How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[Hockeycowboy]

According to the myths that you believe in he got angry countless times.

That comment right there reveals how little you know about my beliefs. Lol.

You could learn about what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe if you wanted; I could teach you. That would alleviate your ignorance.
Because otherwise, your attempts at belittling me just betray…. an emptiness.

And there you go again, denigrating the writings of Israelite / Jewish prophets as “myths.”

 

[Subduction Zone]

That comment right there reveals how little you know about my beliefs. Lol.

You could learn about what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe if you wanted; I could teach you. That would alleviate your ignorance.
Because otherwise, your attempts at belittling me just betray…. an emptiness.

And there you go again, denigrating the writings of Israelite / Jewish prophets as “myths.”

No, not at all. You will just make the false claim that God was not mad when he demonstrates clear rage in the Bible. If you believe the myths, then even if you deny it, you are saying that God gets mad. Just as you continually claim that your God is a liar without understanding how you claim that. It is not that other people are ignorant. You do not like that other people can reason rationally.

And how are facts "denigrating"? You seem to have a very odd definition for the word.

 

[blü 2]

Jesus “yelled”? Where does it say that in these accounts?

In John, I just read, “To those who sold doves he said, ‘Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!’ ”

In Matthews account, it says, “ “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’ “

Can you point out where it says Jesus is yelling?

I’ve known you up til now to be an honest individual, so from what I’ve learned about you, it surprises me that you would misrepresent the text here. Why?

“Uncontrolled”?
I see perfect control, considering the power Jesus is described as having. He always used it to help other humans, never to hurt.

And being perfect doesn’t mean you can’t get angry. Jehovah God has gotten angry at times.

Is God imperfect, then? Hardly.

(Having “fits of anger” implies losing control. Never is that good behavior. And never has God - or Jesus - “lost control”.)

In reflection, the Bible…in revealing Jehovah God’s loving actions and also His acts of vengeance….should help one to appreciate its candor.

Jehovah doesn’t hide His behavior.

I demur, old friend. Then and now the behavior attributed to Jesus in the 'cleansing of the temple' story is simply that of a thug. How could any unbiased onlooker disagree?

And as I mentioned above to @Sgt. Pepper, if Jesus didn't approve of this traditional practice, he was attacking the wrong people. The moneychangers were proceeding lawfully, and they were incapable of changing the rules which allowed them to trade. So if Jesus wanted change, his argument was with the temple authorities, not the traders.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And as I mentioned above to @Sgt. Pepper, if Jesus didn't approve of this traditional practice, he was attacking the wrong people. The moneychangers were proceeding lawfully, and they were incapable of changing the rules which allowed them to trade. So if Jesus wanted change, his argument was with the temple authorities, not the traders.

Hey blü 2.

These sellers were robbing the people, charging way more than was proper.

He called them “robbers,” didn’t he?
You knew that, I’m sure.

His indignation was justified.
But still, there was no ‘uncontrolled anger.’

So long.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hey blü 2.

These sellers were robbing the people, charging way more than was proper.

He called them “robbers,” didn’t he?
You knew that, I’m sure.

His indignation was justified.
But still, there was no ‘uncontrolled anger.’

So long.

How do you know that? The Bible says no such thing. Looks like Jesus was mad for no good reason again.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Then and now the behavior attributed to Jesus in the 'cleansing of the temple' story is simply that of a thug. How could any unbiased onlooker disagree?

Oh, you think so? I demur.
If that were true, the people would have avoided him. (Who wants to be around a thug?)
Is that what happened? No.

They loved him.

Those who were making huge profits, and the authorities who were receiving kickbacks… they were the ones who hated him.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How do you know that? The Bible says no such thing. Looks like Jesus was mad for no good reason again.

Matthew 21:13…
he said to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a cave of robbers.”


Do you wish to apologize?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Matthew 21:13…
he said to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a cave of robbers.”


Do you wish to apologize?

So what? And no of course not. Your skewed understanding leads to improper conclusions. Why should I apologize? Did you?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So what? And no of course not.

I figured as much.

Your skewed understanding leads to improper conclusions.

You don’t even know my understanding.

Jesus is not God, imo. He is not his Father.

And I haven’t denied God getting mad at all; i don’t know why you’d claim I wouldn’t admit it. - Psalm 2:11

But Jesus is not God. So saying Jehovah God exhibited anger at different times, is not saying Jesus did.

And one person’s ideas should have no bearing on the other person apologizing, when proven they are wrong about a certain matter.

 

[blü 2]

Hey blü 2.

These sellers were robbing the people, charging way more than was proper.

He called them “robbers,” didn’t he?
You knew that, I’m sure.

His indignation was justified.
But still, there was no ‘uncontrolled anger.’

So long.

We'll agree to disagree.

Go well.

 

[blü 2]

Oh, you think so? I demur.
If that were true, the people would have avoided him. (Who wants to be around a thug?)
Is that what happened? No.

They loved him.

Those who were making huge profits, and the authorities who were receiving kickbacks… they were the ones who hated him.

The temple was amongst other things an economic enterprise. It had to be maintained, kept clean, kept orderly. Since it was the centerpoint of 1st century Judaism, that meant a lot of work and organizing every day. If Jesus didn't like the moneychangers' fees and margins ─ as I said, they were doing nothing unlawful ─ his argument about how much they should charge was, once again, a matter that, if he wanted a result, could only be fixed by those in charge, not by those on the ground, who were breaking no laws as things stood.

Actually, I don't read it like. I read it as Jesus saying trading in the Temple was of itself an offense, and any price, whether for profit, break-even or loss, was wrong. But whether that's right or wrong, either way he should have aimed his argument at the Temple authorities and not the traders.

There's another story I recall where Jesus loses it, with the innocent fig tree, Mark 11:12+, interestingly immediately before and after the moneychangers episode. Seems he was having a bad day.

And there's no suggestion that he ever compensated the owner of the Gaderene swine either.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It could. I doubt science will ever have the ability to determine that with complete accuracy. I wish.

But the evidence could mean that (which I think it does.)

And that idea - to me - is far fetched.

Careful about saying “impossible“!
We still have a lot to learn! Look at all the genetic diversity we find in the varied canis genus.

Wait, so you don't "believe" in evolution, but you think it's possible that Noah's genome could contain or produce all of the genetic diversity that we see today in the Y-chromosome" ,,,, ? How does that make sense? In other words, you don't accept evolution but you believe the human race, like, super evolved over the last few thousand years??

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

According to the myths that you believe in he got angry countless times.

According to John 2:16, it is written that Jesus said, "Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!" Whenever someone tells others to "Get out of here!" it is not in a calm and polite tone of voice. It is an expression of anger and frustration. You will note that it isn't written that Jesus calmly said, "Would you kindly stop turning my Father's house into a market? I would appreciate it, thank you." On the contrary, it is written that he said, "Stop turning my Father's house into a market!" immediately after saying, "Get out of here!" It is also written that he fashioned a whip from cords and drove all the money exchangers, the sheep, and the cattle out of the temple, and then he scattered the coins of the money exchangers and overturned their tables, as well as the benches of those selling doves (Matthew 21:12–13; Mark 11:15–18). Tell me, does any of this sound like the actions of a calm and sensible man, or do they sound like the actions of a man who was thoroughly engaged and in a fit of rage by what he saw in the temple? It sounds like a fit of rage to me.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The temple was amongst other things an economic enterprise. It had to be maintained, kept clean, kept orderly. Since it was the centerpoint of 1st century Judaism, that meant a lot of work and organizing every day. If Jesus didn't like the moneychangers' fees and margins ─ as I said, they were doing nothing unlawful ─ his argument about how much they should charge was, once again, a matter that, if he wanted a result, could only be fixed by those in charge, not by those on the ground, who were breaking no laws as things stood.

Actually, I don't read it like. I read it as Jesus saying trading in the Temple was of itself an offense, and any price, whether for profit, break-even or loss, was wrong. But whether that's right or wrong, either way he should have aimed his argument at the Temple authorities and not the traders.

There's another story I recall where Jesus loses it, with the innocent fig tree, Mark 11:12+, interesting immediately before and after the moneychangers episode. Seems he was having a bad day.

And there's no suggestion that he ever compensated the owner of the Gaderene swine either.

This. ^

Well said, blü 2.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't even pretend to understand how or when man began to sin, but I believe he did, and that Jesus came into this world to save man from sin.

 

[blü 2]

I don't even pretend to understand how or when man began to sin, but I believe he did, and that Jesus came into this world to save man from sin.

You don't think "sin" is simply a colored word for antisocial behavior that occurs (in its various forms) in the groupings of all gregarious animals?

 

[Kathryn]

You don't think "sin" is simply a colored word for antisocial behavior that occurs (in its various forms) in the groupings of all gregarious animals?

No, I believe "sin" is an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.

 

[metis]

I voted for Joe Biden in the sincere hope that he would be a better president than his predecessor, and while he is far from perfect, I still believe that he is a vast improvement over the narcissistic madman he replaced. I voted for him because I thought that he'd have a good chance of beating that narcissistic madman and becoming the next president. I took a chance, and it worked out for me. As I explained in my prior post in another thread, it truly cost me in my life to oppose his predecessor and vote for him (see my post here). Despite everything, I have no regrets about opposing and voting against Trump.

Just for the record, I 100% agree with you.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

According to John 2:16, it is written that Jesus said, "Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!" Whenever someone tells others to "Get out of here!" it is not in a calm and polite tone of voice. It is an expression of anger and frustration. You will note that it isn't written that Jesus calmly said, "Would you kindly stop turning my Father's house into a market? I would appreciate it, thank you." On the contrary, it is written that he said, "Stop turning my Father's house into a market!" immediately after saying, "Get out of here!" It is also written that he fashioned a whip from cords and drove all the money exchangers, the sheep, and the cattle out of the temple, and then he scattered the coins of the money exchangers and overturned their tables, as well as the benches of those selling doves (Matthew 21:12–13; Mark 11:15–18). Tell me, does any of this sound like the actions of a calm and sensible man, or do they sound like the actions of a man who was thoroughly engaged and in a fit of rage by what he saw in the temple? It sounds like a fit of rage to me.

And what happened immediately afterwards, according to the account in Matthew 21?
In verse 14…
“Also, blind and lame people came to him in the temple, and he cured them.”
If he had been in a “fit of rage,” as you said, do you think people would have approached him? In fact, one account says there were ‘boys in the Temple, saying “Save, we pray, the Son of David.”’

It’s always beneficial to look at context.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Wait, so you don't "believe" in evolution….

you don't accept evolution….

You are wrong. I’ve stated my view on this a few times. It’s created quite a bit of diversity.

What I have said is that evolution has limits.