How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[Thief]

ITS ALL FALSE

and as of yet there is nothing to indicate and deity of any kind created anything let alone man.

one doesnt have faith in history and facts, and logic and reality!

in fact its safe to say one is trolling a literal translation of allegory

Your shallow dismissal of non-belief has been noted.(repeatedly)

If you would like to step up...put down your history book.
This is theological....not historical.

Who did you say was trolling?

 

[outhouse]

Your shallow dismissal of non-belief has been noted.(repeatedly)

If you would like to step up...put down your history book.
This is theological....not historical.

Who did you say was trolling?

those people who choose to take someone else religion and try to define it in a literal way it was never ment to be read in.



yes I understand you quite well! put the knowledge down! and become a theist that does not have to follow reason and logic.


your taking beautiful allegory and ruining it. :yes:

 

[Thief]

those people who choose to take someone else religion and try to define it in a literal way it was never ment to be read in.



yes I understand you quite well! put the knowledge down! and become a theist that does not have to follow reason and logic.


your taking beautiful allegory and ruining it. :yes:

I think you've seen this...I quote myself.....

Strong faith comes of meditation.... careful thought.
You don't see the evidence......'SEE' the 'evidence'

Blessed are those who believe but have not seen....

That's because such belief comes of focused thought.
It does not need repeated support when times get rough.

People that believe because they 'saw' something...a miracle, perhaps...
fade away as such things are rarely repeated.
(end quote)

I use logic and reason when I post.
You lean upon history recitals.

 

[outhouse]

I think you've seen this...I quote myself.....

Strong faith comes of meditation.... careful thought.
You don't see the evidence......'SEE' the 'evidence'

Blessed are those who believe but have not seen....

That's because such belief comes of focused thought.
It does not need repeated support when times get rough.

People that believe because they 'saw' something...a miracle, perhaps...
fade away as such things are rarely repeated.
(end quote)

I use logic and reason when I post.
You lean upon history recitals.

and excatly why creation is outlwed from public school's, your making stuff up and claiming validity and credibility where there is none.


your taking this whole thread out of context and off topic. satan was never written in the garden story and your use of imagination is all you have to tie him to this mythical event.

 

[Thief]

and excatly why creation is outlwed from public school's, your making stuff up and claiming validity and credibility where there is none.

No I'm not.

your taking this whole thread out of context and off topic. satan was never written in the garden story and your use of imagination is all you have to tie him to this mythical event.

When you lean to history rather than faith....YOU are the source of digression.

 

[outhouse]

When you lean to history rather than faith....YOU are the source of digression.

yes I understand your refusal of knowledge

 

[Oryonder]

70 persons went into Egypt and 430 years late came out. Try doubling that original 70 every year or 15 years for the 430 years the Israelites were in Egypt.

This is not a Math problem..human population does not work that way. Sustaining a population of 1 Million is complex in todays world never mind wandering through the desert around 1400 BC.

There is no evidence to justify such a claim .. the answer is that we have absolutely no clue how many people this Moses fellow led out of Egypt.

How long did they (those doubters of GOD) live to enjoy their "another god"???

The people led by Moses obviously did not think much of the God of Moses .. including his own brother.

That was the same GOD who spoke to them from Sinai. And Abraham knew GOD as
'elohiym. GOD told MOSES Ex.6:3, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God(EL) Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH(Lord) was I not known to them."

As I told you befor .. Abraham's God was "El". God never gave the name "Yahweh" to Abraham, Issac or Jacob and the passage you are quoting even says this.

Editors writing the text after the fact are inserting the name Yawheh as the God who is speaking.

The Sumerians were descendants of those eight who got off the ARK and were dispersed from the tower of Babel.------ They received their "story" from that ADAM who the Creator GOD(GOD the Father; GOD the SON; and the Holy Spirit) made from the dust of the ground.

The problem here is that the folks who got of the Ark did so 2400-2200BC.

Unfortunately for this theory there are numerous cultures and races that are continuous through this time period. Ancient history is my passion and I have studied it for years, and also have taken higher level university courses on Earliest civilizations as well as ancient Greek history.

You have to keep in mind that Noah was still alive when Abraham was born and the time of Abraham is described well enough - the different peoples that were around at this time- that we can slot him into a certain time period.

This "Creation" link gives does a nice job of giving some of the cultures that were in existence during the time of Abraham (dispite making some insane claims in relation to dating methods and Egyptian chronology which we can discuss later and the slotting of the Chalcolithic, neolithic and, mesolithic as occurring from 2200 to 1600). They slot him into the time period 1950-1750. The Times of Abraham

In 2200 BC (when the ARK made ground if you take 1800 as the date of Abraham) we have cultures in Africa, South America, China, Sumeria, Egypt, Europe, India .. and so on.

We can discuss ancient history further if you like. (how we know certain things and so forth)

How "doublings" did you complete before you reached 1,000,000??
The "father of lies" deals in "big humor"/the twisting of truth/facts

As I said earlier .. this is not a Math problem. For example the population of the Early Dynastic period of Egypt is estimated at 2 Million .. in the Old Kingdom which is after the Early Dynastic period the population has actually decreased to around 1.5 Million.

It takes some serious infrastructure and specialization to maintain a population this large.

 

[outhouse]

the answer is that we have absolutely no clue how many people this Moses fellow led out of Egypt.

we do know, its zero, as written. its mythology according to all modern scholarships.


There may be a historical core of someone leading a small group from egypt, but the story of moses is so far removed from the actual event, the story has zero historicity.

 

[outhouse]

Unfortunately for this theory there are numerous cultures and races that are continuous through this time period. Ancient history is my passion and I have studied it for years, and also have taken higher level university courses on Earliest civilizations as well as ancient Greek history.

then you would know the river flood of the Euphrates in 2900 BC was the origin of all mythology relating to noahs mythology

noahs story abnd abarahams legends both have ZERO historicity and we know for a fact they were created in literature influeneced from mesopotamian origins.

 

[Thief]

we do know, its zero, as written. its mythology according to all modern scholarships.


There may be a historical core of someone leading a small group from egypt, but the story of moses is so far removed from the actual event, the story has zero historicity.

See?...that really settled the topic...didn't it?

Now we know, God doesn't exist...Moses didn't exist...
God and Man have never met....and we have you extensive history recital to thank.

yeah, right.

 

[sincerly]

ITS ALL FALSE

and as of yet there is nothing to indicate and deity of any kind created anything let alone man.

one doesnt have faith in history and facts, and logic and reality!

in fact its safe to say one is trolling a literal translation of allegory

Outhouse, the "history" of theoretical ideas are NOT FACT, and the "logic" motivating it takes more "FAITH" to result in the "Reality" than that which the Creator GOD of the Bible "Spoke and it stood fast".
The miracles seen and recorded over 40 years attest to the Facts of the LORD GOD ALmighty. Nothing has been seen nor produced as evidence of evolution.

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse, the "history" of theoretical ideas are NOT FACT, and the "logic" motivating it takes more "FAITH" to result in the "Reality" than that which the Creator GOD of the Bible "Spoke and it stood fast".
The miracles seen and recorded over 40 years attest to the Facts of the LORD GOD ALmighty. Nothing has been seen nor produced as evidence of evolution.

a little early for comedy

evolution is fact as gravity, but off topic.


religion is based in fact from mythology, this is something that escapes you.


look at the definition of mythology and ask youself how this doesnt apply to my beliefs.


the snake in the tree is mythology plain and simple, and this mythology implies nothing of satan

 

[outhouse]

and if god is almighty, why is he invisible and always hiding??

 

[sincerly]

This is not a Math problem..human population does not work that way. Sustaining a population of 1 Million is complex in todays world never mind wandering through the desert around 1400 BC.

Oryonder, you brought up the 3000 persons who "didn't think much of Moses's GOD".
In that relationship to the total population awaiting at the foot of Sinai--it was a few.
As far as sustaining that number, are you doubting GOD'S ability to send the "Manna" for 40 + years???
Also, your next to last statement of this post:"""
As I said earlier .. this is not a Math problem. For example the population of the Early Dynastic period of Egypt is estimated at 2 Million .. in the Old Kingdom which is after the Early Dynastic period the population has actually decreased to around 1.5 Million."""

It is ok to estimate the Egyptians----But, not the Israelites---which included "a mixed multitude"???
Also, 80 years after the decree to kill all the male Israelite babies?? How long did the Egyptians enforce that decree?

That wanderings in the desert was approx.1500-1400 BC.

As I told you before .. Abraham's God was "El". God never gave the name "Yahweh" to Abraham, Issac or Jacob and the passage you are quoting even says this.

Editors writing the text after the fact are inserting the name Yawheh as the God who is speaking.

Oryonder, Yes, that passage, also, was told to Moses by GOD who identified HIMSELF as Jehovah/"Yahweh"/ LORD. "EL"is the same GOD as "Yahweh". Moses was the Writer of Ex.6:3

The problem here is that the folks who got of the Ark did so 2400-2200BC.

Unfortunately for this theory there are numerous cultures and races that are continuous through this time period. Ancient history is my passion and I have studied it for years, and also have taken higher level university courses on Earliest civilizations as well as ancient Greek history.

SO, they debarked the Ark in 2400 B.C. In 2300 B.C., they were scattered into all the world. That scattering accounts for your:"""there are numerous cultures and races that are continuous through this time period. """

You have to keep in mind that Noah was still alive when Abraham was born and the time of Abraham is described well enough - the different peoples that were around at this time- that we can slot him into a certain time period.

Shem outlived Abraham by approx. 45 years. However, from the "Tower of Babel" to the birth of Abraham was 195 years. That was plenty of time for those different peoples/cultures to establish themselves.-----and with numerous populations.

This "Creation" link gives does a nice job of giving some of the cultures that were in existence during the time of Abraham (dispite making some insane claims in relation to dating methods and Egyptian chronology which we can discuss later and the slotting of the Chalcolithic, neolithic and, mesolithic as occurring from 2200 to 1600). They slot him into the time period 1950-1750. The Times of Abraham

My accounting for the birth of Abraham is approx.2050 B.C.----Close to their "slotting".

ALL you have been claiming Re: the population shift is seen and described by the Biblical account.
The myth comes from those who wish to discredit the BIBLE and GOD for the "evil imaginations" which had their origins even prior to those eight persons entering the Ark.
Satan's lies are still being believed instead of the Creator GOD'S Truths.

 

[sincerly]

a little early for comedy

evolution is fact as gravity, but off topic.

God has been amused with the reasoning of disobedient humans for some time.
Ps.2:1-4, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying], Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision."

religion is based in fact from mythology, this is something that escapes you.

The fables are a product of those who disbelieve the facts of the Creator GOD and who dismiss HIS Truths as myths.

look at the definition of mythology and ask youself how this doesnt apply to my beliefs.

Since it your beliefs are contrived from assumptions/theories----it DOES APPLY.

the snake in the tree is mythology plain and simple, and this mythology implies nothing of satan

However, the identity of that serpent is identified in the scope of the Bible---as Satan.

 

[Oryonder]

As far as sustaining that number, are you doubting GOD'S ability to send the "Manna" for 40 + years???
Also, your next to last statement of this post:"""
As I said earlier .. this is not a Math problem. For example the population of the Early Dynastic period of Egypt is estimated at 2 Million .. in the Old Kingdom which is after the Early Dynastic period the population has actually decreased to around 1.5 Million."""

First off half the population of Egypt did not up and leave.
Second .. if this would have happened the Egyptians would have recorded it.
Third.. we have no clue how many left .. you are making up rediculous numbers out of thin air.

Of course God did not send Manna for 40 years. If God was to use "magic" then there is no reason to part the Red Sea and so forth .. he could have just wiggled is index finger.

Fourth .. "IF" God had been using magic to do all these things there is no way on hells green earth that "all" the people would have been looking for another God after Moses dissappears for a month. .. Especially not his Brother Aaron.

Use the brain that God gave you ?

Fifth.. upon Moses return there would have been no people that would have rebelled against him .. simply for fear of God's wrath. l

This makes zero sense.

It is ok to estimate the Egyptians----But, not the Israelites---which included "a mixed multitude

A mixed multitude that was your made up number of 1 Million .. where did you get this from anyway ?

BTW .. if you actually use the rule of doubling .. and you take every generation at 30 years. In 400 years that is 13 doublings. Starting with a population of 10,000 you would have roughly 100 million people.

Oryonder, Yes, that passage, also, was told to Moses by GOD who identified HIMSELF as Jehovah/"Yahweh"/ LORD. "EL"is the same GOD as "Yahweh". Moses was the Writer of Ex.6:3

Then it was Moses who associated Yahweh with El .. Abraham and son's did not know this.

Since we do not have any copies of the Bible written in Egyptian .. the copies that were made were written by someone else since Moses was raised egyptian. The people that wrote/Edited the Bible lived at the time of Persia. They were the ones that put the name Yahweh in the Bible.

SO, they debarked the Ark in 2400 B.C. In 2300 B.C., they were scattered into all the world. That scattering accounts for your:"""there are numerous cultures and races that are continuous through this time period. """

What is this ? how can 8 people scatter throughout the world and become Chinese, Black and South American in 100 years ?

How did they get to South America ? .. This is Absurd.

In 2400-2300 BC Sargon of Akkad (where Akkadian writing comes from which was the language of commerce for 2000 years until 500 BC) conquered the city states of Sumeria to become the worlds first empire.

These cities had been there for not just centuries, but millenia prior to this happening.

There was no sudden flood that ended all this .. same in Egypt, China, India and so on.

Shem outlived Abraham by approx. 45 years. However, from the "Tower of Babel" to the birth of Abraham was 195 years. That was plenty of time for those different peoples/cultures to establish themselves.-----and with numerous populations.

These peoples all existed way before "The tower of Babel"

My accounting for the birth of Abraham is approx.2050 B.C.----Close to their "slotting".

According to the "Creationist" link I gave you Abraham was as early as 1950 and as late as 1750 but it does not really matter .. whether the flood is dated at 2400 or the rediculously early 2200 .. there are continuous civilizations proving that the Golbal flood did not happen.

If you read the story of Sargon .. he was put in a basket by his mother .. same as the Moses story.

What is really bizzare is that all these cultures had all these different Gods and had ancestor worship and had different creation stories.

ahhhhemm .. Pay attention .. If "THE FATHER(S) of all humanity are still alive .. obviously everyone on the planet would still remember that Noah and Sons were the fathers of all humanity.

There is not one mention of this in any of the creation stories of any of these cultures. Further .. After the Ark lands the Bible does not mention Noah once . or any of his sons.

This does not even pass the Giggle test nevermind serious intellectual scrutiny.

Satan's lies are still being believed instead of the Creator GOD'S Truths

There are definately some lies/fables being told .. Look no further than the Global flood story and the story of Moses.

How did the Spectacled bear make it from the Ark to South America and the Kangaroo back to Australia ?

The only answer of course is "Magic" .. If God was using Magic there was no need for a Flood .. he could have just wiggled his middle finger and all the bad people would have disappeared.

 

[Thief]

and if god is almighty, why is he invisible and always hiding??

He's right behind you as you type your next post.
You can't see Him because He is spirit...you're not.

You get to see the 'almighty' part....later on.

 

[outhouse]

He's right behind you as you type your next post.
You can't see Him because He is spirit...you're not.

You get to see the 'almighty' part....later on.

that's only your unfounded opinion based on imagination and mythology

 

[Thief]

that's only your unfounded opinion based on imagination and mythology

I believe in God for good reason.
That you disagree...doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[Oryonder]

He's right behind you as you type your next post.
You can't see Him because He is spirit...you're not.

You get to see the 'almighty' part....later on.

Claiming to know what God is up to moment to moment is a bit of a stretch.

I believe in God for good reason.
That you disagree...doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I could claim the moon is made of Green Cheese "for good reason"
That you disagree doesn't mean I am wrong ?!