Could be, but I think it's partially both. In all faiths, some people are far more programmed to their dogma than others are.
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Could be, but I think it's partially both. In all faiths, some people are far more programmed to their dogma than others are.
It certainly would backfire in seeking converts.
In the same vein, I certainly don't represent Hinduism, just one tiny part of it, and in truth only my own interpretation. Tougher for Hindus since we are so vast. For Bahai it's one teacher, one mind to interpret, but in Hinduism its like 1000 + teachers.
We do have to be careful how we present ourselves, as the Baha'i faith is not well known and so it would be easy to say something that is our own understanding, but isn't really supported by our writings. It is a problem for all faiths but because the Baha'i Faith is relatively new its easy to get totally the wrong impression.
Over the years I've heard people with the craziest ideas about the Baha'is based on something that had been taken wrong years beforehand.
That being said, I think Baha'is on the whole are positive people and do try and engage constructively with others.
I suspect the more important issue is how we go about resolving misunderstandings and differences of opinions. For the most part because its interfaith its seems really important to acknowledge and accept very different ideas from our own without trying to change the other person to our way of thinking.
I'm really not expecting anyone to become a Baha'i as a result of these discussions. However we could really turn people off by misrepresenting ourselves or providing too much unwanted information.
I certainly am coming to appreciate the diversity of thought amongst Hindus.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Ooh gosh!
Ive always been relunctant to even call myself pagan just by coming on to this site alone. But if someone asked "what do pagans believe" Id probably laugh. Not out loud. We believe a whole bunch of, um, stuff, that even Pagans on RF dont want to talk about their pagan beliefs outside of academics and little p and big P.
A lot of genelizations going on.
Since Bahai can be more than one religion, its hard to know what Bahai believe without the mixture of other faiths. Id like to see you talk with a bahai hindu. That would be an interesting conversation.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I dont see this much in the bigger faiths, but I notice new ones like Bahai, UU, and SGI probably among others have more or a political and organizational stance on spirituality. All three seem to put doctrine/dogma aside. All three promote diversity.
To tell you honestly, if bahaullahs teachings are humanity teachings, why is it a religion? I know god is in it but what makes it a religion if you dont see the dogma/doctrines/culture that we see you have but bahais of many faiths may not see themselves?
I could never have such a conversation, because they just couldn't exist, in my opinion. So it would be like talking to nobody.
I have never seen how diluting traditions is helpful. Encouraging tradition is more helpful in the long run, because it keeps those traditions alive. A parallel might be letting species go extinct. I think its a shame.
Bahá'í Cycle doesn't mean Bahá'í Faith. The Baha'i Faith is to last about 1,000 years. During the next 500,000 year cycle there will be many Manifestations appear.
A new cycle begins when an enormous unparalleled change happens in the world such as the nuclear or modern age. Up until this age scientific progress was limited then it just rocketed up indicating a new cycle in human history had begun.
There is no empire. It is just the name we call the cycle because it was inaugurated by Baha'u'llah.
Before Him from Adam till Muhammad was the Adamic Cycle which was the cycle of prophecy where each religion prophesied a great change to come such as the Last Day or Day of God.
Muhammad was the last Prophet to prophesy the Last Days or end of the age.
Now we live in the age of fulfilment when the prophecies are gradually all being fulfilled culminating in a World Civilisation and the Great Peace spoken of by the Books of old.
There is more information here. It has nothing to do with an empire just as the Adamic Cycle.
Ages and Cycles
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Call it what you will, lover. Your beliefs, your cycle. And your vision that equates to an empire.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Here's part of what I was looking for:
ADAMIC CYCLE, CYCLE OF PROPHECY - lasted approximately 6,000 year 1. Adam 1. Indian religious figures
2. Noah - Krishna
3. Abraham
4. Moses 2. Zoroaster
5. Jesus 3. Buddha
6. Muhammad
+ Other unknown or unspecified prophets
I was also looking for dates. When do the Baha'is believe these manifestations came? This makes it look like Noah an Abraham are considered manifestation and they overlap other manifestations? To call it the "Adamic" cycle already makes it problematic with other religions outside of the Abrahamic religions.
Another problem is it implies that Adam, Noah and Abraham were real, historical people. If so, then did God create Adam 6000 or so years ago? I don't think you believe that. So then is he only "symbolic" and a mythic character? And the same with Noah, was there really a world-wide flood 4000 or so years ago? I doubt if you believe that either. So is he only a "legend"? Did God order a mass extinction of all human and animal life expect those on the Ark?
Another problem is that four of these people mentioned are all from Judaism. So Judaism, all by itself, had four manifestations? I know in previous posts the Bahai's here have not included Adam, Noah and Abraham as manifestations. So what is the official Baha'i belief? Are they or aren't they manifestations?
Because the people listed do overlap, then what? No 1000 years between manifestations? But rather, different areas had their own manifestations that taught them the truth for the day, while another manifestation taught another people a different truth at about the same time?
Oh, I just noticed, if Noah was real, and God really drowned all the people except Noah and his family, then what happened to the followers of Krishna? Oh my God, Krishna again, he wasn't the founder of Hinduism. So Hinduism was already going and had their own cycles going. So, since they didn't drown, then the story of Noah isn't accurate? So how do you explain the "history" described in the Bible versus the history laid out in the writings of Hinduism?
I don't understand how you equate our Faith which will last about 1,000 years to an empire.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I don't know if you're old enough to go back to the late '60's and early '70's, but that's when this happened. Deeply spiritual people finding truth in Eastern religions, some finding "Jesus" some going back to nature, some tried the Baha'i Faith. She needed and expected a more mystical experience. She was the type of person, a free spirit, that would dance and sing, go skinny dipping in the ocean... not the proper behavior of a Baha'i.
Whether they were right or wrong, you can tell me, but they expected a more conservative behavior. The Baha'is seemed to want to present themselves as being well educated and knowledgeable also. They had to be to read Shoghi Effendi's writings. She was the ninth adult in the community, so they needed her to form their first Spiritual Assembly. I went to the picnic she helped plan. It was great. Later some of us went skinny dipping in the ocean... she was the only Baha'i that went.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Hmmm? Okay then... How specifically did each manifestation build on the previous one? If the official Baha'i belief includes Adam, Noah and Abraham then include them too. So which ever goes first, state what they taught, then go to the next and show how they built on the teachings of the previous one.
Thanks for these questions. I'm learning a lot from you.
“The Ark and the Flood we believe are symbolical.”
(Shoghi Effendi)
We don't know all the dates. All we know is that there were always Manifestations. In progressive Revelation charts estimates are given which most historians accept in general but the further we go back th less we can verify.
There were many Manifestations before Moses. Also we don't know the time between them. Baha'u'llah says 'about once in a thousand years' but some Revelations appeared at shorter intervals.
This may or may not help. But gives an idea of the scope of history.
“And now regarding thy question, “How is it that no records are to be found concerning the Prophets that have preceded Adam, the Father of Mankind, or of the kings that lived in the days of those Prophets?” Know thou that the absence of any reference to them is no proof that they did not actually exist. That no records concerning them are now available, should be attributed to their extreme remoteness, as well as to the vast changes which the earth hath undergone since their time.
Moreover such forms and modes of writing as are now current amongst men were unknown to the generations that were before Adam. There was even a time when men were wholly ignorant of the art of writing, and had adopted a system entirely different from the one which they now use. For a proper exposition of this an elaborate explanation would be required.”
Baha'u'llah
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
1. I know you believe divinely revealed religions comes from the same root.
My posts are asking you.
Do you understand that a Hindu (with whom Krishna comes from, Hinduism) roots is not the same at all with any other revealed religion?
Do you understand that the traditions, culture, and language of christ (another revealed person) in his time does not speak of the same root and not of the same root as a Hindu, Buddhist, or god, person, or prophet outside of scripture?
Do you understand that these revealed religious are telling you their religions are not the same at the core?
Do you understand that the traditions, culture, and language of christ (another revealed person) in his time does not speak of the same root and not of the same root as a Hindu, Buddhist, or god, person, or prophet outside of scripture?
Do you understand that these revealed religious are telling you their religions are not the same at the core?
They are surface level. Of course, people want peace, love, and all of that but don't you understand
That if you are putting off the doctrine/dogma of these revealed religions, you are not respecting these religions because their TLC IS their spirituality.
This is your belief but do you understand that if you want to make one-truth of humanity, it must include more than five or six religions?
Yes, I know this. My posts are asking you specific questions of if you are learning and understanding what both @Vinayaka and I are saying not that you should change your beliefs.
Are you taking interest to understand who Krishna, Christ, Muhammad, Zoarastar, and The Buddha actually are and how they see your religion, how their views of their own religion in their sacred text and their followers contradict with what you are telling them about them?
Not just from their text but from their followers who identify as soley of their religions as well?
Do you understand that if you are asking for unity among people of various faiths you have to accept there is no Promise one and there is no yet?
That's like my saying, I believe that Bahaullah, Krishna, and Yamaya came at different type periods and they said you, as a Bahai, have yet to believe the words of these different prophets have to say via the words of Muhammad?
Can you see anything conflicting about this idea or concept that I just said?
That's like my saying, I believe that Bahaullah, Krishna, and Yamaya came at different type periods and they said you, as a Bahai, have yet to believe the words of these different prophets have to say via the words of Muhammad?
Can you see anything conflicting about this idea or concept that I just said?
This is exactly why world peace cannot happen. Bahaullah, The Church, and Muslims to name a few do not respect the traditions of other people. This is what builds wars and such.
This is actually pretty ironic statement, to say the least.
Again, you are not discussing and have interest to learn about why traditions are important to the revealed religions you are changing just by this post alone.
Do you understand their point of view?
Who gave him the right to do this if you are seeking unity among other faiths?
The issue is:
Your belief says peace among diversity
but you can't have that at all with anything you just wrote in this post.
It's black and white.
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Esoqq
Member
Thank you for your warm welcome. My experience and research has given me an answer to your question.
I find the best description of the soul is "that which is aware of being aware." It exists in another reality. It uses the mind to interact with this reality. The mind is not the brain but rather a link between the spirit and the brain which is basically a glorified switchboard. The human ego and personality are products of the mind as is the concept of Heaven and Hell. These are products of the subjects life experiences, especially their childhood. I believe our purpose for being here is educational, to gain life experiences and then to understand the mechanics behind them.