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How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Oh, so god is so weak he cant influence people to record his message accurately??????????????????????


thats all your saying there, and I dont buy it.

Hi Outhouse, GOD gave to all the power/freedom of choosing/believing. Disbelieving/Disobedience vs. Believing and Obeying was the test in that tree situation/senario. The whole Bible is GOD'S "influence" on the hearts and minds of mankind. People make the choice to believe or disbelieve. It will only be the "true believers and doers" of HIS Commandments/instructions which will eventually be the occupants of the New heavens and new earth.

The Holy Spirit gave his messages to holy, GOD fearing, obedient persons and they were recorded as such. There have been others who have tried to falsify(think to change) the Scriptures,----and some of those false teaching are believed by a majority of persons today. 2Thess.2:3-4, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." This was prophesied by/in Dan.7:25, "And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

It is a thing Not to buy into.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Hi Outhouse, GOD gave to all the power/freedom of choosing/believing. Disbelieving/Disobedience vs. Believing and Obeying was the test in that tree situation/senario. The whole Bible is GOD'S "influence" on the hearts and minds of mankind. People make the choice to believe or disbelieve. It will only be the "true believers and doers" of HIS Commandments/instructions which will eventually be the occupants of the New heavens and new earth.

The Holy Spirit gave his messages to holy, GOD fearing, obedient persons and they were recorded as such. There have been others who have tried to falsify(think to change) the Scriptures,----and some of those false teaching are believed by a majority of persons today. 2Thess.2:3-4, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." This was prophesied by/in Dan.7:25, "And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

It is a thing Not to buy into.

My only problem

is not that you believe in a god that makes you and your family better that I have a problem with, I love theism and the results.

Is that you want to try and rewrite history through a spiritual book written by man.



I wonder how you explain that ancient hebrews started as a culture around 1200 BC

Yet we have the Shasu tribe worshipping Yahweh hundreds of years before Judaism or its people existed.

El was worshipped by Mesopotamian's a thousand yesr before ancient hebrews existed.


Many of these people migrated to what would be Israel and for 600 years ancient hebrews worshipped El and Yahweh and Baal and Asherah as their gods. Baal and Asherah were short lived and turned into a cult status. El was however merged with Yahweh around 622 BC when hewbews went to monotheism.



However you want to place the garden of eden in there and the serprent is Ok by me, but that is the real history that took place.

Bud you need to realize the bible was not intended to be a history book and should not be used as such
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
My only problem

is not that you believe in a god that makes you and your family better that I have a problem with, I love theism and the results.

Is that you want to try and rewrite history through a spiritual book written by man.

Hi Outhouse, Like you, "theism" is the GOD/god of one's choice. One made all things one sees and one is happy to please that Creator; and the other was made in the figment of ones imagination and to please ones self.

I have no desire to "rewrite history"---I have a hard enough time living as history is unfolding around me daily. Also, The recording of history has been by mankind ever since the spoken/written word was learned/uttered. Therefore, history was "written by man" whether or not it was by a Believer in the True Creator GOD, OR by a man who made his own god.

I wonder how you explain that ancient hebrews started as a culture around 1200 BC

Yet we have the Shasu tribe worshipping Yahweh hundreds of years before Judaism or its people existed.

El was worshipped by Mesopotamian's a thousand yesr before ancient hebrews existed.

Around 1200 B.C. is Saul's and David's reign as kings---Then came Solomon. We have this record: 1Kings6:1, And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which [is] the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD.

Therefore, the people who were called out of Egypt(Israelites) circa 1540 B.C. Had Abraham as the beginning of that prople`. (He was Called out from among idol worshipers by the true Creator GOD.) To Moses, GOD said,(Ex.6:3-8), "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH ("The every lasting One"----The "I AM")was I not known to them. And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I [am] the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I [am] the LORD."

"the Shasu tribe "= "Nomadic" in the Egyptian language. That is what the decendants of Abraham were. They did not establish "cities" for the most part. After they entered into "the Promised land"/Levant with Joshua, they did build Cities and occupied the captured cities.
From the article in Wikipedia: "Copied later by either Seti I or Ramesses II at Amarah-West, the list mentions six groups of Shashu: the Shasu of S'rr, the Shasu of Lbn, the Shasu of Sm't, the Shasu of Wrbr, the Shasu of Yhw, and the Shasu of Pysps.[1][2]------------------------

Many of these people migrated to what would be Israel and for 600 years ancient hebrews worshipped El and Yahweh and Baal and Asherah as their gods. Baal and Asherah were short lived and turned into a cult status. El was however merged with Yahweh around 622 BC when hewbews went to monotheism.

See above. God had told Abraham concerning his seed/ decendants, (Gen.15:13-16], "And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. [/u]But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full.[/u]"

Yes, after they had possessed the land they alternately accepted and were punished for adhering to "other gods" of the surrounding nations. Look at Solomon, 1Kings11:4,5,7-8,"For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, [that] his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as [was] the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. ......Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.""

However you want to place the garden of eden in there and the serprent is Ok by me, but that is the real history that took place.

Bud you need to realize the bible was not intended to be a history book and should not be used as such

Yes, it is the real history of the Creation of all things and the fall of mankind by the subtlies of the serpent----Satan----a disobedient Angel who was cast out of Heaven.
Also, (1Cor.10:6, 11), "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted...Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. "
And Rom.15:4,"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Good Morning Sincerly

I have no desire to "rewrite history"---I have a hard enough time living as history is unfolding around me daily. Also, The recording of history has been by mankind ever since the spoken/written word was learned/uttered. Therefore, history was "written by man" whether or not it was by a Believer in the True Creator GOD, OR by a man who made his own god.


except for one problem.

many languages existed long before ancient hebrews existed.

Many religions existed before ancient hebrews existed.


The world was full of many races of people all over the planet, for 200,000 years before the people who wrote the bible existed.

these are facts and not up for debate.



Around 1200 B.C. is Saul's and David's reign as kings---Then came Solomon. We have this record: 1Kings6:1, And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which [is] the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD.


False again bud.


History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Israel and Judah were related Iron Age kingdoms of ancient Canaan. The earliest known reference to the name Israel in archaeological records is in the Merneptah stele, an Egyptian record of c. 1209 BCE



what this is saying is that in 1209 BC Egypt wiped out the nomads that would become ancient Israeli's or hebrews as you know them.

But the fact is, at this time, none of the people you mention existed as Israel wasnt even a place in 1209, they were a people.


Therefore, the people who were called out of Egypt(Israelites) circa 1540 B.C. Had Abraham as the beginning of that prople`. (He was Called out from among idol worshipers by the true Creator GOD.) To Moses, GOD said,(Ex.6:3-8),

Abraham and moses were creations in a book according to history.

there was never a enslaved race of hebrews in egypt ever, there is not a single shred of evidence for this at all.

Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.[84][85][86][87] William Dever agrees with the Canaanite origin of the Israelites but allows for the possibility of some immigrants from Egypt among the early hilltop settlers, leaving open the possibility of a Moses-like figure in Transjordan ca 1250-1200


OK here it says Moses cannot substanciated, and Canaan NOT egypt is the origins of ancient hebrews.



Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Historicity and origins
It is generally recognised by scholars that there is nothing in the Genesis stories that can be related to the history of Canaan of the early 2nd millennium: none of the kings mentioned is known, Abimelech could not have been a Philistine (they did not arrive until centuries later), Ur would not become known as "Ur of the Chaldeans" until the early 1st millennium, and Laban could not have been an Aramean, as the Arameans did not become an identifiable political entity until the 12th century.[18] Joseph Blenkinsopp, Emeritus Professor of Biblical Studies at the University of Notre Dame, notes that the past four or five decades have seen a growing consensus that the Genesis narrative of Abraham originated from literary circles of the 6th and 5th centuries BCE as a mirror of the situation facing the Jewish community under the Babylonian and early Persian empires.



"the Shasu tribe "= "Nomadic" in the Egyptian language. That is what the decendants of Abraham were.


There are no known ties to the Shasu and Israel at all.

I wish there was bud, it would explain alot.


I personally want to think there would be a tie just because of the worship of Yahweh had to start somewhere and handed down to Canannites before the semetic people of that culture migrated to Israel. But its just not there.


Yes, after they had possessed the land they alternately accepted and were punished for adhering to "other gods" of the surrounding nations.


here is he real history

Iron Age Yahwism
Further information: Yahweh (Canaanite deity) and El (god)
Current models among scholars see the emergence of Israelite monotheism as a gradual process which began with the normal beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[74]
The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like many Ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on the cult of the ancestors and the worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[75] The major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god in the early period.[76] By the early monarchy El and Yahweh had become unified and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[76] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[77] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah seems to have originated in Edom and Midian in southern Canaan, and may have been brought north to Israel by the Kenites and Midianites at an early stage.[78] With the emergence of monarchy at the beginning of Iron Age II the king promoted his own family god, Yahweh, as the god of the kingdom, but beyond the royal court religion continued to be both polytheistic and family-centered, as it was also for other societies in the Ancient Near East.[79]





Yes, it is the real history of the Creation of all things and the fall of mankind by the subtlies of the serpent----Satan---

Thats fine and all but it doesnt state satan was in the garden. Nothing does

And what you posted was written hundreds of years later.


Book of Genesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This leaves the question of when these works were created. Scholars in the first half of the 20th century came to the conclusion that the Yahwist was produced in the monarchic period, specifically at the court of Solomon, and the Priestly work in the middle of the 5th century BC (the author was even identified as Ezra), but more recent thinking is that the Yahwist was written either just before or during the Babylonian exile of the 6th century, and the Priestly final edition was made late in the Exilic period or soon after.



here we are trying show you that Genesis was written 600 years after the formation of Israel as a nation.

Here is a important link if you want to really learn how the first five books of the bible were composed.

The Legends of Genesis: V. Jahvist, Elohist, Jehovist, the Later Collections
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
And after all of this....
are we still debating that God and Man have never met (garden event).....
and a would be Adversary had no play of interference as God sought to enhance His relationship with Man?

More theology and less history please...and thank you.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
And after all of this....
are we still debating that God and Man have never met (garden event).....
and a would be Adversary had no play of interference as God sought to enhance His relationship with Man?

More theology and less history please...and thank you.

god and man never met, even in this legend they didnt meet.

there was no adversary there either.


and of course you have to NOT LOOK at real history, as you require faith to follow mythology you have never been able to refute with logic and reason.


.
Book of Genesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Scholars in the first half of the 20th century came to the conclusion that the Yahwist was produced in the monarchic period, specifically at the court of Solomon, and the Priestly work in the middle of the 5th century BC (the author was even identified as Ezra), but more recent thinking is that the Yahwist was written either just before or during the Babylonian exile of the 6th century,


here you are flat told it was created in the 5th and 6th century BC, NOT 6000 years ago.


The two powerful groups making up the community—the priestly families who controlled the Temple and who traced their foundation-myth to Moses and the wilderness wanderings, and the major landowning families who made up the "elders" and who traced their own origins to Abraham, who had "given" them the land—were in conflict over many issues, and each had its own "history of origins", but the Persian promise of greatly increased local autonomy for all provided a powerful incentive to cooperate in producing a single text

this tells you WHY it was created.





in all, LESS MYTH, and more reality please :facepalm:
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
god and man never met, even in this legend they didnt meet.

there was no adversary there either.


and of course you have to NOT LOOK at real history, as you require faith to follow mythology you have never been able to refute with logic and reason.


.
Book of Genesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Scholars in the first half of the 20th century came to the conclusion that the Yahwist was produced in the monarchic period, specifically at the court of Solomon, and the Priestly work in the middle of the 5th century BC (the author was even identified as Ezra), but more recent thinking is that the Yahwist was written either just before or during the Babylonian exile of the 6th century,


here you are flat told it was created in the 5th and 6th century BC, NOT 6000 years ago.


The two powerful groups making up the community—the priestly families who controlled the Temple and who traced their foundation-myth to Moses and the wilderness wanderings, and the major landowning families who made up the "elders" and who traced their own origins to Abraham, who had "given" them the land—were in conflict over many issues, and each had its own "history of origins", but the Persian promise of greatly increased local autonomy for all provided a powerful incentive to cooperate in producing a single text

this tells you WHY it was created.





in all, LESS MYTH, and more reality please :facepalm:

Well gee... a theological discussion with an non-believer...
who would insist on historical text only?

You can't answer the title question in that way.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Well gee... a theological discussion with an non-believer...
who would insist on historical text only?

You can't answer the title question in that way.

I already have, it is you that cannot refute the reality of the situation
 

outhouse

Atheistically
So...somehow...you still need 'proof' that God and Man have met?

You know what I will say...don't you?


I dont need proof to know ancient hebrews wrote about what they thought was there god concept.

No god has ever met a man, so there will never be proof.


Again, the book of genesis was written 600-700 years after hebrews had formed their own nation. There is no debate about this. Its a fact.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Good Morning Sincerly
except for one problem.
many languages existed long before ancient hebrews existed.
Many religions existed before ancient hebrews existed.

The world was full of many races of people all over the planet, for 200,000 years before the people who wrote the bible existed.
these are facts and not up for debate.

False again bud.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Outhouse, you use Wikipedea as if it were unequivically TRUTH.
Notice this disclaimer by that organization. I have placed in red that which you should understand when reading that which is written therein.
WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY​
Wikipedia is an online open-content collaborative encyclopedia, that is, a voluntary association of individuals and groups working to develop a common resource of human knowledge. The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.
That is not to say that you will not find valuable and accurate information in Wikipedia; much of the time you will. However, Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here. The content of any given article may recently have been changed, vandalized or altered by someone whose opinion does not correspond with the state of knowledge in the relevant fields. Note that most other encyclopedias and reference works also have similar disclaimers.
No formal peer review

We are working on ways to select and highlight reliable versions of articles. Our active community of editors uses tools such as the Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages feeds to monitor new and changing content. However, Wikipedia is not uniformly peer reviewed; while readers may correct errors or engage in casual peer review, they have no legal duty to do so and thus all information read here is without any implied warranty of fitness for any purpose or use whatsoever. Even articles that have been vetted by informal peer review or featured article processes may later have been edited inappropriately, just before you view them.
None of the contributors, sponsors, administrators, or anyone else connected with Wikipedia in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages.-----------------------

Also, """Our active community of editors""" are still currently "debating"-----"Myth". The "guide-lines" are man-made, therefore, as one says today---needs to be "politically correct" rather than TRUTH.

Therefore, Moses wrote the Things GOD revealed to him. One of those things written on stone tablets was "Thou shalt not bear false witness"/lie. In relation to Genesis, the fall of mankind was through a subtle LIE. Falsifying that which GOD had said.

You are balking at the serpent "talking", but have no fear concerning those "Editors" of Wikipedia.

Read this account """Talk:Joseph (son of Jacob)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia""". Here we see, Not a "kingdom", but seventy persons go down to Egypt at the invitation of one pharaoh, but are made slaves by one who reigned after that one and "knew not Joseph". That account was from about 1729 BC to 1707 BC. (Ex. 1:8)

The Israelites had no "kingdom", but were a "Theocracy" until they were established in the "Promised Land"/Canaan and desired a "King" as the nations around them had. Saul was the First King followed by David(the Nation had been split into Judah and Israel by Saul's refusal to accept GOD'S Choice in David as King). It was united again with David and Solomon.

Israel and Judah were related Iron Age kingdoms of ancient Canaan. The earliest known reference to the name Israel in archaeological records is in the Merneptah stele, an Egyptian record of c. 1209 BCE

what this is saying is that in 1209 BC Egypt wiped out the nomads that would become ancient Israeli's or hebrews as you know them.


But the fact is, at this time, none of the people you mention existed as Israel wasnt even a place in 1209, they were a people.

That referrence has this: """"Israel has been wiped out...its seed is no more."""" in one article and this explanation in another article of "Wikipedia".

"""The line mentioning Israel is grouped together with three other defeated states in Canaan (Gezer, Yanoam and Ashkelon) in a single stanza, beside multiple stanzas regarding his defeat of the Libyans. The line referring to Merneptah's Canaanite campaign reads:
Canaan is captive with all woe. Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized, Yanoam made nonexistent; Israel is wasted, bare of seed.[6]
The phrase "wasted, bare of seed" is formulaic, and often used of defeated nations. It implies that the store of grain of the nation in question has been destroyed, which would result in a famine the following year, incapacitating them as a military threat to Egypt."""
"Israel is laid waste; its seed is no more."

Wikipedia's Joseph article states he was sold into slavery---first to an individual.

Abraham and moses were creations in a book according to history.

They were written in the scriptures/Bible along with those others which Wikipedia sites as real.
There is references to Moses in other of the prophets writings.

I personally want to think there would be a tie just because of the worship of Yahweh had to start somewhere and handed down to Canannites before the semetic people of that culture migrated to Israel. But its just not there.

What you are saying is you refuse to take Biblical records---which are more accuate than looking for a source which really has no interest in the history of the people of the Creator GOD.
(Like the Creation of the Earth and all things therein by GOD vs. Evolution---"start somewhere").

here is the real history

YES, The Creator GOD of all things began with the Genesis account. then gave the history to Moses who also, received the Decalogue from GOD and GOD reiterated that HE made all things in seven days. Therefore, worthy of worship.

All of mankind was scattered into all the earth from/at the tower of Babel.-----Believing and refusing to believe.

Thats fine and all but it doesnt state satan was in the garden. Nothing does

And what you posted was written hundreds of years later.

Other scriptures reveals those details. And wikipedia was written thousands of years later.

here we are trying show you that Genesis was written 600 years after the formation of Israel as a nation.

False! Moses wasn't alive 600 years after he spoke with GOD upon Sinai.

Your link is just another site with erroneous material. The Bible is the correct source of Truth.
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
I was reading Gen 3 and I ended with more questions than answers.
1. Did God put Satan in the garden?
2. Didn't God know what would happen?
3 Did you notice that Satan always gives a piece of truth & a lie

There are many who say.
There was no serpent. There was no apple.

God created Adam and Eve. He then gave them free will. He told them what not to do and left the choice to them.
They had sex 'the apple'.

The devil-lucifer-snake was an angel Iblis who thought he was greater than God.

The challenge was then to see who the 'creation' would obey. That was the free will part of it.
They obeyed evil and went against God so they were banished. If they had followed God then man would have been perfect creation.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I dont need proof to know ancient hebrews wrote about what they thought was there god concept.

No god has ever met a man, so there will never be proof.


Again, the book of genesis was written 600-700 years after hebrews had formed their own nation. There is no debate about this. Its a fact.

So one moment you need no 'proof'....
and then you have it?

And directly in between 'no proof of God'.

And proof of God is not required for faith.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
There are many who say.
There was no serpent. There was no apple.

Hi PTH, welcome to the fray/battle. People do say a lot of things especially when it comes to Religion. There was no identifying of the "fruit" as being an apple. Howerver, People still desire to follow the inclinations of their minds---to obey or disobey that which is/was specifically commanded by the Creator GOD.

God created Adam and Eve. He then gave them free will. He told them what not to do and left the choice to them.
They had sex 'the apple'.

PTH, The Bible, Holy Scriptures, acknowledge that When Adam and Eve were created {Eve was taken from Man} GOD had said, "Be fruitful and multiple, and replenish the earth,"--therefore, Sex wasn't forbidden nor obtained from the tree.

The devil-lucifer-snake was an angel Iblis who thought he was greater than God.

The Bible( and the Quran{Iblis} do identify Satan as an angel and the serpent which was in the Garden and adversarily did subtlely(through lies) seduce Eve to Eat of the Fruit from that forbidden tree.

The challenge was then to see who the 'creation' would obey. That was the free will part of it.
They obeyed evil and went against God so they were banished. If they had followed God then man would have been perfect creation.

That Challenge was initially between GOD and SATAN----Satan had disobeyed in heaven with the same "freedom of choice"--- and was "banished/casted out" of heaven. That "Controversy is still in progress" even though Satan was defeated at Calvary. The Evil ways has to run its course---the Disobedient Angels are awaiting the "day of Judgment which" will include mankind's disobedience as well.

Had Adam and Eve remained obedient there would have been no SIN and NO NEED for the "Lamb to be slain from the foundation of the world".(for Atoment).
(Mankind had been made and declared "GOOD" from the start/day of creation.)
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
I dont need proof to know ancient hebrews wrote about what they thought was there god concept.

No god has ever met a man, so there will never be proof.

Again, the book of genesis was written 600-700 years after hebrews had formed their own nation. There is no debate about this. Its a fact.

Hi Outhouse, GOD not only "met with mankind", but GOD made and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. And then walked in the cool of the evening with him.

GOD "met with" and spoke to Moses at the "burning bush: that was not "consumned".

So, all other peoples could read and write, but Moses who had been a member of Pharaoh's Daughter's household couldn't learn the art??

GOD "met with and spoke to All Israelites and the "mixed multitude" who came out of Egypt". That with an impressive array of thunderings and lightenings and Mt. shaking and the VOICE OF GOD speaking to them.
NOT JUST THOUGHT, but it was written for them and when read in their presence they acknowledged that "all the Lord said, we will do".

Wikipedia( and other sites) is today's "serpent" spreading the "Ye shall be like gods", "Ye shall not surely die". The---"there is no GOD"; "Its all a myth".
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Hi Outhouse, GOD not only "met with mankind", but GOD made and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. And then walked in the cool of the evening with him.

GOD "met with" and spoke to Moses at the "burning bush: that was not "consumned".

So, all other peoples could read and write, but Moses who had been a member of Pharaoh's Daughter's household couldn't learn the art??

GOD "met with and spoke to All Israelites and the "mixed multitude" who came out of Egypt". That with an impressive array of thunderings and lightenings and Mt. shaking and the VOICE OF GOD speaking to them.
NOT JUST THOUGHT, but it was written for them and when read in their presence they acknowledged that "all the Lord said, we will do".

Wikipedia( and other sites) is today's "serpent" spreading the "Ye shall be like gods", "Ye shall not surely die". The---"there is no GOD"; "Its all a myth".



this is where christian theology fails severly, and exactly why I have a problem with it.

Your a nice enough guy, your bright and have a good head on your shoulder.




But when you replace real knowledge and history, with ancient mythology, it really bothers me to see good peoples minds being diverted from accepting knowledge.

Its why creation is outlawed in public schools, while evolution is taught in EVERY major university around the world as higher education.



If you want to have a real conversation, you need to stop the YEC nonsense
 

outhouse

Atheistically
So one moment you need no 'proof'....
and then you have it?

And directly in between 'no proof of God'.

And proof of God is not required for faith.


dont dodge the fact genesis was written 600 years after ancient hebrews were a culture.


explain how genesis came to be, and when, if you want to have a adult conversation
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
dont dodge the fact genesis was written 600 years after ancient hebrews were a culture.


explain how genesis came to be, and when, if you want to have a adult conversation

Would like to hear?....'an oral tradition until someone learned to write'.

That would make it 'really intellectual'...would it not?

Or perhaps you would participate in this theological discussion, minus all the 'nay saying'?
 
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