." It needs human interaction and explanation ---relating-- to the questions and/or statements at hand.

If this were the case, the thread would have ended threads ago. But quoting has prolonged it because it still doesnt give an idea of whst you guys -individually- think rather than referring to yourselves as a whole then one person says X the other Y and you expect more quotes can resolve the issue.

It does not. I cant phrase it any other way.

We have diversity in our community but we agree upon the same basic truths.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Haha. Fan of all the blacks, hu? Guess Adrian would have me in his favor. Well, dont know aboit the trophie issue, but wallabies??

The All Blacks are a world champion Rugby Union side that we never seem to be able to beat.

Anyway I'm an avid New England Patriots fan and what a comeback Tom Brady's boys made to take the trophy!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We have diversity in our community but we agree upon the same basic truths.

It doesn't sound like it. With Christians, everyone all comes back to these basic tenants

1. Salvation
2. Jesus Christ
3. Everlasting life
4. Being born again
5. Authority of scripture

When you quote a paragraph or more of Bahaullah's message, I can't get anything from it. Especially when I comment on the quotes and you and the rest say something different than what you quoted. I pointed that out before and again you haven't addressed the statements.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It doesn't sound like it. With Christians, everyone all comes back to these basic tenants

1. Salvation
2. Jesus Christ
3. Everlasting life
4. Being born again
5. Authority of scripture

When you quote a paragraph or more of Bahaullah's message, I can't get anything from it. Especially when I comment on the quotes and you and the rest say something different than what you quoted. I pointed that out before and again you haven't addressed the statements.

We have basic beliefs or principles

• The oneness of God.
• The oneness of humanity.
• The oneness of religion.
• Progressive Revelation
• Equality of women and men.
• Harmony of religion and science.
• Universal compulsory education.
• Universal auxiliary language.
• The independent investigation of truth
• The elimination of all forms of prejudices
• Universal Peace
• World disarmament
• The spiritualisation of humanity
• The principle of consultation
• The elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty

And many, many more. The Words of our Foundeds say exactly what I want to say but I understand that for you I might have to simplify it even at the expense of watering it down but I can try.

Some Baha'is will explain progressive Revelation as the growth of a human being, others as classes in a school. But we all be,I've in progressive Revelation.

There are so many principles and so many ways of explaining them but these are our basic principles.

The main one though is that we believe Baha'u'llah is the Promised One foretold in all the major religions with Teachers and so fulfills them.

 

[Vinayaka]

Most people with an ounce of observational skills look both at belief and at behaviour. Belief in an of itself is useless unless there is behaviour based on that belief.

When there is hypocrisy people can see it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We are 173 years old. Look at our miniscule numbers. The reason is simply because people have not chosen our religion so it's been up to the people always in the past and will continue to be in the future.

No matter what we say or believe or do, people will always decide for themselves. And we accept and respect that.

Why would it be up to the people?

That is an odd statement to say "its up to the people if they honor my family in spirit as I honor them".

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why would it be up to the people?

That is an odd statement to say "its up to the people if they honor my family in spirit as I honor them".

We were talking about the future of humanity and that's up to people to decide don't you think?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We were talking about the future of humanity and that's up to people to decide don't you think?

Depends. I feel future of humanity is not a collective term. Peace doesn't mean holding each other's hands in a circle.

Others feel we should be in a circle regardless of what the people think about it. I feel that humanity doesn't need to be in unity to be at peace.

...but that's me.

Why would it be up to the people [for them to choose your religion today or in the future]?

What peace does your religion give you that say christianity doesn't give to a christian?

If both are the same peace, why be Bahai?

 

[Vinayaka]

The main one though is that we believe Baha'u'llah is the Promised One foretold in all the major religions with Teachers and so fulfills them.

That's probably also the main one that all other faiths disagree with too.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Depends. I feel future of humanity is not a collective term. Peace doesn't mean holding each other's hands in a circle.

Others feel we should be in a circle regardless of what the people think about it. I feel that humanity doesn't need to be in unity to be at peace.

...but that's me.

Why would it be up to the people [for them to choose your religion today or in the future]?

What peace does your religion give you that say christianity doesn't give to a christian?

If both are the same peace, why be Bahai?

Firstly, I mean humanity will always choose its own destiny no matter what religion comes along.

With regards to what peace a Bahá'í might have that one wouldn't have as a Christian.

How would we measure such a thing? I think it's all subjective and depends on the individual.

The only real difference is Baha'is believe Christ has already returned and Christians still await His Return.

Here's some possible scenarios though we could consider.

If it's true and Christ has returned and Christians missed it what would that mean?

If Christ has returned and Baha'is who were once Christians didn't miss His return what would that mean?

If Christians discover that He has returned then how would their peace now be as compared to before they didn't know He had returned?

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's probably also the main one that all other faiths disagree with too.

Yes I agree. And you and Carlita are dead right that it's going to cause problems. Not because we want it to but by it's very nature.

Religions basically own and control their followers with carefully planned dogma intended to keep their followers from leaving as they are a source of both wealth and power.

Now comes along an infant Faith announcing that their Promised One has appeared. How are they going to react?

“How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause.

..so soon as the full measure of the stupendous claim of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh comes to be recognized by those time-honored and powerful strongholds of orthodoxy, whose deliberate aim is to maintain their stranglehold over the thoughts and consciences of men, this infant Faith will have to contend with enemies more powerful and more insidious than the cruellest torture-mongers and the most fanatical clerics who have afflicted it in the past.