How can someone be a male and be a feminist at the same time?

[Alceste]

I plead the 5th!

I’m not guilty for encouraging respectful debates.

You spelled "of" wrong.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Let's look at these "quotes:"


“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

First of all, if you look up this quote or try to find out where it's from, all you get is page after page of anti-feminist sites making reference to this passage, but not referencing which writing this is included. That being said, I can't find it. How do I actually even know she said it, let alone figure out the context?

That being said, since it's Dworkin, if this is a true quote, she was most like talking about pornography in that sense that women are portrayed this. The "I want to see..." is a proactive statement meant to show how this type of imagery is used against women not men. That would be first my assumption. But since I can't even find out which writing this quote is even from, I can't even examine it.

I can tell you about this quote. Yes many anti feminists and even feminists have used this quote to prove that Dworkin was an advocate for violence against all men. They usually don't know where she said this and the context or what she was actually talking about.
The quote is from her novel 'Mercy' first published in Britain in 1990 by Martin Secker and Warburg Limited. The edition I will be quoting from was published in 1992 by Arrow Books. ISBN 0 09 996150 4.

The novel is about sexual violence.

The quote is from page 327 chapter 11, "April 30, 1974 (age 27)"

The page is about women killing or fighting back their rapist/attacker.
"I've always wanted to see a man beaten to ****** bloody pulp with a high-heeled shoe stuffed up his mouth, sort of the pig with the apple; it would be good to put him on a serving plate but you'd need good silver. You're the piece of a**; he's invulnerable, of course; it's his right, to come after you; so if he follows you and you have the urge to smash him to death he's asked for it, hasn't he? I mean, he actually did ask for it."

If anyone is interested in Andrea discussing the book you can listen to an interview here:
http://archive.org/details/pra-AZ1413

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Is it a real world problem when feminism doesn’t involve women, equal rights and the right to protest or speak out against oppression?

If feminism is a movement, then women don't need a man (or men) to hold their hand during protests. They are more than capable of protesting on their own accord.

Why would a feminist movement involve men?

Why would a feminist movement tell men to stay away?

 

[Mathematician]

No, somehow someone starting talking about misandry (or man-haters ... which is a stupid word) and the site it is about feminism does acknowledge that it exists with some people (women) who claim to be feminist.
I agree with the article and its just a pointless argument that takes away from the real issues which is why there is really nothing to talk about when it comes to the site.

How is misandry a dumb word if you can pull from numerous resources that label men as pigs and brutes - specifically feminist social media? A former member on this forum posted a picture on FB about 'rape culture.' Me being foolish enough to take an interest in the discussion, saw just that: comments about all of men being a ruinous scourge.

I'm not even referring to post-relationship feelings because those issues are separate.

 

[Sir Doom]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was several days ago before I even posted this thread as to how can a guy be a feminist.

"WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" Goes the joke plane!

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Why would a feminist movement tell men to stay away?

Exactly, the whole idea is that men are not born patriarchal and that they can and should share the principles of feminism.

 

[Willamena]

Because it has historical ties that involve women progressives for equal rights.

"All men were dumb, dumb, dumb heads".

I don't know how feminism applies to modern, everyday society and no one has taken the time to explain this to me.

How is "all men were dumb, dumb, dumb heads" equal rights? Is it because men called women that, and now they can do the same? If so, that's not equal rights, that's just childish.

Feminism is about individualism. It has to do with civil rights on one hand and respect on the other. Where women are systematically being treated differently than men to their disadvantage, that disparity should be minimized or levelled. Everyone should get the same respect as people.

 

[Willamena]

Is it a real world problem when feminism doesn’t involve women, equal rights and the right to protest or speak out against oppression?

If feminism is a movement, then women don't need a man (or men) to hold their hand during protests. They are more than capable of protesting on their own accord.

Why would a feminist movement involve men?

It should involve everyone, because ultimately it is everyone's problem when the idea of individualism itself is being disrespected. It threatens democracy, it threatens the image of the "modern man" that we've restructured so carefully for the 21st Century, and it threatens our way of life in the West, including Capitalism, and hence our vision for the future.

We have a lot riding on individualism.

 

[Alceste]

How is misandry a dumb word if you can pull from numerous resources that label men as pigs and brutes - specifically feminist social media? A former member on this forum posted a picture on FB about 'rape culture.' Me being foolish enough to take an interest in the discussion, saw just that: comments about all of men being a ruinous scourge.

I'm not even referring to post-relationship feelings because those issues are separate.

Has somebody in this thread pulled "from numerous resources - specifically feminist social media" examples of notable feminists labeling men as pigs and brutes? If so, I missed it. We've got a total of one legitimate, card-carrying lunatic who was never influential presented as evidence thus far, and a bunch of cherry picked quotes taken put of context, many of which are from fictional novels.

This site is social media - can you find me some of this ubiquitous man-hating by feminists here? How about Dust1n? Is he always banging on about how all men are pigs and brutes? Mystic? Me? Sunstone?

This site is positively rotten with die-hard feminists. Have you ever heard anyone here say all men are pigs and brutes, with the possible exception of Muslim men trying to justify why their uncontrollable sexual feelings require that women be stuck into a shapeless sack to protect themselves?

If it's as common as you claim, you should have no trouble finding at least one example on RF.

 

[sunni56]

with the possible exception of Muslim men trying to justify why their uncontrollable sexual feelings require that women be stuck into a shapeless sack to protect themselves?

Muslim women choose to wear shapeless sacks over their head, just like some women choose to wear revealing clothing and a lot of flesh (possibly to impress their boss at work). The reason why we Muslims believe that women should wear a headscarf is because God said so- it's nothing to do with sexual urges (even though men have much greater need for sexual intimacy than women on average, also rape is usually done upon women rather than men- that is, if rape upon men is recognised at all).

 

[Alceste]

Muslim women choose to wear shapeless sacks over their head, just like some women choose to wear revealing clothing and a lot of flesh (possibly to impress their boss at work). The reason why we Muslims believe that women should wear a headscarf is because God said so- it's nothing to do with sexual urges (even though men have much greater need for sexual intimacy than women on average, also rape is usually done upon women rather than men- that is, if rape upon men is recognised at all).

I have seen Muslim men (women too) arguing that men can't control their sexual urges, and that is why women need to adhere to strict dress codes. I'm not arguing that it's the majority view, just noting that I've seen it, and that is the only place on RF I've seen any suggestion that all men are pigs and brutes.

 

[sunni56]

I have seen Muslim men (women too) arguing that men can't control their sexual urges, and that is why women need to adhere to strict dress codes. I'm not arguing that it's the majority view, just noting that I've seen it, and that is the only place on RF I've seen any suggestion that all men are pigs and brutes.

Well that's a fact in some areas of the world. It doesn't matter how you spin it, in South Africa for example, rape is through the roof, it's out of control. So yes, a person could argue (successfully in the case of South Africa) that men simply can't control their sexual urges.

 

[Alceste]

Well that's a fact in some areas of the world. It doesn't matter how you spin it, in South Africa for example, rape is through the roof, it's out of control. So yes, a person could argue (successfully in the case of South Africa) that men simply can't control their sexual urges.

Doesn't follow. Men in south Africa perhaps don't control their sexual urges, but that doesn't mean they can't. Boys are not born violent. They learn it.

 

[sunni56]

Doesn't follow. Men in south Africa perhaps don't control their sexual urges, but that doesn't mean they can't. Boys are not born violent. They learn it.

Perhaps they don't control it, perhaps they can't (in the sense that they have great difficulty controlling it and so don't bother). Perhaps it's a compulsive disorder in some men, I don't know. But what I do know is that rape is out of control in some areas.

Moreover, boys are not born sexually violent because their reproductive organs and the need to fulfill their desires don't really develop until after puberty begins. Basic biology.

 

[Alceste]

Perhaps they don't control it, perhaps they can't (in the sense that they have great difficulty controlling it and so don't bother). Perhaps it's a compulsive disorder in some men, I don't know. But what I do know is that rape is out of control in some areas.

Moreover, boys are not born sexually violent because their reproductive organs and the need to fulfill their desires don't really develop until after puberty begins. Basic biology.

I don't mean sexually violent. I just mean violent. Rape is violence. It really doesn't have much to do with sexual desire as much as it is about wanting to hurt somebody and exert power over them. That is learned behavior. Boys are not born violent.

 

[sunni56]

I don't mean sexually violent. I just mean violent. Rape is violence. It really doesn't have much to do with sexual desire as much as it is about wanting to hurt somebody and exert power over them. That is learned behavior. Boys are not born violent.

Boys can't rape, they have no urge to rape because their bodies haven't developed to that extent. It's when their puberty hits when it matters, the sooner you understand this point the better.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well that's a fact in some areas of the world. It doesn't matter how you spin it, in South Africa for example, rape is through the roof, it's out of control. So yes, a person could argue (successfully in the case of South Africa) that men simply can't control their sexual urges.

Then there needs to be greater focus on educating the public on what informed consent means, rather than accepting that "men simply can't control their sexual urges."

Are you suggesting that we should accept that men simply can't control their sexual urges? I don't accept that, because it's a dig against men and seeing them as nothing more than violent beasts that we need to protect ourselves from.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Boys can't rape, they have no urge to rape because their bodies haven't developed to that extent. It's when their puberty hits when it matters, the sooner you understand this point the better.

I have three teenaged sons ranging in ages from 15-20 years old. I know what teenaged testosterone looks like.

 

[Willamena]

Boys can't rape, they have no urge to rape because their bodies haven't developed to that extent. It's when their puberty hits when it matters, the sooner you understand this point the better.

I disagree. It isn't even necessary to have a penis to commit rape.

 

[dust1n]

http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-boy-11-accused-of-raping-younger-sister/article/3764754

Oh...

"A mother and son were arrested Friday following reports that a 6-year-old girl had been raped, Oklahoma City police said.

Police went to the victim's home in the 4000 block of Rancho Drive about 4:20 p.m. Friday after a state Department of Human Services worker told them the girl had been sexually assaulted by her brother, 11, and her cousin."