How Can We Identify True Worship?

[Hockeycowboy]

Not surprising a watchtower member would be quoting G.K. Chesterton!

Chesterton was born in Campden Hill in Kensington, London, the son of Marie Louise, nee Grosjean, and Edward Chesterton.[9][10] He was baptized at the age of one month into the Church of England,[11] though his family themselves were irregularly practising Unitarians.[12] According to his autobiography, as a young man Chesterton became fascinated with the occult and, along with his brother Cecil, experimented with Ouija boards.[13]

Chesterton was educated at St Paul's School, then attended the Slade School of Art in order to become an illustrator. The Slade is a department of University College London, where Chesterton also took classes in literature, but did not complete a degree in either subject.

Family life
Chesterton married Frances Blogg in 1901; the marriage lasted the rest of his life. Chesterton credited Frances with leading him back to Anglicanism, though he later considered Anglicanism to be a "pale imitation". He entered full communion with the Catholic Church in 1922.[14]

Yeah, I also quote Solomon. He turned out bad, but what he wrote had merit. Jehovah God thought so, too. Lol.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'm working on my "spin" for this one. In the mean time, would you mind giving your explanation on the following?






Does "ALL" really mean, "ALL" or did Jesus know we would read between the lines and understand that He meant "MOST" or "ALL OTHER" authority was given to Him?

If He has "ALL" authority in heaven, what does that leave for anyone else? If He has "ALL" authority on earth, what does that leave for anyone else?

In the OT, God was King, as of 1914 Jesus became King. How many Kings are in the Kingdom of God?

Wow, I'm surprised you differentiated between God and Jesus! He's still Jesus' superior....or don't you agree with 1 Corinthians 11:3 or 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 or Ephesians 1:17-22? Etc.

BTW, since Jesus does have "all authority" then, how important is it to obey Him in loving your brothers and your enemies? Or does obedience only go 'so far'?
With Christendom, I guess there is a limit. Nationalism takes precedence, huh?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You implied that the JWs have international unity and peace, etc.

I was showing that this is not correct. Sex law suits, splinter groups, etc.

And that these splinter groups have nothing to do with the main JW Church, is YOUR opinion. They obviously thought the church had gone wrong, - away from the teachings, - and thus broke-off from it, - forming groups of their own.

All is not well on the JW Front, - Just as with the other churches.

*

Where? When? Who? The Millennial Dawnists? Lol

 

[Ingledsva]

Where? When? Who? The Millennial Dawnists? Lol

Full sentences with descriptors would let me know what information you actually want.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/20779/splinter-groups?page=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_splinter_groups

"Dozens of lawsuits in recent years have focused on a series of Watchtower memos dating back to 1989 that direct elders to keep cases of child abuse secret from law enforcement and their congregations.

Watchtower officials have testified under oath that since 1997, the organization has collected detailed information on known child sexual abusers in its congregations.

Last year, a San Diego judge awarded Jose Lopez – a former Jehovah’s Witness who was abused by a man in his San Diego congregation when he was 7 years old – $13.5 million after the Watchtower refused to provide its list of known predators."

https://www.revealnews.org/article/...hild-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/leaders-jehovahs-witnesses-cover-child-sex-abuse/

Is this what you wanted?

*

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Full sentences with descriptors would let me know what information you actually want.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/20779/splinter-groups?page=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_splinter_groups

"Dozens of lawsuits in recent years have focused on a series of Watchtower memos dating back to 1989 that direct elders to keep cases of child abuse secret from law enforcement and their congregations.

Watchtower officials have testified under oath that since 1997, the organization has collected detailed information on known child sexual abusers in its congregations.

Last year, a San Diego judge awarded Jose Lopez – a former Jehovah’s Witness who was abused by a man in his San Diego congregation when he was 7 years old – $13.5 million after the Watchtower refused to provide its list of known predators."

https://www.revealnews.org/article/...hild-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/leaders-jehovahs-witnesses-cover-child-sex-abuse/

Is this what you wanted?

*

So many facts regarding the child sex abuse are distorted! I'm well aware of some of these cases, and more recent updates to Jehovah's people in handling and combating these vile events against children! And the vast majority are not committed by shepherds.

However, I thank you for the information regarding these splinter groups, I was not aware; like from the site entitled, 'friends of Jehovah'sWitnesses.' With friends like that, to 'subvert the faith(2 Timothy 2:18)', who needs enemies?! Conflicting stories, though, for some.

One group, "true faith Jehovah'sWitnesses," with members in Romania and "USSR"(?? -must be old) is "estimated" to have 100,000 members? I doubt this is true: Same group, on another site, has "5 members in St. Petersburg"! Numbers don't sound right.

But, there are more factions than I realized, so thanks for bringing it to my attention! I think many of these are now defunct.

 

[Deeje]

What was believed and taught first? There is a hell (eternal punishment)

Yes, but the hell of the Bible is not the one taught by Christendom.....(Eccl 9:5, 10; Acts 24:15) The Jews had the same belief about death as Jesus taught. (John 11:11-14)
Eternal punishment is eternal death.....which meant no resurrection. You are confusing hades with gehenna. (both commonly translated "hell")
Jesus never taught about burning forever in hell, because Jews never had this belief.....so which came first? Who deviated?

there is a trinity, Jesus is God.

Please provide one single admission from Jesus that he is God or even on equal footing with his God and Father. (John 17:3; 14:28; Rev 3:12, 14)
If Jesus did not teach that he is Almighty God and the trinity was not accepted as official church doctrine until over 300 years after Jesus died...which came first? Who deviated?

The watchtower taught this is all wrong. Who wandered off from the truth?

Christendom wandered off the path centuries ago.....but, right on time, Jehovah 'cleansed and refined' his worshippers so that he got them back on track. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10)
God said that the "wicked" would not understand a thing.....so they refused to be cleansed and refined. Like the Pharisees, they clung to their traditions and false beliefs.

You really have no idea where your doctrines came from, do you?

 

[savagewind]

BTW, since Jesus does have "all authority" then, how important is it to obey Him in loving your brothers and your enemies? Or does obedience only go 'so far'?

Since when is love and to be in agreement the same?
The JWs call people who disagree with JW dogma haters. Do you know why?

 

[Desert Snake]

Since when is love and to be in agreement the same?
The JWs call people who disagree with JW dogma haters. Do you know why?

Why don't you just tell us why?

 

[savagewind]

So many facts regarding the child sex abuse are distorted! I'm well aware of some of these cases, and more recent updates to Jehovah's people in handling and combating these vile events against children! And the vast majority are not committed by shepherds.

Mark 9:42 "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.
How many?

However, I thank you for the information regarding these splinter groups, I was not aware; like from the site entitled, 'friends of Jehovah'sWitnesses.' With friends like that, to 'subvert the faith(2 Timothy 2:18)', who needs enemies?! Conflicting stories, though, for some.

Are people subverting the faith that believes after all these years of searching for God Jehovah finally set up a ridiculous group of men FOR US? You DO know the Bible says that you can't serve two master effectively. Don't you?

 

[savagewind]

Why don't you just tell us why?

I'm asking them. I do not know why. Some people might say that Satan makes them do it but I do not think that way. Do you?

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm asking them. I do not know why. Some people might say that Satan makes them do it but I do not think that way. Do you?

I'm not, /and have never been/, a JW. I would guess that either the reason you gave is the answer, or, they simply find no reason to doubt their own position, hence any opposition is related to hateful naysaying. In the context of complete adherence, it has a certain logic

 

[savagewind]

I'm not, /and have never been/, a JW. I would guess that either the reason you gave is the answer, or, they simply find no reason to doubt their own position, hence any opposition is related to hateful naysaying. In the context of complete adherence, it has a certain logic

Right. I agree. But then THEY practice hate too. Opposition to Christendom is what they DO. Actually, opposition to the whole world is what they do. They say that you can not be saved unless you become like they are.

@Jesu disciple When anyone leaves the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses he or she is ostracized by governing body order. The reason they give is that if the person isn't shown love he or she will come back to them for it. Some of them strictly obey the order because they are told that salvation is found only with them. So to hate one leaving is really loving them.

 

[Desert Snake]

Right. I agree. But then THEY practice hate too. Opposition to Christendom is what they DO. Actually, opposition to the whole world is what they do. They say that you can not be saved unless you become like they are.

That alone is not necessarily ''bad'', //ie what you described, imo. This seems entirely contextual or reliant to specific arguments.

 

[savagewind]

That alone is not necessarily ''bad'', //ie what you described, imo. This seems entirely contextual or reliant to specific arguments.

So are you saying it is right for them to hate but it is wrong for me to hate?

How so? It is because you side with them saying that they are not wrong but they are saying that I am wrong and you seem to be saying it is not wrong to say I am wrong.

 

[Desert Snake]

So are you saying it is right for them to hate but it is wrong for me to hate?

How so? It is because you side with them saying that they are not wrong but they are saying that I am wrong and you seem to be saying it is not wrong to say I am wrong.

I'm not saying your wrong, because they are right. My disagreements with your positions have nothing to do with JW church. ''Hate'', is subjective, and accusation thusly must be in some sort of logical pretext. I'm not saying that you ''hate'' anything, never noticed that

 

[kerndog]

The people we bring in are from the world, you can't blame a whole organization for an individual's actions. As for the splinter groups they are not associated with us what so ever, it's JW or nothing.

Yea, some of these people are desperately trying to scratch and claw for any little tidbit, when they can not defend their position, i have noticed that many of Deejes post are challenged with NOTHING from scripture, they will abandon bible and resort to attacking the organization itself, they can no longer use scripture, instead of looking into Gods word a little deeper and learning, it angers them, cant seem to swallow their pride. You mentioned that no religion is immune to gross Immoral behavior, that is FACT ! For crying out loud, there was even a popular weekly TV show here entitled "SINISTER MINISTERS" , Every week was a new Episode of sexually deviant , murderous, corrupt, pastors, ministers, priest, so yea, there is no shortage of this, the difference between us and them is, WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT ? When it is PROVEN what they have done, is it winked at, and shuffled to another parish or congregation , or is it decisively dealt with as the scriptures implore us to do ? There are a few ex-JWs on here, 2 apostates for sure, this is who they seek out for a way to justify their actions, as if they are getting the true skinny as to whats going on. We are hated , we get it , it is part of the teritory, we will deal with it as Jesus instructed, as for apostates, you want to listen to their UNREPENTANT garbage they spew, treat yourself, as Jesus said, if the blind want to follow the blind, they both will fall into a pit !

 

[savagewind]

. We are hated , we get it ,

We as in the people? Who is hating you?
YOU hate wrong dogma and I do too. It is YOUR fault that you cling to it. It is not my fault.

 

[savagewind]

I have prayed about the meaning of people coming with something and I have been shown what it means. The Jehovah's Witnesses do not identify with individuals. They see that they can be saved only with believing the right thing.

 

[kerndog]

So many facts regarding the child sex abuse are distorted! I'm well aware of some of these cases, and more recent updates to Jehovah's people in handling and combating these vile events against children! And the vast majority are not committed by shepherds.

However, I thank you for the information regarding these splinter groups, I was not aware; like from the site entitled, 'friends of Jehovah'sWitnesses.' With friends like that, to 'subvert the faith(2 Timothy 2:18)', who needs enemies?! Conflicting stories, though, for some.

One group, "true faith Jehovah'sWitnesses," with members in Romania and "USSR"(?? -must be old) is "estimated" to have 100,000 members? I doubt this is true: Same group, on another site, has "5 members in St. Petersburg"! Numbers don't sound right.

But, there are more factions than I realized, so thanks for bringing it to my attention! I think many of these are now defunct.

Yes it is exactly as Paul warned at.....ACTS 20:29,30...He said "From AMONG YOU yourselves, men will rise and speak twisted things to DRAW AWAY THE DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES" ...These ones want to create a new following for themselves, and these splinter groups have done exactly that, they seem to love the idea of being looked up to by people. These are the works of the flesh, the apostle Paul warned us about at ...GAL.5:19-21...and what are some of these ? VS.20 answers, DISSENTIONS, DIVISIONS, SECTS, we all have the information to make a INFORMED decision, Choose WISELY !

 

[savagewind]

"From among you yourselves, men will rise and speak twisted things

I will give you an example of a "twisted thing".
Psalms 146:3 ....... Matthew 24:45 .....are noble men according to those who twist scripture. You know, like for real?