How can someone be a male and be a feminist at the same time?

[Debater Slayer]

Do you understand the difference between being horny and raping and raping due to being horny ?

I honestly still don't see how merely being "horny" would cause someone to commit actual, serious violence against another person. It just seems like a non sequitur to me.

(And I should know, because I'd be doomed if that were the case. )

 

[Alceste]

I honestly still don't see how merely being "horny" would cause someone to commit actual, serious violence against another person. It just seems like a non sequitur to me.

(And I should know, because I'd be doomed if that were the case. )

Damn, I'd be raping people all over the place myself if being horny was the cause of rape. I'm freaking horny all the time. I'm horny right now, cuz the sun finally came out and it feels like spring.

What I don't have are violent inclinations of any kind toward anyone, or the desire to dominate and control others to affirm my sense of self-worth. And guess what? I'm not raping somebody. I wonder if there might be some kind of connection...

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Damn, I'd be raping people all over the place myself if being horny was the cause of rape. I'm freaking horny all the time. I'm horny right now, cuz the sun finally came out and it feels like spring.

What I don't have are violent inclinations of any kind toward anyone, or the desire to dominate and control others to affirm my sense of self-worth. And guess what? I'm not raping somebody. I wonder if there might be some kind of connection...

Wait, wut? You're horny right now? :hearts:

Oh snap, that just made me super-horny! I need to lock myself in a room so I don't go rape somebody! I can't control myself!!! Gggguuurrrrhhhhhh!!!!!

 

[Debater Slayer]

Damn, I'd be raping people all over the place myself if being horny was the cause of rape. I'm freaking horny all the time. I'm horny right now, cuz the sun finally came out and it feels like spring.

What I don't have are violent inclinations of any kind toward anyone, or the desire to dominate and control others to affirm my sense of self-worth. And guess what? I'm not raping somebody. I wonder if there might be some kind of connection...

I don't know, but you just mentioned being horny. I need to go protect myself now and quit this thread as soon as possible. :run:

 

[Alceste]

Wait, wut? You're horny right now? :hearts:

Oh snap, that just made me super-horny! I need to lock myself in a room so I don't go rape somebody! I can't control myself!!! Gggguuurrrrhhhhhh!!!!!

I don't know, but you just mentioned being horny. I need to go protect myself now and quit this thread as soon as possible. :run:

Damn, now the fact that me being horny made you both horny is making me even hornier!

What do you say, should we all go spend a bit of quality time with a bottle of lubricant and the erotic material of our choice, or should we each run out and rape somebody?

 

[outis]

What I don't have are violent inclinations of any kind toward anyone, or the desire to dominate and control others to affirm my sense of self-worth. And guess what? I'm not raping somebody. I wonder if there might be some kind of connection...

Well, I do have violent inclinations, the desire to dominate and control others and I've got no sense of self-worth. I'm not raping anybody either. Weird.
Maybe that's because I don't call myself a feminist.

Nah, forget the topic.
Do explain why the Sunni guy doesn't want to call me "dear". I feel so unloved and neglected!

 

[Alceste]

Well, I do have violent inclinations, the desire to dominate and control others and I've got no sense of self-worth. I'm not raping anybody either. Weird.
Maybe that's because I don't call myself a feminist.

Nah, forget the topic.
Do explain why the Sunni guy doesn't want to call me "dear". I feel so unloved and neglected!

Maybe try updating your gender to female.

 

[Aquitaine]

Walk into the last page of a Feminist thread, expecting it to be boring,
Read all the Wimmens gettin' horny about other Wimmens being horny.....

GREAT SUCCESS!



Moderator cut: image removed

 

[Alceste]

How Not to Win Friends and Influence People: An Essay by sunni56

Let me spell it out for you like I would a 5 year old child....

Either you have great difficulty understanding simple concepts or you are unwilling to understand. I hope it's the former.

Not difficult to understand. The sooner you understand, the better. Perhaps I need to repeat it ad nauseum?

only a stupid woman wouldn't take precautions

Like I said, only a stupid woman wouldn't take precautions

Again, not difficult to comprehend.

Again, this isn't difficult to understand.

... something which seems to evade you.

I can do it too dear.

Not what I said dear.

Do you understand?

Women who do not take precautions ... are stupid. Whether you understand that or not is irrelevant, because that's a fact.

3. ... dear.

6.... dear

1. Yes, women are stupid for not taking precautions.

6. Stop misrepresenting my arguments, it's just childish.

Do explain why the Sunni guy doesn't want to call me "dear". I feel so unloved and neglected!

I take back the thoughtless comment that changing your gender to female might get you called "dear". I went back and skimmed through, and it seems he's called everybody "dear" but you. Even DS and Kerr, who are ostensibly proud owners of male genitalia.

I would be feeling left out too if I were in your shoes, my petal.

 

[outis]

Even DS and Kerr, who are ostensibly proud owners of male genitalia.

Maybe the idea is that you can't be male if you're making feminist-sounding noises.
Have the "males are so oppressed" guys been called "dear"? I don't know but I think I'll jump to conclusions right away!

 

[sunni56]

All your posts of this nature are extremely ironic, as you've presented no evidence at all supporting your own position (that men rape only because they are horny and can't control themselves). Why should our burden of proof be higher than yours? Yours is the outlying opinion. Ours (that rape is about violence, not being horny) is the consensus opinion. You need to work harder.

I'm sorry to hold up this post of yours as an example of how NOT to debate but I feel that lessons can be learnt by many members of the forum who are making the same mistake.

As everyone can see, Alceste here has firstly claimed that I haven't provided evidence for my claim. But what is my claim? My claim is that I don't know whether or not men have raped as a direct result of their horniness. As such, there is no evidence to present. This is a classic example of misrepresenting an opponent's argument.

Secondly, Alceste here has claimed that since my "opinion" is the "outlying opinion", I therefore "need to work harder". This is a classic example of the logical fallacy argumentum ad pupulum. Moreover, Alceste used a case of misrepresentation of an opponent's argument when they repeated the claim that "rape is about violence, not being horny", thus implying that I made the case that rape is about horniness, an allegation which is false.

 

[outis]

My claim is that I don't know whether or not men have raped as a direct result of their horniness. As such, there is no evidence to present.

My claim is that I don't know whether the Nazis have attempted to exterminate European Jews. As such, there is no evidence to present: I'm obviously a politically-motivated denialist.

 

[sunni56]

1) Again: They shouldn't have to make individual attempts to avoid getting raped; there should be comprehensive policies to deal with that instead. It may be preferable for a woman living in South Africa in the current circumstances to learn how to defend herself, but the circumstances that make such preferable are the root of the problem that should be addressed.

2) I didn't say that they shouldn't defend themselves at all. If you read my previous posts as well as the first part of this post, you'll see that what I disagree with is the notion that women must learn to defend themselves because it's expected that men won't be able to control themselves and commit rape as a result.

3) You still haven't answered my question: With the number of healthy males who experience strong sexual desires, why is it that only a small subset of men commit rape? Could it be that sexual desire per se isn't really the reason and there are more issues than men just being "too horny"?

What's happening here is you're dancing. You're unwilling to deal with the facts, so you dance away from it. 40% of women in South Africa are expected to be raped in their lifetime, and you are unwilling to agree that women in that part of the world should take precautions. That's either sheer arrogance, or sheer stupidity.

And I'm still waiting for evidence which you seem unable to provide. Namely, that all male rapists globally have reasons other than their horniness for what they have done.

 

[sunni56]

My claim is that I don't know whether the Nazis have attempted to exterminate European Jews. As such, there is no evidence to present: I'm obviously a politically-motivated denialist.

Don't you think...that... is probably the reason why I asked for evidence....?

 

[Alceste]

I'm sorry to hold up this post of yours as an example of how NOT to debate but I feel that lessons can be learnt by many members of the forum who are making the same mistake.

As everyone can see, Alceste here has firstly claimed that I haven't provided evidence for my claim. But what is my claim? My claim is that I don't know whether or not men have raped as a direct result of their horniness. As such, there is no evidence to present. This is a classic example of misrepresenting an opponent's argument.

Secondly, Alceste here has claimed that since my "opinion" is the "outlying opinion", I therefore "need to work harder". This is a classic example of the logical fallacy argumentum ad pupulum. Moreover, Alceste used a case of misrepresentation of an opponent's argument when they repeated the claim that "rape is about violence, not being horny", thus implying that I made the case that rape is about horniness, an allegation which is false.

Your claim is that only "stupid" women in South Africa don't take unspecified "precautions" against potential rapists (recalling that this side conversation began with my own reference to a burqa - walking around in a shapeless sack - being promoted as defense against rape.)

You mentioned 40% of SA women will be raped at some point in their lifetimes. Are 40% of women in SA "stupid", in your opinion, because they failed to take adequate precautions? Would they have been "protected" if they wore burqas? Why would what a woman is wearing dissuade a rapist, virtually all of whom are motivated by violence and a need to dominate others, rather than strong sexual desire?

What, if anything, should South African MEN do to reduce the prevalence of rape, in your opinion? Mystic asked you a couple times and you just ignored the question, repeatedly insisting that women who don't take "precautions" are "stupid".

It doesn't matter how smart you are when an anger-motivated rapist attacks you, as certain very smart women in this very thread well know.

 

[Aquitaine]

40% of women in South Africa are expected to be raped in their lifetime, and you are unwilling to agree that women in that part of the world should take precautions.

40% of women in South Africa are expected to be raped in their lifetime, and you are unwilling to agree that men in that part of the world should take precautions. (?)

 

[Alceste]

What's happening here is you're dancing. You're unwilling to deal with the facts, so you dance away from it. 40% of women in South Africa are expected to be raped in their lifetime, and you are unwilling to agree that women in that part of the world should take precautions. That's either sheer arrogance, or sheer stupidity.

And I'm still waiting for evidence which you seem unable to provide. Namely, that all male rapists globally have reasons other than their horniness for what they have done.

Here, while we're on the topic of how NOT to debate, let's see if you can find the post where ANYBODY argued that women in areas of endemic violence should not take "precautions" of some kind to protect themselves?

When you're finished with that, please refer back to the numerous links that have already been provided to you that support the assertion that sexual violence between adults stems from violent urges rather than sexual urges.

Try reading them this time.

 

[sunni56]

Your claim is that only "stupid" women in South Africa don't take unspecified "precautions" against potential rapists (recalling that this side conversation began with my own reference to a burqa - walking around in a shapeless sack - being promoted as defense against rape.)

You mentioned 40% of SA women will be raped at some point in their lifetimes. Are 40% of women in SA "stupid", in your opinion, because they failed to take adequate precautions? Would they have been "protected" if they wore burqas? Why would what a woman is wearing dissuade a rapist, virtually all of whom are motivated by violence and a need to dominate others, rather than strong sexual desire?

What, if anything, should South African MEN do to reduce the prevalence of rape, in your opinion? Mystic asked you a couple times and you just ignored the question, repeatedly insisting that women who don't take "precautions" are "stupid".

It doesn't matter how smart you are when an anger-motivated rapist attacks you, as certain very smart women in this very thread well know.

So basically you're asking entirely new questions and taking the debate into a different direction. I'll take that as a resounding defeat for you and I will not be responding to any new questions (or should I say I'm not your slave/won't be dancing to your tune). You're basically a user on the internet I don't know at all, and who clearly can't debate very well. You're certainly not entitled to any of my time or responses.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What's happening here is you're dancing. You're unwilling to deal with the facts, so you dance away from it. 40% of women in South Africa are expected to be raped in their lifetime, and you are unwilling to agree that women in that part of the world should take precautions.

And I'm still waiting for evidence which you seem unable to provide. Namely, that all male rapists globally have reasons other than their horniness for what they have done.

You are still misrepresenting my argument as disagreeing that women should take precautions altogether rather than just disagreeing that they should have to in normal circumstances, i.e., circumstances where rape isn't so common an occurrence as to be feared by women going about their everyday lives.

As for the evidence you're asking for, links to studies showing that sexual desire is far from being the primary motivator for rape have been posted in this thread, but you have yet to address or comment on any of them. You're just repeatedly asking for evidence that has already been provided.

 

[outis]

walking around in a shapeless sack - being promoted as defense against rape

The notion that one's attacker is likely to be a stranger is kind of disturbing to begin with. Outside of warzones, I mean.

But for balance, let's talk about the kind of situation in which horniness is likely to play an important part in motivating the assault: imagine you're a religious man who loathes masturbation and fornication. Your wife isn't willing. Raping her would be socially accepted.