How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[Oryonder]

.
And Jesus was not the author of the golden rule.
It was carved in stone at least a thousand years before Him.

I am well aware that Jesus was not the creator of the Golden rule (confucious for sure and I believe and Buddha as well)

Prehaps God inspired more folks than just Jesus along the way trying to get the message across to silly humans.

 

[Oryonder]

Poor comparisons.

Quit throwing out accusations with no justification. Save it for "romper room".

 

[Thief]

I am well aware that Jesus was not the creator of the Golden rule (confucious for sure and I believe and Buddha as well)

Prehaps God inspired more folks than just Jesus along the way trying to get the message across to silly humans.

Shall we now go back to the garden and see if it works there too?

 

[Oryonder]

Shall we now go back to the garden and see if it works there too?

Garden ? .. you mean that lovely tulip patch in your mind .. where life is beautiful all the time. The place you retire to every time you come across ideas that conflict with your own ?

 

[Thief]

Garden ? .. you mean that lovely tulip patch in your mind .. where life is beautiful all the time. The place you retire to every time you come across ideas that conflict with your own ?

Silly boy.

If Satan was in the garden, as God was attempting a serious upgrade upon Man....what ever was he doing there?

Why do you suppose, the devil would seek to interfere in God's handiwork?

 

[Oryonder]

Silly boy.

If Satan was in the garden, as God was attempting a serious upgrade upon Man....what ever was he doing there?

Why do you suppose, the devil would seek to interfere in God's handiwork?

Silly girl .. Do you think that God did not realize that Sataniel was in the Garden ?

 

[Thief]

Silly girl .. Do you think that God did not realize that Sataniel was in the Garden ?

I happen to be an old man of 57.....anyway...

I strongly suspect that God didn't care.
The choice to know was given to Man.
It was Man that chose to know.

The devil only fooled himself thinking the acquisition of knowledge would undo God's handiwork.

God didn't mislead.
Partake and then you die.
That would be true, whether the devil had spoke or not.

It was the devil that had offered the notion we would not die.
That was a lie.
The acquisition of knowledge does not ward off death.

I think the original intent has faded over the centuries.
The story now delivers God's word as a warning as if to prevent the acquisition of knowledge.

But it was never God's intention that we should be ignorant.
And it was never intended that Man would live forever in flesh.
And that we work the earth to live as long as we do...is natural.

 

[sincerly]

Actually it was Jesus who said "love thy neighbor as thyself"

God also said go out and kill women and children.

Either God contradicts himself or those who claim the Bible speaks for God are wrong.

Lev.19:18, "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD."

However, Jesus is GOD the SON. and 1Cor.10:4, has this information: "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

The penalty for Disobedience is death.---Men, women or children. That was issued and understood from the Creation. Since one chooses to disobey, its called suicide. GOD honors one's choice.

 

[Oryonder]

I happen to be an old man of 57.....anyway...

Who knew !?

I am going to repost my question and look for some semblence of an answer in your response.

My question:

Do you think that God did not realize that Sataniel was in the Garden ?

I strongly suspect that God didn't care.
The choice to know was given to Man.
It was Man that chose to know.

How on earth would you know whether or not God did not care ?

It is interesting that you think God did not care about the humans.

Obviously if God knew that Sataniel was in the Garden he would know that the humans would have no chance as the had no knowledge of good or evil.

According to the story God did care because when Sataniel won the humans over God was upset.

The devil only fooled himself thinking the acquisition of knowledge would undo God's handiwork.

Sataniel did undo God's handiwork. Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil.

God didn't mislead.

No one claimed he did.

It was the devil that had offered the notion we would not die.
That was a lie.
The acquisition of knowledge does not ward off death

The humans, having no knowledge of evil would be innocent and trusting and have no reason to mistrust Sataniel.

Surely God would be able to predict the outcome of the events of the Garden before they happened.

The story now delivers God's word as a warning as if to prevent the acquisition of knowledge.

The OT and Jesus tells us to seek knowledge.

But it was never God's intention that we should be ignorant.

Probably the point of giving us brains.

I find your explanation "God does not care" interesting.

Perhaps God does not care ! Humans were created as some kind of experiment and God has moved on to other things, leaving us to our own devices.

 

[Oryonder]

Lev.19:18, "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD."

However, Jesus is GOD the SON. and 1Cor.10:4, has this information: "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

The penalty for Disobedience is death.---Men, women or children. That was issued and understood from the Creation. Since one chooses to disobey, its called suicide. GOD honors one's choice.

Not according to Jesus but this does not change the fact that God contradicts his own command by having the Israelites kill innocent women and children.

These people did not even have God's commands to disobey.

Aaron .. Moses own brother disobeyed .. why was he not killed ?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I am well aware that Jesus was not the creator of the Golden rule (confucious for sure and I believe and Buddha as well)

Prehaps God inspired more folks than just Jesus along the way trying to get the message across to silly humans.

Perhaps Buddha inspired Jesus.

Where do you think he traveled in those 30 missing years?

 

[Thief]

Who knew !?

I am going to repost my question and look for some semblence of an answer in your response.

My question:




How on earth would you know whether or not God did not care ?

It is interesting that you think God did not care about the humans.

Obviously if God knew that Sataniel was in the Garden he would know that the humans would have no chance as the had no knowledge of good or evil.

According to the story God did care because when Sataniel won the humans over God was upset.



Sataniel did undo God's handiwork. Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil.



No one claimed he did.



The humans, having no knowledge of evil would be innocent and trusting and have no reason to mistrust Sataniel.

Surely God would be able to predict the outcome of the events of the Garden before they happened.



The OT and Jesus tells us to seek knowledge.



Probably the point of giving us brains.

I find your explanation "God does not care" interesting.

Perhaps God does not care ! Humans were created as some kind of experiment and God has moved on to other things, leaving us to our own devices.

Not wanting to encourage digression.....have you read the book of Job?

Check my topics...there's a lengthy discussion about it.

 

[waitasec]

Aaron .. Moses own brother disobeyed .. why was he not killed ?

apparently, connections with the right people can take you places...

 

[Thief]

apparently, connections with the right people can take you places...

And that would include moving on into the next life.
Or do you prefer to say you will be left behind?

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by Oryonder
Actually it was Jesus who said "love thy neighbor as thyself"

God also said go out and kill women and children.

Either God contradicts himself or those who claim the Bible speaks for God are wrong.

Lev.19:18, "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD."

However, Jesus is GOD the SON. and 1Cor.10:4, has this information: "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

The penalty for Disobedience is death.---Men, women or children.

Not according to Jesus but this does not change the fact that God contradicts his own command by having the Israelites kill innocent women and children.

These people did not even have God's commands to disobey.

Aaron .. Moses own brother disobeyed .. why was he not killed ?

Oryonder, were you quoting Jesus referring to the two great Commandments---which HE was quoting from Deut.6:5 and Lev.19:18????
Since all things were made by Jesus(John1:1-3), Jesus may have been the "I AM" (or at least with the Father) at Sinai.

At the time of Abraham(more than 430 years before the Exodus) the king Abemelech knew Adultery was forbidden by the GOD of Abraham---who was the same GOD of Joseph. Idol worship was not allowed by the Same Creator GOD---Neither was stealing or lying. ALL principles of those "thou shall nots" were seen and exhibited in the Garden of Eden.
You may claim that "they didn't know", but Paul isn't that liberal and he said he was taught by Jesus Christ. (Rom.1:17-20) "They are without excuse".

"Innocent"---by what standard?? NOT GOD's. God does read the heart and mind(You and I can't.) Therefore, (Ex.33:19; Rom.9:15), "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy".

Note well, Rom.9:20-22, "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
GOD had a work for Aaron to do(which he did.)
GOD is long-suffering toward all Sinners. GOD will not force one's will, but awaits Repentance or arrogance to be the dominate choice---which will receive the right "reward".

 

[waitasec]

And that would include moving on into the next life.
Or do you prefer to say you will be left behind?

are your projecting?

feeling as if one is "left behind" is a state of mind.

once i'm dead, the mind ceases to function...there is no state of mind.

 

[Oryonder]

Perhaps Buddha inspired Jesus.

Where do you think he traveled in those 30 missing years?

Egypt, the near east, and India would be my guess.

 

[Oryonder]

Originally Posted by Oryonder
Actually it was Jesus who said "love thy neighbor as thyself"

God also said go out and kill women and children.

Either God contradicts himself or those who claim the Bible speaks for God are wrong.






Oryonder, were you quoting Jesus referring to the two great Commandments---which HE was quoting from Deut.6:5 and Lev.19:18????
Since all things were made by Jesus(John1:1-3), Jesus may have been the "I AM" (or at least with the Father) at Sinai.

At the time of Abraham(more than 430 years before the Exodus) the king Abemelech knew Adultery was forbidden by the GOD of Abraham---who was the same GOD of Joseph. Idol worship was not allowed by the Same Creator GOD---Neither was stealing or lying. ALL principles of those "thou shall nots" were seen and exhibited in the Garden of Eden.
You may claim that "they didn't know", but Paul isn't that liberal and he said he was taught by Jesus Christ. (Rom.1:17-20) "They are without excuse".

"Innocent"---by what standard?? NOT GOD's. God does read the heart and mind(You and I can't.) Therefore, (Ex.33:19; Rom.9:15), "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy".

Note well, Rom.9:20-22, "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
GOD had a work for Aaron to do(which he did.)
GOD is long-suffering toward all Sinners. GOD will not force one's will, but awaits Repentance or arrogance to be the dominate choice---which will receive the right "reward".

I hardly think a baby has much capacity to think bad things.

Even so, there was no laws against thinking bad things .. only against doing them.

God says "do not Kill" in his commands, and then commands the Israelites to kill babies.

The message of Jesus is completely different. Jesus urges one to mine one's own business. That humans are not to kill on God's behalf.

Judge not, do unto others, take spec out of own eye, the adulterous woman - let ye without sin cast the first stone .. and so on.

There is a complete contradiction between what Jesus taught and what God commanded the Israelites do.

There is also a contradiction between the ten Commandments and what God commands the Israelites to do.

 

[sincerly]

I hardly think a baby has much capacity to think bad things.

Even so, there was no laws against thinking bad things .. only against doing them.

God says "do not Kill" in his commands, and then commands the Israelites to kill babies.

The message of Jesus is completely different. Jesus urges one to mine one's own business. That humans are not to kill on God's behalf.

Judge not, do unto others, take spec out of own eye, the adulterous woman - let ye without sin cast the first stone .. and so on.

There is a complete contradiction between what Jesus taught and what God commanded the Israelites do.

There is also a contradiction between the ten Commandments and what God commands the Israelites to do.

I see you are judging GOD the Father without considering what is in your eye; And have cast that stone in GOD's direction.
Were you there to appraise those "innocent" who GOD had found guilty??
Since Jesus only said and did that which the Father had sent HIM to do, it appears that it is your exegesis which is faulty.

 

[Oryonder]

I see you are judging GOD the Father without considering what is in your eye; And have cast that stone in GOD's direction.
Were you there to appraise those "innocent" who GOD had found guilty??
Since Jesus only said and did that which the Father had sent HIM to do, it appears that it is your exegesis which is faulty.

You are mistaken. I do not judge God at all nor have I cast any stones.

It is God that contradicts his own commands ( if one believes the Bible in a literal way)

Jesus also contradicts the laws and example of God if one believes the Bible.

Your claim that a baby is somehow guilty of breaking God's law is laughable. Never mind this .. God even orders humans to kill the "unborn" ! Are they guilty too ?

You do not need to go into all these mental contortions to make the facts fit.
I will tell you how to reconcile your beliefs with the contradictions in the Bible.

Just realize that at least some of the Bible is not inspired .. problem solved.

Now all you have to do is figure out which is from God and which is not !

Unless you want to believe in some kind of naive God that contradicts himself in which case .. keep on ..keepen on.