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How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Trailblazer said:
That's right, and it should be ruled out, except in cases of infidelity, and I think Bible says that divorce is allowed, but only in those cases.
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They should continue even if there is infidelity by partners. What God has joined cannot be torn for any reason. And if divorce is allowed for some reason, why did God join them in the first place?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
They should continue even if there is infidelity by partners. What God has joined cannot be torn for any reason. And if divorce is allowed for some reason, why did God join them in the first place?
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I agree that they shouldn't divorce even if there is adultery, but I didn't write the Bible.

Matthew 19:9 NIRV
Here is what I tell you. Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery. A man may divorce his wife only if she has not been faithful to him.”
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Trailblazer said:
I agree that they shouldn't divorce even if there is adultery, but I didn't write the Bible.

Matthew 19:9 NIRV
Here is what I tell you. Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery. A man may divorce his wife only if she has not been faithful to him.”
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Oh yeah, NT was finally compiled in the 4th Century. And what Bahaollah said was modified by Abbas and Shoghi.
Nothing about adultery by men in Bible and what a woman could do in that case? What did the latest manifestation of Allah say about that?
 
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exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
I agree that they shouldn't divorce even if there is adultery, but I didn't write the Bible.

Matthew 19:9 NIRV
Here is what I tell you. Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery. A man may divorce his wife only if she has not been faithful to him.”
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That looks like a different translation from what I am used to.

The Jerusalem bible has: "Now I say this to you: anyone who divorces his wife - I am not speaking of an illicit marriage - and marries another, is guilty of adultery."

Nothing about wives being unfaithful, at all. Just as well, as singling out the woman would be very unfair.

Actually I have noticed that Christ almost never seems to say anything that gives women a lower presumed status than men. This is a change from the OT. (Having said this, I'm sure some smartarse will come up with examples:))
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
If that is so, then divorce for any reason is ruled out.
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Lots of people quote Christian things from the NT and say that it is from the Bible. I looked up Biblical divorce laws in Judaism and this is a quote from one of the articles...

According to biblical law, a man is permitted to divorce his wife at will and send her away from his home. The second aspect highlights biblical women’s vulnerability: economic, physical, and psychological uprooting faced the woman who displeased her husband sufficiently to cause him to divorce her. She had no leverage to prevent or refuse the divorce. Neither could she divorce him.​
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When a man takes a wife and marries her, if she finds no favor in his eyes because of ervat davar (some fault or indecency) and he writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house–and she marries another man, and the latter… writes her a bill of divorce… or dies–then her former husband cannot marry her again because she has been defiled… (Deuteronomy 24:1-4​
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Then... if she cheats on him with another man, she's got more to worry about than him divorcing her... she could be stoned to death.

The Torah is clear that adultery is a serious sin. In the Ten Commandments, God tells us not to commit adultery (Exodus 20:14). This commandment is repeated in the book of Leviticus (Leviticus 18:20) and in the book of Deuteronomy (Deuteronomy 5:18).​
The Torah also gives us a clear definition of what adultery is. Adultery is defined as having sexual relations with a married woman who is not your wife (Leviticus 20:10). This includes both having sexual intercourse with her, and any other sexual activity that would be considered intercourse (such as oral sex).​
The punishment for adultery is severe. In the book of Leviticus, God tells us that the punishment for adultery is death (Leviticus 20:10).​
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These types of laws and things are part of the reason why I don't believe in the Baha'i concept of progressive revelation. Some religious laws are regressive and aren't meant to be the law for all people, that is replacing the social laws of all the previous religions but are very much tied in with the times and culture of the people. And I think it was the religious leaders of those people that invented those laws... not some invisible God. But I also believe that the law carried much more weight by attributing it to their God.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
Then the point is wrong.
There was a complete sacrifice because Jesus was fully human and He died…period. As the scriptures state He died the for sins of human beings, so He had to be human and die a human death.
He came back to life because He is also fully God. Because He is fully God, He alone could pay for the sins of the world and provide new, eternal life.
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Is that like when companies change names to get out of paying their bills?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
Oh yeah, NT was finally compiled in the 4th Century. And what Bahaollah said was modified by Abbas and Shoghi.
Nothing about adultery by men in Bible and what a woman could do in that case? What did the latest manifestation of Allah say about that?
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Baha'u'llah did not say that adultery is grounds for a divorce. The only legitimate grounds for a divorce is if there is an aversion for each other.
That means you hate your spouse. In that case it is better to get divorced rather than live in disunity.
Sadly, it is obvious to me that most Baha'is do not follow this guidance, since they get divorced for all manner of selfish reasons.
 
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Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
These types of laws and things are part of the reason why I don't believe in the Baha'i concept of progressive revelation. Some religious laws are regressive and aren't meant to be the law for all people, that is replacing the social laws of all the previous religions but are very much tied in with the times and culture of the people. And I think it was the religious leaders of those people that invented those laws... not some invisible God. But I also believe that the law carried much more weight by attributing it to their God.
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It is true that religions are very much tied in with the times and culture of the people since Messengers of God reveal what is in accordance with the necessities of the times.

“The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.”​

In every age God reveals principles and laws through His Messenger which are later established as religions.
The Messenger reveals what is required for the people who are living in that age. That is what progressive revelation is all about.

“The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.” ​
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
One cannot learn very much of the incredible nature of the universe, from the beautiful simplicity of the atomic structure of the elements to the incomprehensible complexity of a living cell with ten thousand chemical reactions going on at once in perfect balance with one another, without realizing that it couldn’t have happened by chance.”
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Too many things go wrong to consider Yahweh a competent creator.
 
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