How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[outhouse]

You are looking at it through a 21st century lens

yes the lense that shows how ancients used serpenst/snakes in trees or poles

never being a adversary or devil

 

[fallingblood]

yes the lense that shows how ancients used serpenst/snakes in trees or poles

never being a adversary or devil

Why did ancients show serpents in trees or poles? My point is that your missing what the story actually says because you are too trapped in a 21 century frame work.

More so, you associate devil and adversary way too much. An adversary is one who opposes. It is one's opponent. We can definitely see the serpent being an opponent here. Why? Because he opposes what God wants, want he commanded.

Also, it may be worth actually addressing the other ideas I mentioned.

 

[outhouse]

Why did ancients show serpents in trees or poles? My point is that your missing what the story actually says because you are too trapped in a 21 century frame work.

read the wiki link on "serpents" and the "tree of life" concept. you will find nothing in that mythology that takes you to a adversary or the satan concept at all.

 

[outhouse]

Because he opposes what God wants, want he commanded.

the bible is not written like yin yang at all, not everything was satan or god related to good and bad.

it was written in mythology that has unique and porposeful meaning to different stories and charactors.


You are creating the adversary here the authors did not

 

[fallingblood]

read the wiki link on "serpents" and the "tree of life" concept. you will find nothing in that mythology that takes you to a adversary or the satan concept at all.

I have the Anchor Bible Dictionary, The Oxford Companion to the Bible, and a number of other books on mythology. I know what the serpent represents.

What I am asking you to do is to actually look at the story. Now, you have to understand that I am not saying that the serpent, simply being a serpent, represents an adversary. I am saying his actions put him as an adversary, and opponent.

What I am asking you to do is to actually consider why the serpent was chosen at all. You have before said it was because the serpent is despised creature, and that simply is not correct. You have said that it is just a serpent, and that is not so. There is a reason why it is put there.

the bible is not written like yin yang at all, not everything was satan or god related to good and bad.

it was written in mythology that has unique and porposeful meaning to different stories and charactors.


You are creating the adversary here the authors did not

I didn't say it had a yin yang feeling. I'm not even necessarily saying that the serpent is evil (and I'm definitely not saying that it was Satan). I'm not relating good and bad here, and neither have I ever said such.

Also, I understand it was written in mythology, and that is why I have tried to push you into explaining that mythology, as you keep stating such. Why not expand on what it actually means. It may just be useful. Such as, what does the serpent represent.

Finally, I'm not creating an adversary here. I'm looking at the story. God has a purpose for the Garden of Eden. If he didn't, he wouldn't have created it. God makes one rule that humans are meant to follow.

We then have a serpent, who opposes God's command. God tells human not to eat the fruit, the serpent says the opposite thing. There is an opposition there. The serpent is acting as an adversary, or God's opponent in this situation. Why, because the serpent knows what God said, knows that there is a rule for humans against eating that fruit, and then goes out and tries to convince humans to oppose the will of God.

Also, the idea that the serpent was an adversary, or opponent of God, is quite old, and began within the Jewish community, before Jesus was even born.

 

[outhouse]

What I am asking you to do is to actually look at the story. Now, you have to understand that I am not saying that the serpent, simply being a serpent, represents an adversary. I am saying his actions put him as an adversary, and opponent.

to who is he such??

to man, not god

 

[fallingblood]

to who is he such??

to man, not god

You really are missing what I am saying. Let's put the idea of adversary to the side. Because that is hardly my main point here.

 

[Thief]

You really are missing what I am saying. Let's put the idea of adversary to the side. Because that is hardly my main point here.

I think you should continue the pursuit....in spite of denial.

The serpent is indeed interfering and as such, is adversarial.

Your discussion holds well as is.

 

[outhouse]

You really are missing what I am saying. Let's put the idea of adversary to the side. Because that is hardly my main point here.

how about the poor inoccent tree is it the devil to LOL


because the tree is labeled as the "tree of the knowledge of good and of evil "

 

[fallingblood]

how about the poor inoccent tree is it the devil to LOL


because the tree is labeled as the "tree of the knowledge of good and of evil "

Have I stated anything is the devil? No. You can make ridiculous statements, and actually avoid the subject, but at least be honest about it. Don't try to imply I said things I didn't.

Also, do you understand why the tree is called such? What type of literary tool is being used, and why?

If we are going to discuss this myth, there is some background that needs to be known. More so, you need to have at least an elementary capability to follow what another person is saying.

 

[outhouse]

first of all this is about the tree of knowledge, a snake and he satan concept.

Tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Jewish tradition, the Tree of Knowledge and the eating of its fruit represents the beginning of the mixture of good and evil together. Before that time, the two were separate, and evil had only a nebulous existence in potentia. While free choice (apparently) did exist before eating the fruit, evil existed as an entity separate from the human psyche, and it was not in human nature to desire it. Eating and internalizing the forbidden fruit changed this and thus was born the yeitzer hara, the Evil Inclination

Yetzer hara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Although some forms of Judaism, both ancient and modern, do recognise the existence of supernatural evil, in particular fallen angels (as in the Dead Sea scrolls),[2][3][4] the yetzer hara is often presented as a personification of evil distinct from the supernatural Satan of traditional Christianity and Islam.


and for the snake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(Bible)


There is no indication in the Book of Genesis that the Serpent was a deity in its own right,



According to the Rabbinical tradition, the serpent represents sexual desire.[3][4]


The choice of a venomous snake for this role seems to arise from Near Eastern traditions associating snakes with danger and death, magic and secret knowledge, rejuvenation, immortality, and sexuality. It is also possible that the association of the snake with the nude goddess in Canaanite iconography lies behind the scene in the Garden between the reptile and naked Eve, "Mother of all life",[5] the "Great Mother Goddess of the Canaanites"[6] Qetesh.




Debate about the Serpent in Eden is whether it should be viewed figuratively or as a literal animal. Voltaire, drawing on Socinian influences, wrote: "It was so decidedly a real serpent, that all its species, which had before walked on their feet, were condemned to crawl on their bellies. No serpent, no animal of any kind, is called Satan, or Belzebub, or Devil, in the Pentateuch

 

[fallingblood]

Or in other words, you simply are not going to address what I'm saying. That's fine. Intellectual dishonesty may pass for you as a real argument, but not for me.

Also, if you want to actually learn about the subject, more than wikipedia is needed. Why? Because an encyclopedia can only give a general overview at best. And we are talking more than a general overview. But please, continue with the intellectual dishonesty, and dodging. I expect no less.

 

[outhouse]

We then have a serpent, who opposes God's command. God tells human not to eat the fruit, the serpent says the opposite thing. There is an opposition there.

no, adam and eve appose god, are they the devil.

Finally, I'm not creating an adversary here.

talk about dishonest.



I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguement

 

[sincerly]

that's what your bible claims...where did your god come from?

Agreed, The Bible attests to GOD speaking all things into existence.Then He took a part of the earth and made Man. Breathing into man's nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being. Awesome!! Not billions of years, but instantly.
What the "serpent" subtility/deceptively took away from Mankind, GOD had made away of escape(For all who will believe).

"From everlasting unto everlasting". No beginning and no ending.

and not only that, your babble claims to be an authority over how i should live my life according to ignorant sexist bigoted goat herders limited understanding of the micro and macro world...

give me a freakin break.

You have had your break and the "Authority" who made and does understand the "micro and macro world" knows all there is to know about you. All HE asks of you is to LOVE HIM with all your being and your neighbor as yourself. Is that so hard? I assure you that HE isn't bigoted---HE/Jesus died for all.

That test in the garden of Eden was just as at Sinai----"that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no".

 

[sincerly]

there was never a garden to begin with.

funny how you conveniently left out all the suffering one goes through with out the advancement of technology/medicine...from the rotting of teeth to child bearing...all while making this god of yours one who is concerned
yes yes what a convenient argument

I don't see any source for that statement--other than your claim??? Jesus spoke of it as real. That's good enough for me.

There is nothing funny concerning "suffering"/physical decay. But remember, that is and was the result of disobedience. Also, this is the preliminary results----The penalty is death. As above there is an option----Repent and live.

Man's "advancement of technology/medicine" doesn't end the suffering or death---just post-pones a little while. However, With the True Believer though the first death(Physical) is endured; In the Earth made new, those things will not be present.
Yes, indeed, the GOD of the Bible HAS Promised and will fulfill that which has been uttered. Christ's Resurrection attests to the validity of the fact.

That is the message of Gen.3:15 after the deception and the fall of mankind.

 

[fallingblood]

no, adam and eve appose god, are they the devil.

Where is the idea of the devil coming from here? Adversary doesn't mean devil. Again, adversary doesn't mean devil. When I say someone is an adversary, I am not calling them the devil. Adversary does not equal devil. I don't know how I can make that anymore clear.

And no, Adam and Eve are not opposing God. They are disobeying God. There is a difference.

talk about dishonest.

It isn't dishonest. I'm not creating anything here. I'm looking at the text, and explaining it. I'm not adding anything to the story. I'm not ignoring anything in the story.

I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguement

I think you simply want to avoid what I am actually saying. Like I said, we can ignore the idea of the adversary for right now. Just push it aside. Why not address the actual story? I will address you here again:

What did the snake represent? It has to represent something. And it isn't a talking snake, it is a serpent (snakes don't have feet, but a serpent can, after all, a dragon is a large serpent).

Why did they choose a serpent (this goes back to what the serpent represents)? They could have picked a different being. But they specifically picked the serpent. There must be a reason. And why make the serpent speak? There are many ways that Eve could have been tempted to eat that fruit. But we see specifically a serpent doing such (and no, serpents weren't a despised animal).

Again, I implore you to address what the myth really is about.

 

[outhouse]

adversary doesn't mean devil.

Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Satan (Hebrew: הַשָּׂטָן ha-Satan), "the opposer",

Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as “the accuser,” or “the adversary.”

Why did they choose a serpent (this goes back to what the serpent represents)? They could have picked a different being. But they specifically picked the serpent. There must be a reason. And why make the serpent speak? There are many ways that Eve could have been tempted to eat that fruit. But we see specifically a serpent doing such (and no, serpents weren't a despised animal).

been answered many times

The choice of a venomous snake for this role seems to arise from Near Eastern traditions associating snakes with danger and death, magic and secret knowledge, rejuvenation, immortality, and sexuality. It is also possible that the association of the snake with the nude goddess in Canaanite iconography lies behind the scene in the Garden between the reptile and naked Eve, "Mother of all life",[5] the "Great Mother Goddess of the Canaanites"[6] Qetesh.

 

[fallingblood]

Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Satan (Hebrew: הַשָּׂטָן ha-Satan), "the opposer",

Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as “the accuser,” or “the adversary.”

That does not deal with anything I said. Yes, ha-satan is translated to adversary. That isn't the Devil, that isn't Satan. It is adversary. It isn't a reference to anyone in particular, as we see a number of people being called ha-satan.

Now, adversary, and english word here, does not mean Devil, nor Satan. It doesn't refer to ha-satan. At least not when I'm using it. And I have never implied otherwise. Just because ha-satan can translate to adversary, that doesn't mean adversary instantly means ha-satan, and the idea that some have attached to such a notion.

So again, adversary does not equal devil. Adversary does not mean Satan. They do not equal each other.

been answered many times

That hardly was an answer. You gave a link of what a venomous snake can represent. That simply has nothing to do with Genesis. We are talking about a serpent. Serpents do not mean snake. Dragons are also serpents. More so, we know we aren't talking about a snake, as snakes don't have legs. The serpent in this story does. Finally, nothing is said about it being venomous. There is not a single suggestion of such.

So we aren't talking about a snake here. We are talking about something a little bit more vague, that being a serpent. Now, the idea of a snake may help us to a point, as this serpent is transformed, or it is implied it is transformed, into a snake. But to begin with, it isn't a snake, and it really isn't a venomous snake.

More so, the quote you posted doesn't really say anything. It lists what a venomous snake can mean, without actually going into any detail.

Maybe I will just make a thread on this subject, and go into depth on the subject. Because it really doesn't seem like I can get you to actually think about this story a little more deeper.

 

[outhouse]

You gave a link of what a venomous snake can represent. That simply has nothing to do with Genesis.

false

I posted this that talks directly about the genesis serpent

According to the Rabbinical tradition, the serpent represents sexual desire.

Thats hardley adversary or satan

Because it really doesn't seem like I can get you to actually think about this story a little more deeper.

Its a myth plain and simple. And the snake is just a made up feature taken from previous religions

 

[outhouse]

maybe you should read what I post

this comes directly from the serpent in the garden

The legged and speaking serpent of Genesis plays the role of trickster, a speaking animal which even shares knowledge with God which is hidden from man. As with other trickster-figures, the gift it brings is double-edged: Adam and Eve gain knowledge, but lose Eden. The choice of a venomous snake for this role seems to arise from Near Eastern traditions associating snakes with danger and death, magic and secret knowledge, rejuvenation, immortality, and sexuality. It is also possible that the association of the snake with the nude goddess in Canaanite iconography lies behind the scene in the Garden between the reptile and naked Eve, "Mother of all life",[5] the "Great Mother Goddess of the Canaanites"[6] Qetesh.