firedragon
Veteran Member
Haha. Nope. It applies to both. If one is making a claim both metaphysical or as an agent both fail in the case of the future.
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How can you tell if a Prophet is true?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
The Bible is indeed a Testament of what Jesus's offered from Allah. It is indeed a sure spiritual guide.
Abdul'baha put it this way
Inscription in the Old Bible
Written by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in Persian
THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God. 'Abdu'l-Bahá 'Abbás.
Regards Tony
Sorry .. but there is no evidence to suggest Paul believed in the Physical Resurrection .. all the evidence suggesting he believed in a spiritual resurrection and Paul knows nothing about Zombie Jesus wandering around... Your claim is unsupported grasping at straws and strawman fallacy.
We do not hear acknowledgement of the "Smoking Gun" until the early part of the second century AD ..
You are simply claiming it fails without showing why.
I believe whatever is confirmed by God’s Manifestations. For example. Nowhere in the Bible is the trinity mention by Christ. And nowhere does He state that He is the physical Son of God yet a vast majority of Christians believe that Jesus is God in the flesh and in the trinity.
So how are we to know the truth? God sent down Muhammad and the Quran, and in the Book it is clearly stated that these are misconceptions. But Christians failed to turn to Prophet Muhammad and the Quran so remain deprived of Divine guidance.
Yeah and Muslims failed to turn to Baha'u'llah and the Kitab-i-Iqan/Kitab-i-Aqdas and so remain deprived of divine guidance, oh and Baha'i allegedly see all humans as equal and are allegedly humble but contrary to this claim those who failed to turn to the next "Manifestation of God" whether Jew, Christian or Muslim are all deprived of divine guidance.
Thank you for finally coming clean about Baha'i teachings in my view.
Paul wrote 1 Corinthians around 53/4 CE
That was before the Gospel of Mark (according to commonly accepted dating)
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures, and that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that he was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15: 3-7
EDIT: Paul claims to have encountered Christ, seeing a bright light and hearing a voice, which is not the same as the other apostles' encounters with the resurrected Jesus. This is accepted, that Paul himself did not claim to see the resurrected body of Jesus Christ. Paul's encounter with Christ happened after the ascension.
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That has been offered since the mid 1800's, starting with the Message of the Bab, it is not new and has also been offered many times here on RF.
It is Biblical Prophecy, that such a thing will happen. This is a result of our own choices.
Regards Tony
The fact that you have not does not mean others have not. It's just demonstrably true that numerous people have existed and exist today who have a strong and unmistakable ability to powerfully affect people whom they meet leading to creating blindly loyal fans and followers or adherents. Some of them are good, some neutral, some evil. Because of this, this ability or "charisma" cannot be said to be correlated with spiritual attainment. Though spiritual leaders having such charisma will become more popular and successful, just as popstars or politicians or con-artists with same ability will also be that way.
Nothing about your own personal experience negates this widely observed fact.
If the path produces results that are promised, then the path is true and the propounder of the path gave a teaching that is true.
For example the followers of Buddha attained the bodhi state marked by cessation of suffering by following his methods. So the method works. Even today it works, as many monks will attest.
Similarly the path of yoga yields the results that are promised to its practitioners etc etc.
About Abrahamic religions, I do not know. Maybe presence of the Holy Spirit is felt?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Nope. I said "why".
Because you don't know the consequences of something in 500 years or a millennium. That's why.
Cheers.
firedragon
Veteran Member
How are Christians relevant? I am asking you from your own perspective.
Do you believe the Bible is God's word? If so, why?
I believe it contains the Word of God as in Moses and Jesus were Prophets of God and there were minor prophets too.
But there are some chapters with author unknown so we do not know about these unless the Quran or Baha’u’llah refer to them.
They use mindfulness today to help heal those with mental trauma so the Buddha’s teaching on mindfulness and meditation are very much alive and of great value to us all.
Actually, I never personally met Sathya Sai Baba. I was at a gathering of a few thousand people and he just walked between the crowd of people without speaking a word, at a distance of at least a couple of hundred yards from me. He is not exactly a 'beauty' to look at and he did not look at me either. So, I am not sure what 'charisma' was involved. Clearly you have not had the experience of being in the presence of such a person.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So how do you pick the "word of God" out of the "other"? What's your criteria?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But, for Baha'is, it's not literally true... just symbolically true. Plus, Baha'is can't be sure about the authenticity of a verse unless one of the Baha'i prophets quoted that verse.
The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá’u’lláh.
Shoghi Effendi, Extracts From The Bahá’í Writings And From Letters Of The Guardian And The Universal House Of Justice On The Old And New Testaments
We cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we
We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá’í writings.
Shoghi Effendi, Extracts From The Bahá’í Writings And From Letters Of The Guardian And The Universal House Of Justice On The Old And New Testaments
ChieftheCef
Well-Known Member
Science, not prophesy
All prophecies were created by Ancient Governments of all religions
They were written before by people who had the intel from other, including enemy nations of what’s going to happen. They also knew the science of the day, which included spirituality (diseases were known to be spread by contact, they couldn’t understand why such a positive world would make it so horrible}. They knew the land was drying by the receding of the deserts; drying of aquifers.
They knew the weather would change because they had historical scientific records. They just also knew no one believed them at the time.
“Interestingly enough, the section that makes the claim is not able to present even one verse that specifically makes a prophecy about restoring the Jews to their homeland (such verses do exist), but rather a series of verses that simply state that if they don’t fall in line, then God will scatter them. To be honest, I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find any nation state from that time that has not seen their descendants scattered across the earth.”
This shows that they were man-made by teams of people so eloquently.
Ezekiel 26:1-7
A Prophecy Against Tyre
26 In the eleventh month of the twelfth[a] year, on the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, ‘Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,’ therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves.They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.
See according to the Babylonians at the time Tyre would be no more. They released the story…
“Here God explicitly states that Nebuchadnezzar would completely sack and destroy the city of Tyre and that Tyre’s land would never be built upon again. However, this never occurred. After a 13-year siege, Tyre compromised with Nebuchadnezzar and accepted his authority without being destroyed. Despite being conquered and razed by Alexander the Great 240 years later, Tyre still exists.”
And had to change it but couldn’t.
“These “prophets” were also frequently so vague in the predictions they made that you could mold them into about any historical event you wanted.”
For many prophecies they just wrote it in after the fact as fulfilled.
All quotes from Claimed Evidence: Prophecy in the Bible • Skeptical Science (skeptical-science.com)
.
All prophecies were created by Ancient Governments of all religions
They were written before by people who had the intel from other, including enemy nations of what’s going to happen. They also knew the science of the day, which included spirituality (diseases were known to be spread by contact, they couldn’t understand why such a positive world would make it so horrible}. They knew the land was drying by the receding of the deserts; drying of aquifers.
They knew the weather would change because they had historical scientific records. They just also knew no one believed them at the time.
“Interestingly enough, the section that makes the claim is not able to present even one verse that specifically makes a prophecy about restoring the Jews to their homeland (such verses do exist), but rather a series of verses that simply state that if they don’t fall in line, then God will scatter them. To be honest, I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find any nation state from that time that has not seen their descendants scattered across the earth.”
This shows that they were man-made by teams of people so eloquently.
Ezekiel 26:1-7
A Prophecy Against Tyre
26 In the eleventh month of the twelfth[a] year, on the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, ‘Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,’ therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves.They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.
See according to the Babylonians at the time Tyre would be no more. They released the story…
“Here God explicitly states that Nebuchadnezzar would completely sack and destroy the city of Tyre and that Tyre’s land would never be built upon again. However, this never occurred. After a 13-year siege, Tyre compromised with Nebuchadnezzar and accepted his authority without being destroyed. Despite being conquered and razed by Alexander the Great 240 years later, Tyre still exists.”
And had to change it but couldn’t.
“These “prophets” were also frequently so vague in the predictions they made that you could mold them into about any historical event you wanted.”
For many prophecies they just wrote it in after the fact as fulfilled.
All quotes from Claimed Evidence: Prophecy in the Bible • Skeptical Science (skeptical-science.com)
.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So, is it true the it was Ishmael, and not Isaac taken to be sacrificed? Is it true that Jesus did not die on the cross? Did Jesus make some birds out of clay and they came to life? Did Mary give birth to Jesus under a date palm tree?
If it is in the Quran, then it must be true and the Bible wrong? Right? Or was the Bible wrong and the Quran also wrong with some of those things it said and Baha'u'llah corrected them?
And going back in time, what did Moses correct from the manifestations that came before him? Especially Krishna? Then... what did Buddha correct about Moses' teachings? Or... did Krishna and Buddha have nothing to do with Moses or any other Abrahamic prophet?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
How about when Bill Sears, a Baha'i Hand of Cause, quotes them and claims that they are a prophecy about the Bab or Baha'u'llah?
Oh, and who is this John that wrote the Book of Revelation? Do Baha'is believe it is the apostle John that the early Church says wrote the Gospel of John?
Here's what wikipedia says...
John the Apostle is traditionally held to be the author of the Gospel of John, and many Christian denominations believe that he authored several other books of the New Testament (the three Johannine epistles and the Book of Revelation, together with the Gospel of John, are called the Johannine works), depending on whether he is distinguished from, or identified with, John the Evangelist, John the Elder, and John of Patmos.
Although the authorship of the Johannine works has traditionally been attributed to John the Apostle,[15] only a minority of contemporary scholars believe he wrote the gospel,[16] and most conclude that he wrote none of them.[15][17][18] Regardless of whether or not John the Apostle wrote any of the Johannine works, most scholars agree that all three epistles were written by the same author and that the epistles did not have the same author as the Book of Revelation, although there is widespread disagreement among scholars as to whether the author of the epistles was different from that of the gospel.