How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

I can't debate in two directions. But I'll try..............
If Bahais have been arrested, charged, tried and convicted because they had a belief, and nothing else, please source the trials for me to see. If you can find any Budhists, Christians, Zoorasters, Hindus, JWs, Mormons, Deists, Atheists etc who were arrested for beliefs then post 'em up.

Don't quote a trial at me where a Bahai was charged with 'doing something'........ you need to quote a trial where a Bahai was arrested for doing 'nothing but believing'.

And while you're about it, and if you want to enter this part of the debate, you can do your best to give some other figures, as asked of the other member.

Here..... I'll copy them for you:-
We need to know how many Bahais live in Iran.
We need to know facts such as 'How many executions take place in Iran each month and how many Bahais have been executed in the last month, or year, or decade........ take your pick.
We need to know why any Bahais have been arrested, how many of those were actually convicted, any sentences handed out, and what crimes the convicts were charged with.

See how easy I make it for you?

You make it very difficult because the Iran government is not transparent about its persecution of Baha’is.

The Iranian government ‘officially’ does not charge Baha’is for their beliefs. Revolutionary Guards usually just turn up to a Baha’is place of residence arrests them interrogates them to try and get them to recant their Faith then throws them in jail. Official paperwork is not available. They deny doing these things and there is no paper trail so as not to incriminate them as these constitute war crimes and ethnic cleansing and they know it. So they turn up at the UN and say they treat everyone equally and that all is lovey dovey.

I think there are about 300,000 Baha’is in Iran.

But there are some authentic translated official Iranian documents regarding persecuting Baha’is.

But it’s all documented by the UN and beyond any doubt that it is religious persecution not for breaking any law.

UN News - Persistent persecution of Bahá’í in Yemen ‘unacceptable,’ and must stop, says UN expert

Text of secret Iran letter ordering "monitoring" of Baha'is made public

http://dl.bahai.org/bwns/assets/documentlibrary/473_02.pdf

http://dl.bahai.org/bwns/assets/documentlibrary/575/1_LetterFromMinistriesToUniversities_en.pdf

Iran’s secret blueprint for the destruction of the Baha’i community - Bahá’í World News Service

 

[loverofhumanity]

I can't debate in two directions. But I'll try..............
If Bahais have been arrested, charged, tried and convicted because they had a belief, and nothing else, please source the trials for me to see. If you can find any Budhists, Christians, Zoorasters, Hindus, JWs, Mormons, Deists, Atheists etc who were arrested for beliefs then post 'em up.

Don't quote a trial at me where a Bahai was charged with 'doing something'........ you need to quote a trial where a Bahai was arrested for doing 'nothing but believing'.

And while you're about it, and if you want to enter this part of the debate, you can do your best to give some other figures, as asked of the other member.

Here..... I'll copy them for you:-
We need to know how many Bahais live in Iran.
We need to know facts such as 'How many executions take place in Iran each month and how many Bahais have been executed in the last month, or year, or decade........ take your pick.
We need to know why any Bahais have been arrested, how many of those were actually convicted, any sentences handed out, and what crimes the convicts were charged with.

See how easy I make it for you?

Have a rest. We can leave it at that. You can also google any human rights organization such as amnesty or human rights watch and type Bahai as well as look at the UN website all the condemnations against Iran.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hi Carlita

If we, all non-bahai, said in our replies "No," we are not in desire of a great spiritual teacher...

Our guides, gods, and/or many many teachers are no more different than you and I as a part of god, as great leaders, or as more than one teacher with whom are not greater or lesser but equal in relation to human beings...

How would you reply without telling us what you (bahai) believe?

Thanks for sharing your belief. I'm interested to hear more and how that works for you. I personally would like to hear how your involvement with Buddhism has been.

Since the questions were directed to non-bahai (as well), wouldnt it be sensible to learn about our answers and the beliefs or opinions supporting them?

Would there be a need to express bahai beliefs more so than learn from others since the questions were meant to engage non-bahai rather than reflect positive or agreeable answers among those in your own faith?

We have two ears and one mouth. Wouldn't it be great of more of us could be better listeners?

Are you asking to learn from us or share your beliefs in relations to our reply?

We are all individuals and we each bring to the table differing expectations.

I'm very happy to talk about religions other than the Baha'i Faith. I don't really mind what we talk about, providing its in the spirit of genuine interfaith dialogue, and not one person incessantly disparaging another.

 

[oldbadger]

No I will leave this alone after this quick post.

Yeah, you do that..............
Quick post, and run............

I have l Already posted ample information to all that explains the true situation in Iran.

No you have not, and anything you did post was oblique.

Many are arrested without charges or reasons.
Five Iranian Baha’is Arrested in Isfahan Without Warrant on Unknown Charges

We don't much like Iranian policies or law, here, but we can do better than that for detached research!

Discussions and limited research have already pointed to the fact that these households were probably holding meetings with illegal numbers of people. BREACH OF LAW. We have similar laws in Britain in connection with various Union Actions such as picket line numbers, etc. so we know about such laws.

Where I live, when police raid a home they don't wave bits of paper like our Court Sheriffs have to, and they don't have a chance to show Court Warrants..... in many cases UK Police can raid homes without warrants if they have already arrested one offender and gained information from same.

Your report was made by a Bahai, I notice.. .............. Simin Fahandej, the faith’s spokesperson ...........confirmed .............

If you cannot answer straight questions and seek out strong facts then, 'yes', it would be best if you would leave it...... right there.

 

[oldbadger]

You make it very difficult because the Iran government is not transparent about its persecution of Baha’is.

We are not talking about Iran making it 'difficult' for Bahais..... and Christians and Hindus and Sunni-Muslims and atheists and foreign journalists and western visitors (see? a detached person thinks of all those in difficulties)

We are talking about Bahais specifically who are detained, arrested, charged, tried, convicted and sentenced for alleged criminal offences in Iran.

The Iranian government ‘officially’ does not charge Baha’is for their beliefs. Revolutionary Guards usually just turn up to a Baha’is place of residence arrests them interrogates them to try and get them to recant their Faith then throws them in jail. Official paperwork is not available. They deny doing these things and there is no paper trail so as not to incriminate them as these constitute war crimes and ethnic cleansing and they know it. So they turn up at the UN and say they treat everyone equally and that all is lovey dovey.

Give me ..... ummm....... two cases in the last ..... ummm... 6 months, where this has happened to a Bahai household 'where no criminal charges were brought against them'.

I think there are about 300,000 Baha’is in Iran.

Thankyou I really appreciate that you came forward and gave your best answer. I have read that the Bahai UHJ has proposed about 100,000, and I read from Sen (I think) that there might be 30,000 Bahais in Tehran.

These guestimates help quite a lot because it helps us to see the numbers of 'incidents' as a % of possible Bahai population.

But there are some authentic translated official Iranian documents regarding persecuting Baha’is.

But it’s all documented by the UN and beyond any doubt that it is religious persecution not for breaking any law.

Yemen?
Let me say that Yemen is one of the most dangerous countries in the World. Even Muslims in Yemen are in extreme danger. Piracy is the worst in the World I believe.

The Children dying in Yemen through starvation while bandits steal the charity food stocks is dreadful.

I wouldn't go to Yemen and I'm a Deist.

Text of secret Iran letter ordering "monitoring" of Baha'is made public

Of course. Bahai is an offshoot of two other religions, all three apostates of (paticularly) Shia-Islam.
Of course they are going to monitor Bahai and ALL the other religions + Foreigners + dual nationals + foreign diplomats.

In a Bahai World, with, say, 80% Bahai p[opulation, and some mystic started preaching a new way in the streets (whatever) and started to draw Bahais away from Bahai to her/his way, do you think your NSA NHJ there would keep an eye out?

Look......... in a Shia-Islam country Bahais need to be guided by their NSA/UHJ to keep low profiles and to keep the laws exactly. That's responsible guidance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We are not talking about Iran making it 'difficult' for Bahais..... and Christians and Hindus and Sunni-Muslims and atheists and foreign journalists and western visitors (see? a detached person thinks of all those in difficulties)

We are talking about Bahais specifically who are detained, arrested, charged, tried, convicted and sentenced for alleged criminal offences in Iran.


Give me ..... ummm....... two cases in the last ..... ummm... 6 months, where this has happened to a Bahai household 'where no criminal charges were brought against them'.


Thankyou I really appreciate that you came forward and gave your best answer. I have read that the Bahai UHJ has proposed about 100,000, and I read from Sen (I think) that there might be 30,000 Bahais in Tehran.

These guestimates help quite a lot because it helps us to see the numbers of 'incidents' as a % of possible Bahai population.


Yemen?
Let me say that Yemen is one of the most dangerous countries in the World. Even Muslims in Yemen are in extreme danger. Piracy is the worst in the World I believe.

The Children dying in Yemen through starvation while bandits steal the charity food stocks is dreadful.

I wouldn't go to Yemen and I'm a Deist.


Of course. Bahai is an offshoot of two other religions, all three apostates of (paticularly) Shia-Islam.
Of course they are going to monitor Bahai and ALL the other religions + Foreigners + dual nationals + foreign diplomats.

In a Bahai World, with, say, 80% Bahai p[opulation, and some mystic started preaching a new way in the streets (whatever) and started to draw Bahais away from Bahai to her/his way, do you think your NSA NHJ there would keep an eye out?

Look......... in a Shia-Islam country Bahais need to be guided by their NSA/UHJ to keep low profiles and to keep the laws exactly. That's responsible guidance.

Problem is sources. But here is the kind of charges continually used to justify imprisonment.

The false and wrongful charges

Iran 2016/2017

To my knowledge the charges are mostly trumped up ‘national security charges’ like espionage for Israel or ‘corrupting the land’ in reference to believing in another Prophet after Muhammad.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I ldefinitely learned a lot of things from this forum and thread and met some wonderful people in the process. I now know some of the reasons why people didn’t agree on some points.

Some felt that it was ‘cultural appropriation’ to see all these Great Beings as one. Others gave the reason that they just don’t believe in great beings or infallibility because they feel we can learn from meditation. These Great Beings comprise both Abrahamic and Dharmic Teachers so there were views expressed against the Abrahamic Educators by those Who accepted Teachers like Buddha. Then we went into whether They all taught about God. We discussed reincarnation which some claim was taught by one or two of these Educators. We discussed whether Krishna was God or a Manifestation of God, remember that? Whether Buddha indirectly referred to God.

Questions were raised about what the correct sources of our information should come from. Christ? The Bible? Christians?

We agreed that one can only truly experience a religion from the inside but maintained that truth is in all religions and we can all learn from every Educator. We discussed ahimsa and Ghandi and Swami Vivekananda.

We spoke about unity in diversity, world peace, unity of religion and the fors and againsts. How deeds and service are more important than words only.

Educators are not only important but aren’t they essential? So as they have influenced and continue to influence our entire planet then shouldn’t we try and find out Who they really are and where They actually originated from?

If they are just normal beings then we can easily repeat their feats. Surely if it was because They had charisma we too can proclaim a Cause which future kings and queens will bow down before, centuries from now? Or write a Quran which billions will follow or be honored with thousands of temples churches and pagodas.

Theses Great Beings are as involved in our human history as the air we each breath so can we really just ignore them when our lives and future and world are being mounded after their laws and teachings?

Where can we go from there?

Give you learned this, why would you end a discussion if we l said "no" to your OP? I have to go back to that post. My overall point is dkd you understand all this by asking. All of us non-bahai defended our faith by telling you the difference that didnt correlate by bahai not as if we were asked. When you defend your faith, there is not much learning/application of knowledge in our noggy. I learned that some bahai equate bahullah as god whole others as a teacher and educator. I asked the differences and only one bahai explained it fully. No bahai talked much on buddbism yet it and hinduism is part of your faith. Why dont you know more a out thsse to religions from thejr followers? Another bahai mentioned that (my words) we cant trust men to understand scriptures but only the books when both hinduism and buddhism can knly be learned by practice. Buddhism it depends on the tradition though in where the emphasis is. Things like Vajrassatva prayers can be found online but only can be fully realized by actual belief and empowerment blessings at ceremony.

I dont mind talking about buddhism practice. There isnt anything secret in most traditions I practiced. Kadampa seems to have secret practices assuming only for nuns and teachers.

If The Buddha is apart of your faith and leads to god, then all other gods would need to be believed in and understood to know what The Buddha taught beyond his scriptures. But many Bahai said scriptures is the key. I dont know if you all understand why it is not.

Anyway, how did you apply the knowledge, though? Once you disagreed with it, what purpose did it service? Did it change your views on some things you thought were true but we told you and some showed you it is not? For example, I thaught awhile back Brahma and Brahman were the same. Now I knos Brahma is rarely worshiped and is not the same. I changed my belief to reflect what is fact not keep my opinion over it whenIm not a practitioner.

Thats what I mean by learning? How did it affect you?

Some said that they didnt want to compromise their faith and I asked why they believed this and they actually dodged the answer and the told me why he ignored it. So when thingz are personal (questioning intention) questions are ignored. When about bahaullah, the answers pick up again.

This is not teaching. So, all we did was learned by bahai repetition. I did look up the bahai site and posted informatio that contradicted one bahai belief. It wasnt addressed.

This is all about bahai faith. Why do you think I feel The Dharma does not decay and if you remember, is it different than what you bdlieve or false?

Oh. We did ask given we are just man and only scripture is reliable, does that make non bahai liers compares to bahai beliefs. I guess it was too negative question. I ca t figure how to rephrase it to kesp my point emphasised

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hi Carlita



Thanks for sharing your belief. I'm interested to hear more and how that works for you. I personally would like to hear how your involvement with Buddhism has been.



We have two ears and one mouth. Wouldn't it be great of more of us could be better listeners?



We are all individuals and we each bring to the table differing expectations.

I'm very happy to talk about religions other than the Baha'i Faith. I don't really mind what we talk about, providing its in the spirit of genuine interfaith dialogue, and not one person incessantly disparaging another.

Actually, I think youre the only one that would talk more about non bahai faith. Though your and a fea bahai here conversations about bahai dates, history, and biblical scripture goes over my head lf expertice but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@adrian009

Since the questions were directed to non-bahai (as well), wouldnt it be sensible to learn about our answers and the beliefs or opinions supporting them?

Lover said he would have ended the discussion.

If non bahai didnt defend our faith, what would you ask/say to us in regards to our reply?

 

[oldbadger]

Problem is sources. But here is the kind of charges continually used to justify imprisonment.

The false and wrongful charges Iran 2016/2017

To my knowledge the charges are mostly trumped up ‘national security charges’ like espionage for Israel or ‘corrupting the land’ in reference to believing in another Prophet after Muhammad.

Any crime (in Iran) such as 'Corrupting the Land' will probably be a genuine crime, possibly even a Capital Crime, because of course Iran is ruled by a SShi'a-Islamic theocracy.

Espionage is another. I won't comment about any existing 'situations' between the UK and Iran because at this time our Foreign Secretary is working hard with severe headaches over a particular situation there.

If you enter 'Boris Johnson' together with 'Iran' into google you'll probably find out all about it, but no responsible Brit should make comment on any World Forum just now.

My point is that all different religions, cultures, nationalities and races are having all manner of difficulties in Iran today. For Bahai media to focus only on the Bahais having difficulties is a shame. Bahai media should be encouraging (ordering) Bahais openly to keep exactly to Iranian laws exactly exactly exactly. After all, that is Bahai law............

Iran sees Bahai as an apostatic enemy that would bring its downfall if it could. Just imagine what a Bahai country would do to such a threat, after all, a Bahai country would be crushing any opposition FOR GOD! Imagine that, anything you do and everything you do being on behalf of GOD and all the opposition is wicked criminal ignorance...? Maybe that's what Iran thinks? Wow!

 

[Vinayaka]

I called them Great Beings but to you maybe they are just gurus or ordinary people. That’s fine. But what was it that they were able and still are able to influence history and civilization so deeply?

I think it matters because the direction the world takes is being influenced greatly by Their teachings and laws. Also many of our laws of society come from Them.

I don't think the influence is all that great, directly, but more from what happened later. Like I've said before, just good marketing, and lots of gullible people.

 

[Vinayaka]

Is not Sivaya Subramuniyaswami one of the leaders you follow? I have some of his books and have read some of them and really liked a lot of what I perused.

Oh. Which books do you own? What are they about?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Where can we go from there?

Give you learned this, why would you end a discussion if we l said "no" to your OP? I have to go back to that post. My overall point is dkd you understand all this by asking. All of us non-bahai defended our faith by telling you the difference that didnt correlate by bahai not as if we were asked. When you defend your faith, there is not much learning/application of knowledge in our noggy. I learned that some bahai equate bahullah as god whole others as a teacher and educator. I asked the differences and only one bahai explained it fully. No bahai talked much on buddbism yet it and hinduism is part of your faith. Why dont you know more a out thsse to religions from thejr followers? Another bahai mentioned that (my words) we cant trust men to understand scriptures but only the books when both hinduism and buddhism can knly be learned by practice. Buddhism it depends on the tradition though in where the emphasis is. Things like Vajrassatva prayers can be found online but only can be fully realized by actual belief and empowerment blessings at ceremony.

I dont mind talking about buddhism practice. There isnt anything secret in most traditions I practiced. Kadampa seems to have secret practices assuming only for nuns and teachers.

If The Buddha is apart of your faith and leads to god, then all other gods would need to be believed in and understood to know what The Buddha taught beyond his scriptures. But many Bahai said scriptures is the key. I dont know if you all understand why it is not.

Anyway, how did you apply the knowledge, though? Once you disagreed with it, what purpose did it service? Did it change your views on some things you thought were true but we told you and some showed you it is not? For example, I thaught awhile back Brahma and Brahman were the same. Now I knos Brahma is rarely worshiped and is not the same. I changed my belief to reflect what is fact not keep my opinion over it whenIm not a practitioner.

Thats what I mean by learning? How did it affect you?

Some said that they didnt want to compromise their faith and I asked why they believed this and they actually dodged the answer and the told me why he ignored it. So when thingz are personal (questioning intention) questions are ignored. When about bahaullah, the answers pick up again.

This is not teaching. So, all we did was learned by bahai repetition. I did look up the bahai site and posted informatio that contradicted one bahai belief. It wasnt addressed.

This is all about bahai faith. Why do you think I feel The Dharma does not decay and if you remember, is it different than what you bdlieve or false?

Oh. We did ask given we are just man and only scripture is reliable, does that make non bahai liers compares to bahai beliefs. I guess it was too negative question. I ca t figure how to rephrase it to kesp my point emphasised

Carlita I’m happy to delve deep into any question but one at a time as I find it ridicule to focus on multi question posts. So I will ask if we can address each question or issue fully rather than try and cover too much ground at once.

One of the things I learned from this forum and definitely adjusted was my understanding and belief as a Bahá’í in Hinduism.

The Hinduism that I belive in is the one which accepts that God sends Avatars to the earth to renew religion and we accept Krishna as one of them and the Bhagavad-Gita As His Holy Book.

Let’s go one by one question and as deep as you like but my belief is that the Bahá’í Faith teaches the essence of all the major Faiths. It doesn’t include all the traditions and customs as we are establishing a new world civilisation which will have its own traditions and customs and world culture.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Any crime (in Iran) such as 'Corrupting the Land' will probably be a genuine crime, possibly even a Capital Crime, because of course Iran is ruled by a SShi'a-Islamic theocracy.

Espionage is another. I won't comment about any existing 'situations' between the UK and Iran because at this time our Foreign Secretary is working hard with severe headaches over a particular situation there.

If you enter 'Boris Johnson' together with 'Iran' into google you'll probably find out all about it, but no responsible Brit should make comment on any World Forum just now.

My point is that all different religions, cultures, nationalities and races are having all manner of difficulties in Iran today. For Bahai media to focus only on the Bahais having difficulties is a shame. Bahai media should be encouraging (ordering) Bahais openly to keep exactly to Iranian laws exactly exactly exactly. After all, that is Bahai law............

Iran sees Bahai as an apostatic enemy that would bring its downfall if it could. Just imagine what a Bahai country would do to such a threat, after all, a Bahai country would be crushing any opposition FOR GOD! Imagine that, anything you do and everything you do being on behalf of GOD and all the opposition is wicked criminal ignorance...? Maybe that's what Iran thinks? Wow!

If you’ve read any of the messages of the Universal House of Justice over the last decade or two you will find often mention of sorrow for all Iranians not just Baha’is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't think the influence is all that great, directly, but more from what happened later. Like I've said before, just good marketing, and lots of gullible people.

I think the the pure heart is attracted to God and the Prophets.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think the the pure heart is attracted to God and the Prophets.

This is Baha'i belief, yes. But what would I expect now, after so long? I am attracted to God, but not the prophets. So are you saying now that my heart is not pure. Can I add that to the long list of insults?

I think you should read all the negative stuff you can about Hinduism. You get a far better balanced viewpoint when you do. I've read many ex-Baha'i testimonies, and I've learned so much. Some people, after 20 or more years in dedicated service, came to the heart wrenching decision to leave their community. It saddened their families, brought new challenges, but also exposed some of the challenges within the Baha'i community.

When you're only allowed to read one side, there is no balance, no reason to have to think, because over many years of repeating those beliefs, you become like a robot, parroting, and parroting, I find it quite sad, really, that so much of humanity is stuck in some dogma 'us versus them' mentality, and are the main causes for wars, stress, and other troubles on this planet. Fundamentalism isn't religion, it's fundamentalism. Whether it's Baha'i, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, atheism, materialism, or any other ism, the very moment you get the condescending attitude that my view is better than your view, that's what causes problems. Of course in Baha'i the Guardian especially warned people to not even associate with non-believers, let alone read stuff written by them.

Mutual respect is what's needed, but not for fundamentalism. God created many wonderful religions (and philosophies) for us all. Pick one, stick with it, better yourself, and then leave the rest of us the ______ alone.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita I’m happy to delve deep into any question but one at a time as I find it ridicule to focus on multi question posts. So I will ask if we can address each question or issue fully rather than try and cover too much ground at once.

One of the things I learned from this forum and definitely adjusted was my understanding and belief as a Bahá’í in Hinduism.

The Hinduism that I belive in is the one which accepts that God sends Avatars to the earth to renew religion and we accept Krishna as one of them and the Bhagavad-Gita As His Holy Book.

Let’s go one by one question and as deep as you like but my belief is that the Bahá’í Faith teaches the essence of all the major Faiths. It doesn’t include all the traditions and customs as we are establishing a new world civilisation which will have its own traditions and customs and world culture.

I was trying to shorten my posts so you can reply to the most recent.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Oh. Which books do you own? What are they about?

How to become a Hindu a guide for seekers and born Hindus.

Some nice things in there such as naming ceremonies and letters of consent to leave other religionsa. There is 9 question section which speaks about things like karm and reincarnation. God Siva is love. It also goes into other Faiths a lot.

Merging with Siva is a really deep mystical book about realizing God and goes deep into reincarnation.

Then there’s the Lemurian Scrolls which I can’t grasp. A lot of topics about ages and history.

But I do find when it gets to Indian names I start getting confused and find it hard to focus but it’s like with anything that’s unfamiliar at first.

 

[Vinayaka]

How to become a Hindu a guide for seekers and born Hindus.

Some nice things in there such as naming ceremonies and letters of consent to leave other religionsa. There is 9 question section which speaks about things like karm and reincarnation. God Siva is love. It also goes into other Faiths a lot.

Merging with Siva is a really deep mystical book about realizing God and goes deep into reincarnation.

Then there’s the Lemurian Scrolls which I can’t grasp. A lot of topics about ages and history.

But I do find when it gets to Indian names I start getting confused and find it hard to focus but it’s like with anything that’s unfamiliar at first.

I hope you deeply considered the idea of 'ethical conversion' in the first one. It stops the proselytizing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is Baha'i belief, yes. But what would I expect now, after so long? I am attracted to God, but not the prophets. So are you saying now that my heart is not pure. Can I add that to the long list of insults?

I think you should read all the negative stuff you can about Hinduism. You get a far better balanced viewpoint when you do. I've read many ex-Baha'i testimonies, and I've learned so much. Some people, after 20 or more years in dedicated service, came to the heart wrenching decision to leave their community. It saddened their families, brought new challenges, but also exposed some of the challenges within the Baha'i community.

When you're only allowed to read one side, there is no balance, no reason to have to think, because over many years of repeating those beliefs, you become like a robot, parroting, and parroting, I find it quite sad, really, that so much of humanity is stuck in some dogma 'us versus them' mentality, and are the main causes for wars, stress, and other troubles on this planet. Fundamentalism isn't religion, it's fundamentalism. Whether it's Baha'i, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, atheism, materialism, or any other ism, the very moment you get the condescending attitude that my view is better than your view, that's what causes problems. Of course in Baha'i the Guardian especially warned people to not even associate with non-believers, let alone read stuff written by them.

Mutual respect is what's needed, but not for fundamentalism. God created many wonderful religions (and philosophies) for us all. Pick one, stick with it, better yourself, and then leave the rest of us the ______ alone.

You were saying that people who were influenced by these Great Teachers were gullible and I said that I believed that that was not the case and that the reason they were attracted to those Educators was because they were pure hearted. You may be pure hearted as well, it’s not for me to judge.