How can someone be a male and be a feminist at the same time?

[MysticSang'ha]

hahahahaha let me just enjoy your attempt at proving that I "moved the goalposts" so to speak. Quickly changing the subject are we? I don't blame you. That was a pathetic attempt.

My opinion from the outset was that I have no idea whether or not any rape is sexually motivated. Lol at your attempt at misrepresenting my argument once more. What an absolute consistent failure.

While you're claiming your victory, keep in mind you entered the thread and made outrageous claims that men who rape can't control themselves and their sexual urges.

Then, you claimed don't have any idea if any rape is sexually motivated.

Rape has repeatedly been shown in criminological and sociological studies that it's an act of violence and power, and not at all motivated by sex.

You maintain that there might be a possibility that rape is sexually motivated and require evidence to show that the sexual motivation doesn't exist. At least one. Or ANY.

We've provided links in this thread to you showing you that many studies have been done on the crime of rape in various situations and in various groups of people. It's a violent crime, not where men can't control themselves.

Then you insist we focus on women protecting themselves from rape in South Africa. You apparently brought up Europe, false rape accusations, calling the entire group of debaters lazy, resisting any request to provide any evidence to any claim you made (like any rape is the result of not being able to control sexual urges), and consistently being hostile, rude, and condescending in your posts.

Your posts have been all over the map. Get a grip, and let's debate according to the OP.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Yeah, okay, so …

Why would a feminist movement tell men to stay away?

I’m not saying feminist would want to push away male supporters of the feminist cause. I don’t view it as a one side issue.

I do view it as having more to do with issues or problems that involve women more than it does men. The whole reason and point of feminism is about equal rights for women that involve women. The reason why women didn’t have equal rights is because they never had the opportunity or didn’t take the time to speak out and stand up. Early movements were collectively women. It’s not like a group of men, one day decided to let women vote and be given more freedom, responsibilities and privileges.

Is there any point in time where women have had as much freedom as they do today in history past?

I rarely hear anything about historical women figures. Although I do know about some. I don't think women have had it as bad as feminism makes it out to be sometimes. I mean there have been Queens, Princesses, Goddesses, Female Pharaohs, etc.

 

[outis]

I’m not saying feminist would want to push away male supporters of the feminist cause.

Some do, sometimes and for some purposes.
Just not the English major type of feminist apparently.

I mean there have been Queens, Princesses, Goddesses, Female Pharaohs, etc.

Not again!

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Some do, sometimes and for some purposes.
Just not the English major type of feminist apparently.


Not again!

lol not again?!@ Did someone already mention this? Or did i miss something.

 

[Alceste]

Yeah, okay, so …

I’m not saying feminist would want to push away male supporters of the feminist cause. I don’t view it as a one side issue.

I do view it as having more to do with issues or problems that involve women more than it does men. The whole reason and point of feminism is about equal rights for women that involve women. The reason why women didn’t have equal rights is because they never had the opportunity or didn’t take the time to speak out and stand up. Early movements were collectively women. It’s not like a group of men, one day decided to let women vote and be given more freedom, responsibilities and privileges.

Is there any point in time where women have had as much freedom as they do today in history past?

I rarely hear anything about historical women figures. Although I do know about some. I don't think women have had it as bad as feminism makes it out to be sometimes. I mean there have been Queens, Princesses, Goddesses, Female Pharaohs, etc.

Yeah, there have been free Africans too, so I suppose slavery wasn't so bad.

FYI, it was indeed a group of men who decided women should be allowed to vote, in every country where women are allowed to vote. It was also a group of white people who decided black people should not be bought and sold as property. If you mull it over, even just a little bit, this will be obvious to you and I won't have to explain.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yeah, okay, so …

I’m not saying feminist would want to push away male supporters of the feminist cause. I don’t view it as a one side issue.

I do view it as having more to do with issues or problems that involve women more than it does men. The whole reason and point of feminism is about equal rights for women that involve women. The reason why women didn’t have equal rights is because they never had the opportunity or didn’t take the time to speak out and stand up. Early movements were collectively women. It’s not like a group of men, one day decided to let women vote and be given more freedom, responsibilities and privileges.

Obviously. It was a long and winding road across cultures that birthed the suffragists. And it remains a meandering road across cultures where a myriad of other socio-political issues were opened up as a result of the right to vote and own property.

Empowerment is never granted, IMO. It is claimed.

Is there any point in time where women have had as much freedom as they do today in history past?

Which culture are we referring to with this question? Afghani women? Norwegian women? American women?

I rarely hear anything about historical women figures. Although I do know about some. I don't think women have had it as bad as feminism makes it out to be sometimes. I mean there have been Queens, Princesses, Goddesses, Female Pharaohs, etc.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Is not knowing about many women in history relevent to thinking that feminists are conflating issues of inequality?

 

[Willamena]

Again, you are denying that any male rapist in the world has their sexual desire as their motivating factor for rape. You can't hide from that big claim, no link that has been presented to me is evidence or proof of that claim. Now, I ask again and again, where is the evidence for that claim?

You are the one making the claim that it is.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Yeah, there have been free Africans too, so I suppose slavery wasn't so bad.

FYI, it was indeed a group of men who decided women should be allowed to vote, in every country where women are allowed to vote. If you mull it over, even just a little bit, this will be obvious to you and I won't have to explain.

I guess if you think the only reason women have the rights they do today is because of men. I just don't view or see it that way.

 

[outis]

lol not again?!@ Did someone already mention this? Or did i miss something.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/145222-patriarchy.html

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Obviously. It was a long and winding road across cultures that birthed the suffragists. And it remains a meandering road across cultures where a myriad of other socio-political issues were opened up as a result of the right to vote and own property.

Empowerment is never granted, IMO. It is claimed.

I agree.

Which culture are we referring to with this question? Afghani women? Norwegian women? American women?

Any one really. It doesn't matter really. I'm just asking if you know of any.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Is not knowing about many women in history relevent to thinking that feminists are conflating issues of inequality?

No, its just that women rarely get mentioned in historical texts it seems.

 

[Alceste]

I guess if you think the only reason women have the rights they do today is because of men. I just don't view or see it that way.

I guess I do have to explain. Prohibiting women from voting and allowing the purchase of human beings were laws. Those laws were made by white men. All lawmakers at the time were white men. They had to be persuaded to change those laws. Some of those who endeavored to do the persuading were also white men of superior conscience.

They could simply have killed or imprisoned agitators, since they had the power to do so, but they chose to become wiser and more inclusive and compassionate instead.

I'm not belittling the contribution of activists, who always have to do the bulk of the persuading. I'm celebrating the contribution of men in power who acted with wisdom and compassion.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I guess if you think the only reason women have the rights they do today is because of men. I just don't view or see it that way.

Men have been an active part and supporter of women's rights, and it's because of their support that gender equality is being seen more and more throughout various levels of the public and private sectors.

Women have not been doing all this on our own. Feminists present issues and statistics regarding gender inequality that is considered unethical, arbitrary, or archaic to those who hold decision-making positions. And any of these people can be any gender nowadays, btw.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

hmmmm.... alrighty

I guess that is all i wanted to know. Thanks for your replies ladies.

 

[Aquitaine]

hmmmm.... alrighty

I guess that is all i wanted to know. Thanks for your replies ladies.

My God, could this thread finally have been resolved.........???

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My God, could this thread finally have been resolved.........???

LOL could be. It didn't take 70 pages to do it either, which is pretty remarkable. :yes:

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Sorry, but I like and listen to Cyndi Lauper with other females and males.

[youtube]zmBGbIivCoo[/youtube]

She isn't my role model but she ranks very highly among women I like.

 

[Alceste]

Sorry, but I like and listen to Cyndi Lauper with other females and males.

[youtube]zmBGbIivCoo[/youtube]

She isn't my role model but she ranks very highly among women I like.

I'm sorry too.

 

[sunni56]

This has already been answered, and I really don't see the need to reiterate what you've already been told many times so far.

I also wonder what difference it'd make to you whether or not there exists "at least 1 man who raped due to them being horny," since what's been posted so far clearly shows that other factors are far more commonly the motivation for rape than "being horny" is.

There is:
Which part exactly do you find unclear in the bolded text?

Once again, where is the evidence that there doesn't exist at least 1 male rapist who isn't motivated by their horniness? Still waiting for evidence, nice try at ducking the question.

My opinion was clear from the outset; that I don't know the whether or not any particular male rapist in the world was motivated by their desire from to fulfill their sexual needs. You claim to know, hence you need to provide evidence for the massive claim you made.

You haven't answered a simple yes/no question. You are unable for a reason I can only speculate about. Let's try again; the proposition is "considering the rate of violent crime against women in South Africa, women in South Africa should take precautions". Agree or disagree? I'm pretty sure an 8 yearld could answer this question...

 

[sunni56]

While you're claiming your victory, keep in mind you entered the thread and made outrageous claims that men who rape can't control themselves and their sexual urges.

Then, you claimed don't have any idea if any rape is sexually motivated.

Rape has repeatedly been shown in criminological and sociological studies that it's an act of violence and power, and not at all motivated by sex.

You maintain that there might be a possibility that rape is sexually motivated and require evidence to show that the sexual motivation doesn't exist. At least one. Or ANY.

Then you insist we focus on women protecting themselves from rape in South Africa.

False statement after false statement

1. My opinion was clear from the outset; I don't know whether or not any male rapist worldwide was motivated by their desire for sexual satisfaction.

2. You still have failed to successfully provide evidence for an assertion which you support; namely that there doesn't exist a single male rapist who is motivated by their need for sexual fulfilment.

3. I never said anything about "focusing" on women taling precautions. You're making that up What I DID say however, is that due to the high rate of violence against women in that part of the world, they should take precautions. I think you're racist and misogynistic for opposing the need for South African women to protect themselves when they are being targeted.

 

[sunni56]

You are the one making the claim that it is.

Nope.