How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[waitasec]

I implied nothing----that is your M.O.
Your above comments are "fruit" which negates any "suggestions" from you.

liar liar pants on fire.....:slap:

Sleep on, One misses a lot by choosing "sleep" rather than gathering information concerning a better LIFE. (which isn't false nor split)

You are still projecting as seen when you apply your "implying" to this bit of "arrogance".

blah blah blah...

your passive aggressive tactics are not original...
seen it many many times...

it is your truth. get used to it.

When are you going to start presenting information on a "better life"?

opcorn:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/127465-why-not-let-god-speak-himself.html

 

[sincerly]

liar liar pants on fire.....:slap:

blah blah blah...

Thanks for showing real intelligence!

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/127465-why-not-let-god-speak-himself.html

That is why I posted the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures.

 

[waitasec]

Thanks for showing real intelligence!

so typical...
i thought you were a christian, why resort to insults...aren't you more accountable than i...since you know... the truth?

That is why I posted the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures.

:biglaugh:
hence all the different interpretations...

funny. the holy spirit is there to inspire scripture but goes missing when one is interpreting it.

lame

 

[sincerly]

so typical...
i thought you were a christian, why resort to insults...aren't you more accountable than i...since you know... the truth?

Why did You? """"liar liar pants on fire.....:slap:""""
As far as "accountability", ALL will answer for their actions. "Christian" or NOT.

THE Truth was given by GOD. I obey it just as all should.

Originally Posted by waitasec
liar liar pants on fire.....:slap:

blah blah blah...

[/quote]

Thanks for showing real intelligence!

If you are insulted, those two posts were/are your creations.

hence all the different interpretations...

funny. the holy spirit is there to inspire scripture but goes missing when one is interpreting it.

lame

NO! HE inspired Isa.8:20, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them."
Man may try/insist on corrupting the Scriptures by their "interpretation" of the "Scriptures", but the Scriptures will always reflect the Truth.

 

[waitasec]

Man may try/insist on corrupting the Scriptures by their "interpretation" of the "Scriptures", but the Scriptures will always reflect the Truth.

right...the holy spirit is there to inspire scripture but goes missing when one is interpreting it...

how convenient.

 

[sincerly]

right...the holy spirit is there to inspire scripture but goes missing when one is interpreting it...

how convenient.

There are enough examples which have been recorded for our admonition for anyone seeking the Truth of the Holy Spirit to know and understand it. HE or IT is not missing to the true seeker.
The one who is attempting to manipulate the scriptures to fit their own mistaken ideas are only deceiving themselves.

 

[waitasec]

There are enough examples which have been recorded for our admonition for anyone seeking the Truth of the Holy Spirit to know and understand it. HE or IT is not missing to the true seeker.
The one who is attempting to manipulate the scriptures to fit their own mistaken ideas are only deceiving themselves.

obviously you are mistaken.




edit:
instead of derailing this thread

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/127581-different-truths-not-same.html

maybe you'll learn something...

 

[sincerly]

obviously you are mistaken.




edit:
instead of derailing this thread

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/127581-different-truths-not-same.html

maybe you'll learn something...

Yes, I saw opinions, but nothing that was verifiable (Even to your"""obviously you are mistaken""".. Just as with your conclusions when trying to twist the Scriptures from their intended meaning.

The topic is based upon the Scriptural account.

 

[waitasec]

The topic is based upon the Scriptural account.

subjective scriptural accounts...
like i said, why does the holy spirit get the credit for getting it right and goes :run: when one is interpreting it...?

iow, why are there so many different interpretations of christianity?

List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sincerly]

subjective scriptural accounts...
like i said, why does the holy spirit get the credit for getting it right and goes :run: when one is interpreting it...?

iow, why are there so many different interpretations of christianity?

List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, "subjectively" given to Moses by GOD during those visits of instructions for Right living in a relationship to GOD and Mankind. Jesus confirmed the Genesis record 1500 years after Moses received and wrote it. The "thus saith the Lord" is still valid for all who Believe.

GOD doesn't prohibit one from disbelieving nor from twisting the scriptures to conform to ones own erroneous contrivings.

However, GOD has said, "If you Love me, keep my Commandments."
This was written in Judges 21:25, "
In those days [there was] no king in Israel: every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes." It is no different today; Your posts reflect how you interpret the scriptures and therefore, your "belief"(or non-belief).

It really isn't True "interpretations", but more "distortions" personally believed of the Truth which lead to all the varied denominations. The Truth is still in the Bible---which when allowed, interpretes itself----because it is inspired by the Holy spirit.

 

[michaelsherlock]

I was reading Gen 3 and I ended with more questions than answers.
1. Did God put Satan in the garden?
2. Didn't God know what would happen?
3 Did you notice that Satan always gives a piece of truth & a lie

I am new here, so forgive my ignorance, but how do we know that the serpent in the Garden is in fact, Satan and what exactly is Satan?

 

[idea]

I am new here, so forgive my ignorance, but how do we know that the serpent in the Garden is in fact, Satan and what exactly is Satan?

Welcome to RF!

Much of Eden is symbolic so I don't know about the snake, but good and evil exist. God is the ultimate good, Satan the ultimate evil. Satan is the author of death, imprisonment, sorrow, hatred, separation. God is the author of life, freedom, happiness, love, unity.

 

[outhouse]

I am new here, so forgive my ignorance, but how do we know that the serpent in the Garden is in fact, Satan and what exactly is Satan?

Welcome


We dont know.

Satan as written in lterature, did not exist when they wrote either version of genesis before they compiled them together.

And as wrongly pointed out above he did not start as "ultimate evil" it translates to adversary if im not mistaken.

The whole concept of Ha-satan is nothing more then a process of literary evolution that changed over the centuries.

 

[idea]

And as wrongly pointed out above he did not start as "ultimate evil" it translates to adversary if im not mistaken.

I was talking in the present tense above - what Satan now is - he is now the author of death/sorrow/etc. etc. I agree, death did not always exist.

 

[michaelsherlock]

Welcome to RF!

Much of Eden is symbolic so I don't know about the snake, but good and evil exist. God is the ultimate good, Satan the ultimate evil. Satan is the author of death, imprisonment, sorrow, hatred, separation. God is the author of life, freedom, happiness, love, unity.

I agree that much of the Eden story is possibly symbolic, and it may even be that God and Satan are symbolic as well, symbols for what we believe to be "good" and "evil". These symbols date back well before the Christian and even Judaism. The ancient Egyptians saw Osiris and Amen as Gods that embodied this principle, the ancient Persians saw Ahura Mazda as the God of Goodness and the Hindus, Bramah. The Persian religion seems to have been one of the first dualistic religions to seperate good and evil into two seperate characters Ahura Mazda symbolically representing goodness and Ahriman representing evil. It may also be that the Persians when freeing the Jews from Babylon in the 6th century BCE, influenced Judaism as we see that before this God of the Jews was responsible for both good and evil.

“I form the light and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things”　 Isaiah 45:7


Food for thought!

 

[michaelsherlock]

Welcome

We dont know.

Satan as written in lterature, did not exist when they wrote either version of genesis before they compiled them together.

And as wrongly pointed out above he did not start as "ultimate evil" it translates to adversary if im not mistaken.

The whole concept of Ha-satan is nothing more then a process of literary evolution that changed over the centuries.

Your words contain truth! Satan was a verb and an adjective, not a pronoun as it has been misinterpreted. If you look through the Tanakh you can see evidence of this;

1 Kings 11:14; “The Lord raised up an adversary (same Hebrew word elsewhere translated “satan”) against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite”.

1 Kings 11:23,25; “And God raised up another adversary (another satan)...Rezon ...he was an adversary (a satan) of Israel”

Job 9:15; “I must appeal for mercy to my accuser (satan)”

There is also the conflict between Samuel and Chronicles re; who inspired David to take the Census which becomes alot clearer if you understand that the "Satan" is Yahweh acting in the capacity of the accuser/opposer/adverary.

Then there is the whole Lucifer confusion, a Babylonian king, not the devil. So the whole issue around the Devil in the Hebrew Scriptures seems to have been a later addition, possibly Persian in origin, as there is evidence that God played both the role of the Devil and God;

“I form the light and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things”　 Isaiah 45:7

 

[outhouse]

who inspired David to take the Census which becomes alot clearer if you understand that the "Satan" is Yahweh acting in the capacity of the accuser/opposer/adverary.

You might want to check that, if what you state holds any water then its probably El Elyon not yahweh

Lucifer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Satan-Sataniel (sometimes identified with Samael) is described as having been one of the archangels. Because he contrived "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the earth and resemble 'My power' on high",


thats not a yahweh sort of verse

Then there is the whole Lucifer confusion, a Babylonian king, not the devil.

not true unless your missing something. You are close though

the babylonian king said "shining one" and is often properly associated with the morning star.


lucifer is just a later added myth of fallen angles to the whole satan concept.

of course all from falling stars

 

[michaelsherlock]

Why do you also seem surprised when people believe this?

You seem completely ignorant of the fact that not everyone follows your premise that the Bible is wrong, you often make assertions as though the mere fact that you believe it proves everything else wrong,

You have every right to an opinion and to develop it based on facts you observe but you come off as condescending to Bible-believers

You are exactly right! Just because someone believes something, it does not make it true! And the most interesting question I find, is why we believe at all? If it does not impact upon the truth, then why even beleive anything? It does not make a difference, all it does is slow down the cognitive progress of both the individual and the collective.

Belief is the ball and chain shackled to the leg of humanity.

We only believe it seems because we are affraid! This causes people to cling to irrational and outdated beliefs that serve merely as illusions, which slow down the mind and our march toward the truth.

All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.​

Schoepenhouer​

 

[michaelsherlock]

the babylonian king said "shining one" and is often properly associated with the morning star.


lucifer is just a later added myth of fallen angles to the whole satan concept.

of course all from falling stars

RIght! Ben Shachar and Hylel, are translated as, the Lux ferer, or light bearer, sun of the morning and day star are all translations.

this is funny, because at 2 Peter 1:19 referring to Jesus rising in your heart, we read in Jeromes' original Latin; et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et LUCIFER oriatur in cordibus vestris.

In English this verse reads; And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

So here the term Lucifer is being used to describe Christ!!

 

[waitasec]

Yes, "subjectively" given to Moses by GOD during those visits of instructions for Right living in a relationship to GOD and Mankind. Jesus confirmed the Genesis record 1500 years after Moses received and wrote it. The "thus saith the Lord" is still valid for all who Believe.

are you of the opinion that the israelites didn't know that killing and stealing from each other was a wrong?

my guess is that these instructions were for the purpose of keeping solidarity among a group of people by uniting them in purpose.

GOD doesn't prohibit one from disbelieving nor from twisting the scriptures to conform to ones own erroneous contrivings.

interesting standard...
but alas for you, that is the way it is, isn't it.
to each his own.

However, GOD has said, "If you Love me, keep my Commandments."
This was written in Judges 21:25, "
In those days [there was] no king in Israel: every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes." It is no different today; Your posts reflect how you interpret the scriptures and therefore, your "belief"(or non-belief).

whatever that means...

It really isn't True "interpretations", but more "distortions" personally believed of the Truth which lead to all the varied denominations. The Truth is still in the Bible---which when allowed, interpretes itself----because it is inspired by the Holy spirit.

assume much?