How Can We Identify True Worship?

[kerndog]

Not surprising a watchtower member would be quoting G.K. Chesterton!

Chesterton was born in Campden Hill in Kensington, London, the son of Marie Louise, nee Grosjean, and Edward Chesterton.[9][10] He was baptized at the age of one month into the Church of England,[11] though his family themselves were irregularly practising Unitarians.[12] According to his autobiography, as a young man Chesterton became fascinated with the occult and, along with his brother Cecil, experimented with Ouija boards.[13]

Chesterton was educated at St Paul's School, then attended the Slade School of Art in order to become an illustrator. The Slade is a department of University College London, where Chesterton also took classes in literature, but did not complete a degree in either subject.

Family life
Chesterton married Frances Blogg in 1901; the marriage lasted the rest of his life. Chesterton credited Frances with leading him back to Anglicanism, though he later considered Anglicanism to be a "pale imitation". He entered full communion with the Catholic Church in 1922.[14]

In other words, YOU can not defend your position from the bible , AGAIN, we ALREADY know whats next, websites of , disfellowshiped ex J.Ws. who have got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and like you, become angry, and WANT THEIR WAY, instead of admitting their guilt !.....KNOCK YOURSELF OUT !

 

[savagewind]

In other words, YOU can not defend your position from the bible

Hahaha! So when JWs resort to minutiae is it ALSO because you "can not defend your position from the Bible"? It puts you and us in the same class, you should know. What is going to happen to us? That is what is going to happen to you because it is the law.

 

[savagewind]

A person can not do both; defend their faith from the Bible and defend their faith by The Holy Spirit. Yes, the Holy Spirit uses the Bible so we should too but who should USE The Holy Spirit? May I recommend against that?

This is what I see. Except for the lady, I am ignored by all of them. To do that to a person is the same as eliminating her. I haven't eliminated anyone yet.

As it is true that I have been eliminated it can also be true that if you could hear from the King he might ask you, "why did you cut off one of your members?"

And your answer will cause shame. "YOU told us to cut off what causes stumbling".

 

[djhwoodwerks]

In other words, YOU can not defend your position from the bible , AGAIN, we ALREADY know whats next, websites of , disfellowshiped ex J.Ws. who have got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and like you, become angry, and WANT THEIR WAY, instead of admitting their guilt !.....KNOCK YOURSELF OUT !

That's what you get from my post? All I can say is, "BLINDERS"!

2Ti 4:3-4 (ESVST) 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

What was believed and taught first? There is a hell (eternal punishment), there is a trinity, Jesus is God. The watchtower taught this is all wrong. Who wandered off from the truth?

 

[savagewind]

I assure anyone who is still listening that nobody will ever know if Jesus was God or not God. At the judgement, if it is even about speaking, nobody will be told he was right or wrong about it. To decide either way does NOTHING to change Jehovah and how the judgement will go. What deciding does do is it marks a person in relation to other people which I suppose is a bad thing and not a good thing.

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah's Witnesses say they have all the answers and that we must believe their answers for God's will be done, but they don't have all the answers.

 

[Katzpur]

Hahaha! So when JWs resort to minutiae is it ALSO because you "can not defend your position from the Bible"? It puts you and us in the same class, you should know. What is going to happen to us? That is what is going to happen to you because it is the law.

Hey, savagewind, could you tell me how long you were a Jehovah's Witness? Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you please describe a Jehovah's Witnesses worship service?

 

[anonymous9887]

First to answer the general question is how to identify true worship.
1. First it all depends on what writings or belief system is your final authority.
2. Then if you both use the same writings or belief system then you can actually have a discussion. Usually best to do it topically.
3. Gather all the scriptures or beliefs system ideas and see if, idols for example is approved by god according to what we have.
4. After you have gathered the scriptures, then you ask by the examples provided, for example if "jesus would wear a cross" but there is argument's for everything. The best thing is for you to decide which idea outweighs the other.

 

[anonymous9887]

First to answer the general question is how to identify true worship.
1. First it all depends on what writings or belief system is your final authority.
2. Then if you both use the same writings or belief system then you can actually have a discussion. Usually best to do it topically.
3. Gather all the scriptures or beliefs system ideas and see if, idols for example is approved by god according to what we have.
4. After you have gathered the scriptures, then you ask by the examples provided, for example if "jesus would wear a cross" but there is argument's for everything. The best thing is for you to decide which idea outweighs the other.

Then when you have formed an opinion based on a fair chance on a view, then you have identified true worship. If you are a bible believer you should pray first and foremost.

 

[savagewind]

Hey, savagewind, could you tell me how long you were a Jehovah's Witness? Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you please describe a Jehovah's Witnesses worship service?

Yes. I was one for almost twenty years. I had attended five different Kingdom Halls. They are all the same more or less. We always dress up. All the children attend each meeting with their parents. We met three times each week for five different meetings. I think most Kingdom Halls have 50-100+ attending.
Sunday started with a song and a prayer by an assigned baptized brother in good standing and then a brother whose assignment it was gave a Bible talk. Only brothers do that and only brothers pray in front of the group. There is no clapping for anyone coming on stage but there is clapping after they talk. After the talk there is another song but not another prayer. Then a brother whose job it is, introduces the Watchtower study. It is usually the same brother every week. There are printed questions and those are asked of the group. They are for repeating the main point of each paragraph. Whoever wants to answer will raise his or her hand. The answers are found in the paragraph and most of the time the answers are almost verbatim. Baptized brothers are assigned to carry the microphones around. After the Watchtower study there is another song and a closing prayer. I never once heard an original prayer in twenty years, as I recall.
One day a week, which day is different for each congregation, there is a Theocratic Ministry School and after that the Service meeting. The first is for learning how to speak about the Bible and the second one is for learning what to say.
Then there is the Bible study meeting. This one was held in different places with smaller groups. Reading for it was assigned beforehand and everyone, even the children, were expected to be prepared. Questions are arranged by the governing body and in 20 years I heard no discussion but what was assigned to discuss. The Bible reading was in order from Genesis to Revelation. I think it was finished in three years and then it started over again. We also dressed up for it even though it was usually held in someone's home.

I remember hearing several times that the meetings were so important to attend and especially the smaller meetings because it might prove to be a lifeline come Armageddon.

 

[Ingledsva]

When Jesus came to restore true worship among his people back in the first century, what did he find? He found a religious system so corrupted by man-made traditions that he could barely recognize it. But he was not sent to the ones responsible for the corruption, nor to the ones who willingly upheld it....he was sent only to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel". (Matt 10:24) How many people recognize the significance of that assignment? Jesus already knew that as a nation, Israel had failed monumentally in upholding the teachings of Moses. (Matt 23:37-39) Yet none of those teachings were "from" Moses....they were from God "through" the hand of Moses.
A "prophet greater than Moses" was to come. (Deut 18:15, 18, 19; Acts 3:19-23) This prophet proved to be Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus come to prop up that corrupt religious system? Or did he come to those who had given up on it and were like poor beggars hungering for spiritual nourishment and a kind word or deed?

In whose eyes were these ones "lost"? Certainly not God's. Who were the ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah?...The religious leaders and those who upheld corrupt Judaism?.....or the ones who had given up on it because of its blatant hypocrisy and false interpretation of scripture?

In this time of the end, again God is not seeking those who are happy with the present religious chaos and disunity that is Christendom (Judaism's modern day counterpart.) The "lost sheep" today see right through that hypocritical institution who claims to worship the true God, but who instead promote their own place in this world....priding themselves on their "friendship with the world". (James 4:4) Even promoting the wars of their nations, rejecting Jesus' counsel to 'love their enemies'.

"The good news of the kingdom" is being preached to all, (Matt 24:14) but only the "lost" who have already rejected false worship in their heart, will respond. They have not given up on God, only on the corruption that is presented as truth by the churches. This applies to people of all religions. God is at present making the way for all honest-hearted ones to come to him in faith and be accepted as his spiritual children. (2 Pet 3:9)

God sees to it that those who hunger for the truth and who are humble and obedient at heart will be given all the tools necessary to become a citizen of his Kingdom. Those who want to worship God "their" way will not be granted citizenship because they don't want to do things God's way. (2 Thess 2:9-12) They fail to see that disobedience is what undid humans in the first place. All God has ever asked of his children is that they obey him. It is all he asks now. (Rev 18:4, 5)

Those who wish to practice true worship will reject all that is false and become part of a global brotherhood who all accept the same teachings and can verify the validity of all of them from God's word.

The problem is that there is no proof that - "This prophet proved to be Jesus Christ."

He didn't fulfill the prophecies.

And Christianity is also corrupted by manmade traditions.

There is no trinity in the Bible, and Jesus never said he was part of any trinity.

The Bible doesn't say Jesus is God. Jesus never says he is God. Which makes sense, as he was a Jew and it would have been blasphemy.

And that last sentence. - Most religions think theirs is the true religion, - nothing makes yours more believable then theirs. It is just your belief.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

The ones who have international unity and peace (1 Cor 1:10)...the ones who obey Christ and refuse to spill human blood in war (Matt 5:44)....the ones who don't fuse pagan festivals and practices with what Christ taught (2 Cor 6:14-18)....the ones who worship the same God that Jesus did (Luke 4:8)....the ones who are "doing the will of the Father". (Matt 7:21-23) The ones preaching the "good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth. (Matt 24:14)

Does that describe your church?

Ummm!

I don't think any of the churches have international unity and peace.

Christianity has spilled a lot of blood.

Obviously pagan holidays and ideas have fused with Christian. In fact they also fused with the Hebrew religion.

Most of Christianity is worshiping a God that is different from the God that Jesus worshiped.

He worshiped ONE God. Most of Christianity worships a trinity God. Jesus the Jew, would have found this to be blasphemy.

*

 

[anonymous9887]

Ummm!

I don't think any of the churches have international unity and peace.

Christianity has spilled a lot of blood.

Obviously pagan holidays and ideas have fused with Christian. In fact they also fused with the Hebrew religion.

Most of Christianity is worshiping a God that is different from the God that Jesus worshiped.

He worshiped ONE God. Most of Christianity worships a trinity God. Jesus the Jew, would have found this to be blasphemy.

*

Actually you may want to take a look at Jehovah's witnesses then.

 

[Katzpur]

Yes. I was one for almost twenty years.

Wow. I didn't realize you'd been involved for that long. How did you come to decide to leave and what were the consequences of doing so (with respect to your personal relationships with family and friends)?

I had attended five different Kingdom Halls. They are all the same more or less. We always dress up. All the children attend each meeting with their parents. We met three times each week for five different meetings. I think most Kingdom Halls have 50-100+ attending.
Sunday started with a song and a prayer by an assigned baptized brother in good standing and then a brother whose assignment it was gave a Bible talk. Only brothers do that and only brothers pray in front of the group. There is no clapping for anyone coming on stage but there is clapping after they talk. After the talk there is another song but not another prayer. Then a brother whose job it is, introduces the Watchtower study. It is usually the same brother every week. There are printed questions and those are asked of the group. They are for repeating the main point of each paragraph. Whoever wants to answer will raise his or her hand. The answers are found in the paragraph and most of the time the answers are almost verbatim. Baptized brothers are assigned to carry the microphones around. After the Watchtower study there is another song and a closing prayer. I never once heard an original prayer in twenty years, as I recall.

So are they prayers memorized or what?

One day a week, which day is different for each congregation, there is a Theocratic Ministry School and after that the Service meeting. The first is for learning how to speak about the Bible and the second one is for learning what to say.
Then there is the Bible study meeting. This one was held in different places with smaller groups. Reading for it was assigned beforehand and everyone, even the children, were expected to be prepared. Questions are arranged by the governing body and in 20 years I heard no discussion but what was assigned to discuss. The Bible reading was in order from Genesis to Revelation. I think it was finished in three years and then it started over again. We also dressed up for it even though it was usually held in someone's home.

I remember hearing several times that the meetings were so important to attend and especially the smaller meetings because it might prove to be a lifeline come Armageddon.

Thanks. I was asking the same thing on another forum and got almost exactly the same answer, so that pretty much answers my question.

 

[savagewind]

Wow. I didn't realize you'd been involved for that long. How did you come to decide to leave and what were the consequences of doing so (with respect to your personal relationships with family and friends)?

I doubted their claim that only JW will be saved and their claim that God gave us the governing body to teach the world, but it was when I heard from an elder that we are not to doubt the gb that I left. I did not say good bye to anyone. I was in a new congregation and had made no friends. I was the only JW in both my extended family and my husband's extended family. My children were too smart for the JWs so they were not dedicated. I had made no very close friends so that was not much of a problem either. I am a homebody mostly. Can't you tell by my post count?

So are they prayers memorized or what?

I do not know but I would guess most of the time they are prepared. I never got the feeling I was in the presence of The Holy Spirit.

Thanks.

You're welcome

I was asking the same thing on another forum and got almost exactly the same answer, so that pretty much answers my question.

I do just one forum at a time. It is like a marriage. Isn't it?

 

[Ingledsva]

Actually you may want to take a look at Jehovah's witnesses then.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't have international unity and peace either.

You folks have had splinter groups break off.

You also have lawsuits for sex crimes just like the other churches, etc.

*

 

[anonymous9887]

The people we bring in are from the world, you can't blame a whole organization for an individual's actions. As for the splinter groups they are not associated with us what so ever, it's JW or nothing.

 

[Ingledsva]

The people we bring in are from the world, you can't blame a whole organization for an individual's actions. As for the splinter groups they are not associated with us what so ever, it's JW or nothing.

You implied that the JWs have international unity and peace, etc.

I was showing that this is not correct. Sex law suits, splinter groups, etc.

And that these splinter groups have nothing to do with the main JW Church, is YOUR opinion. They obviously thought the church had gone wrong, - away from the teachings, - and thus broke-off from it, - forming groups of their own.

All is not well on the JW Front, - Just as with the other churches.

*

 

[Katzpur]

I doubted their claim that only JW will be saved and their claim that God gave us the governing body to teach the world, but it was when I heard from an elder that we are not to doubt the gb that I left. I did not say good bye to anyone. I was in a new congregation and had made no friends. I was the only JW in both my extended family and my husband's extended family. My children were too smart for the JWs so they were not dedicated. I had made no very close friends so that was not much of a problem either. I am a homebody mostly. Can't you tell by my post count?

Yeah, I guess that's a pretty good indicator. I've got a lot more posts than you, but have been here more than twice as long.

You're welcomeI do just one forum at a time. It is like a marriage. Isn't it?

Well, I'm a Mormon, remember? Doesn't that give me the right to multiple marriages at once?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The people we bring in are from the world, you can't blame a whole organization for an individual's actions. As for the splinter groups they are not associated with us what so ever, it's JW or nothing.

This is the mentality of a JW? "It's JW or nothing"! Not, "it's Jehovah or nothing" or "it's Jesus or nothing", but, "it's JW or nothing".