How are these Great Beings explained?

[Dawnofhope]

But what have they really done? They've come to the point to where they don't believe in the literal truth of their religion any more. But I've seen it when one of those people joined the Baha'i Faith. A friend become a Baha'i, but a "liberal" Baha'i. First thing she had to do was sign a "declaration" card. What kind of "spiritual" experience is that? She was such a free spirit, that she didn't fit in well with the Baha'i rules. Which to some of us could also be called the "D" word, dogma. Anyway, she dropped out, but not before she had to serve on the Baha'i community governing body, the "Local Spiritual Assembly". It was a business meeting... minutes, Robert's rules of order, and talking about organizing a picnic. Definitely not what she expected.

I have served on spiritual assemblies for nearly 20 years. It is a huge paradigm shift for communities to have elected representatives administering the affairs of their faith rather than priests and ministers. It has been a steep learning curve for some Baha'is to engage effectively as members of these institutions. One goal of an effective assembly is to create a community atmosphere were all people feel welcomed, loved, and valued. There is also promoting and encouraging individual initiative. A well functioning assembly shouldn't need to be consulting about organising picnics.

Most organisations require a small amount of administration as to enrolment and managing membership. For the Baha'is this is minimal but still required.

Sorry to hear your friends experience with becoming a Baha'i was not a positive one.

 

[loverofhumanity]

500,000 years? That's quite an aspiration.

There's been many such cycles in our history so a lot of beliefs or so called 'myths' are likely remnants from them.

In that time we will have colonised a few universes and established civilisations on distant galaxies.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You say you are pagan right?

Yes. All pagan and Pagan religions I know of and religions that are not to themselves pagan though called such have always been, always be, and always will be shaped by our traditions, culture, and language. Thats one of the beautiful things about pagan religions that I dont see in nondenominational christianity, UU, charasmatic churches, and new age faiths.

The difference between my belief and yours is you don't acknowledge there's a God right? But you still acknowledge things like love, patience, the virtues, the spiritual sentiments? Then spiritually we have some spiritual truths in common right?

Your love, patience, the virtues, the spiritual sentiments are based on a different source than mine.

Since the source is different so is our definitions/expressions of thr source. They are embedded in each other. Understand?

At the core, no we are not the same. On surface level what you are saying, yes we can say that. But you asked me if I acknowledged god...

If we had the same truth, you would need not ask me because" we would have the same foundation; same truth".

Understand?

No you're not wrong or lying. You belief in truth your way and I believe it a different way and I respect that. I never said I'm a Hindu, another Hindu site said that. I said I have things in common with all Faiths not that I am a member of any one of them, as I am a Baha'i.

There are too many posts to look it up. You said you didnt understand hinduism, you share the mind of a hindu, you said given your multicultural experience and hindu you met said you were hindu because you share the same goals, then the last comment was "of course, Im bahai. Im not Hindu"

See why Im confused?

I understand spirituality is supposed to be based on the teachings of the Manifestation for the day but that over time traditions replace the original reasonings and become the Faith which is why we need Manifestations to keep appearing to renew religion from time to time.

I know this is your belief.

Do you understand that people do not want their traditions to change because that is their spirituality?

Do you see, if youre respecting and understanding others point of view "through our Differences" that renewing religions is degrading them?

Many Pagan and minority faiths fight hard from keeping others from changing their religion. Take judaism to christianity.

This is no different.

Understand?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

There's been many such cycles in our history

Our history? No. Modern Humanity is only about 125,000 years old. So saying that one specific religious cycle is going to be five times that length is... well, preposterous.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If we had the same truth, you would need not ask me because" we would have the same foundation; same truth".

With the things we have in common there's no need to ask but maybe yes with paganism we don't come from the same roots. We believe in Divinely revealed religion.

You said you didnt understand hinduism, you share the mind of a hindu, you said given your multicultural experience and hindu you met said you were hindu because you share the same goals, then the last comment was "of course, Im bahai. Im not Hindu"

It was a Hindu site that said we are all Hindus if we do good not me.

I'm a Baha'i that accepts parts of Hinduism.

Do you see, if youre respecting and understanding others point of view "through our Differences" that renewing religions is degrading them?

Nothing, not even religion lasts forever in this world.

Nothing can stop change. The world, its people's and religions are ever evolving.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Our history? No. Modern Humanity is only about 125,000 years old. So saying that one specific religious cycle is going to be five times that length is... well, preposterous.

How long has man lived on this earth? 6 million years? Enough for a few 500,000 cycles. Just because we have no records of those times doesn't mean there weren't civilisations and Manifestations millions of years ago and that, as there are now, there wont continue to be, millions of years into the future, not necessarily only on this planet.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

How long has man lived on this earth? 6 million years?

As Modern Man with the capacity for civilization, intelligence, ect? At most 1 million years. How long has man had religion? Somewhere around 100,000 years. Now you tell me; how much has religion changed and fluxed, with no one religion lasting longer than 4,000 years within those 100,000 years?

Yet you're aiming for five times that total length for the longevity of one religious empire. Spanning the galaxy--the universe, even. How does Baha'i plan to keep the peace that you talk about here over that huge of a stage? I'll be completely frank; it's that level of planning big (or hinting at non-specific wonders of the future) that are a major turn off.

 

[Vinayaka]

On one hand I make no apology for being a Baha'i and on the other do not wish to offend anyone.

Then why the eye roll, or do you not know what that means?

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm a Baha'i that accepts parts of Hinduism.

How can you possibly say this? Firstly, you don't even know much about Hinduism, and secondly, you openly disagree with much of what Hindus believe. Two very obvious examples are reincarnation, and the belief in Baha'u' llah and other prophets.

It's double talk ... simplistic platitudes, and then contradicting those.

Which parts?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You forgot to quote me.

With the things we have in common there's no need to ask but maybe yes with paganism we don't come from the same roots. We believe in Divinely revealed religion.

A Hindu is telling you the exact same thing I am. We have different roots.

If we all humunity share the same truth it cannot just be divinely revealed religions.

Do you understand that sectioning off one percent of humunity and making their truth everyone's truth is disrespectful?

If you mean humanity, paganism is included. If just revealed religions, at least give them the respect that they hold their own truth (not belief-truth) and it is not part of your own.

Nothing can stop change. The world, its people's and religions are ever evolving.

People fight (not fought) fight to keep their traditions because that is a part of who they are and their spirituality their truth.

Thats like saying because I am not like my family in the 10th century, I should disregard my family traditions so things can change.

Do you understand why people want to preserve their traditions?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Then why the eye roll, or do you not know what that means?

I thought it was gazing mystically towards heaven.

Emoji use is not my forte.

 

[Vinayaka]

I thought it was gazing mystically towards heaven.

Emoji use is not my forte.

It means you're annoyed, lol.

Carry on then.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Never mind that it's labeled "rollseyes"?

 

[Dawnofhope]

It means you're annoyed, lol.

Carry on then.

lol. I rarely get annoyed and have never felt that way towards you.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Never mind that it's labeled "rollseyes"?

We all have our blind spots and moments of stupidity. I just liked the way the Emoji looked.

 

[Vinayaka]

lol. I rarely get annoyed and have never felt that way towards you.

Because I'm getting doublespeak from another Bahai, I figured it might be a Bahai tradition.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Because I'm getting doublespeak from another Bahai, I figured it might be a Bahai tradition.

Yes very funny. You guys seem to be having one of those conversations where you're not quite getting each other. I think its a communication issue, rather than a religious tradition issue.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I thought it was gazing mystically towards heaven.

Emoji use is not my forte.

Ha. It can also be seen as sarcasm: mmhm yeahm right

I usually use them for non serious topics unless its just a smile.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Ha. It can also be seen as sarcasm: mmhm yeahm right

I usually use them for non serious topics unless its just a smile.

Sounds like a good approach.

I know I've used it a few times when I've posted to Carlita so hope you haven't taken it the wrong way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Sounds like a good approach.

I know I've used it a few times when I've posted to Carlita so hope you haven't taken it the wrong way.

Well, I kinda have the same sentiments as @Vinayaka about talking to another Bahai. Were thinking what you guys say represent the bahai faith itself. But your approach is not defensive. I think one of you said that it was forbidden in bahai tradition?