How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[waitasec]

I see you are judging GOD the Father without considering what is in your eye; And have cast that stone in GOD's direction.
Were you there to appraise those "innocent" who GOD had found guilty??
Since Jesus only said and did that which the Father had sent HIM to do, it appears that it is your exegesis which is faulty.

babies are deserving of death, really?


wow...


please explain the difference between this line of thinking and of those that flew in the WTC...

 

[Oryonder]

babies are deserving of death, really?


wow...


please explain the difference between this line of thinking and of those that flew in the WTC...

Good point.

By such logic, religious killing of almost anyone is justified.

Not only is it justified .. it is commanded.

The command "Thou shalt not kill" is thus transformed into a command to:

"Kill anyone that we humans think is not religious enough"

This idea was warped even further by the Catholic Church some 1000 years ago. Do not just kill anyone who disagree's with us but torture them in the most horrific means possible to send a message to anyone else that might think of dissent.

To then turn around and claim to be a follower of Jesus is hypocrisy of the highest degree.

 

[Oryonder]

Not wanting to encourage digression.....have you read the book of Job?

Check my topics...there's a lengthy discussion about it.

Considering my entire post was request for you to stay on topic and not digress .. forgive me for not wanting to encourage further digression.

Why don't you have a try and responding to the post instead of asking unrelated questions in an effort to divert the thread.

You do this whenever your logic is shown to be flawed.

It does not kill a person to cede a point that is obviously flawed ya know.

 

[sincerly]

You are mistaken. I do not judge God at all nor have I cast any stones.

look at this next statements of yours

It is God that contradicts his own commands ( if one believes the Bible in a literal way)

Jesus also contradicts the laws and example of God if one believes the Bible.

Not only judging, but casting verbal stones----And denying the validity of HIS prophecies/writen word.

Your claim that a baby is somehow guilty of breaking God's law is laughable. Never mind this .. God even orders humans to kill the "unborn" ! Are they guilty too ?

The decision was made many centuries ago concerning people who GOD had judged---knowingly. I believe GOD, not your or other's opinions to the contrary.

You do not need to go into all these mental contortions to make the facts fit.
I will tell you how to reconcile your beliefs with the contradictions in the Bible.

Just realize that at least some of the Bible is not inspired .. problem solved.

Now all you have to do is figure out which is from God and which is not !

Unless you want to believe in some kind of naive God that contradicts himself in which case .. keep on ..keepen on.

Isn't that the same principle which Satan/Serpent applied in the garden?? Doubt/fault GOD??? Human understanding/wisdom is always infinitely better than GOD's???

 

[sincerly]

It does not kill a person to cede a point that is obviously flawed ya know.

But a "point which is flawed" and continued to be defended which is Contrary to GOD'S Word will cause one to die the "second death".

 

[Thief]

Considering my entire post was request for you to stay on topic and not digress .. forgive me for not wanting to encourage further digression.

Why don't you have a try and responding to the post instead of asking unrelated questions in an effort to divert the thread.

You do this whenever your logic is shown to be flawed.

It does not kill a person to cede a point that is obviously flawed ya know.

Specifically the flaw you allege is what?.....be precise.

 

[Oryonder]

look at this next statements of yours
Not only judging, but casting verbal stones----???

Pointing out a contradiction is not judging nor casting stones.

God told the Israelites to kill babies. God told the Israelites not to Kill.

And denying the validity of HIS prophecies/writen word.

The Bible was written 1000 years after Moses by man. What I am denying is the valitidy of what the editors wrote.

The decision was made many centuries ago concerning people who GOD had judged---knowingly. I believe GOD, not your or other's opinions to the contrary.

If you believe God that is fine. The question here is what God to believe ?

To kill .. or not to kill. That is the question.

Isn't that the same principle which Satan/Serpent applied in the garden?? Doubt/fault GOD??? Human understanding/wisdom is always infinitely better than GOD's

Are you claiming that God does not have power over Sataniel ?

 

[Oryonder]

Specifically the flaw you allege is what?.....be precise.

My argument has nothing to do with whether or not Adam and Eve had their own thoughts.

Do you not think God knew the strengths and weaknesses of his creations ?

In this case that Adam and Even had no knowledge of Evil ?

Simple question asked of you and as usual you avoid answering because it undermines your position.

Man was created as an animal...Day Six.
No law...no restrictions....no transgression....
But to say Man was devoid of misbehavior?
Was not Man already performing harm?

Chapter Two is a story of a chosen specimen....Adam.
An alteration was made....body and spirit.

Now ....at what point do you think Adam learn the difference between good and evil?

Was he brought into the garden already knowing?...apparently not.
Not much of a story...or change...if he did.

Do you think you can teach an animal the difference?
Or does a change of body seem a prerequisite?

Do you think we humans would be as we are now?...without the garden event?

The question is about "what God knows" about his creations in realtion to a specific event (The interaction with Sataniel).. not what Adam and Eve were doing in the Garden on a day to day basis.

Your dodge is because your claim "that God could not predict the outcome of the the events in the Garden" is flawed.

 

[waitasec]

look at this next statements of yours



Not only judging, but casting verbal stones----And denying the validity of HIS prophecies/writen word.

:spit:
the irony....


and of course the one who takes the word at face value is the wisest of all...
excellent logic you got their chief.

 

[Oryonder]

But a "point which is flawed" and continued to be defended which is Contrary to GOD'S Word will cause one to die the "second death".

then you are in big trouble.

 

[waitasec]

God told the Israelites to kill babies.

yes he did

God told the Israelites not to Kill.

yes he did.

no judgment...

 

[Thief]

Simple question asked of you and as usual you avoid answering because it undermines your position.



The question is about "what God knows" about his creations in realtion to a specific event (The interaction with Sataniel).. not what Adam and Eve were doing in the Garden on a day to day basis.

Your dodge is because your claim "that God could not predict the outcome of the the events in the Garden" is flawed.

Your question doesn't undermine my beliefs at all.
And it is the sort of question you could answer yourself.

In creating Man the intent is obvious.
Yes obvious.....you are asking the obvious.

With each occasion this form produces a unique spirit.
Your thoughts are your own.

That won't happen if God is in your head.

So in walking with Adam in the Garden....
Adam's thoughts are his own.

What's so hard about that?

 

[Oryonder]

Your question doesn't undermine my beliefs at all.
And it is the sort of question you could answer yourself.
?

I know what my thoughts on the issue are. The point of asking you the question was to see if you had an explanation for your opinions.

If the question does not undermine your beliefs then answer it.

Was God able to predict the outcome of the interaction between Sataniel and his creations or not ? Yes, No, or "I dont' know"

Which ever answer you choose please give some commentary that relates to the topic.

For example .. If you think that God could not predict the outcome try to explain how this could be possible for an all knowing God .. or that God is not all knowing so this is why he did not know.

If God is not all knowing .. is he at least intelligent enough to figure out that the humans would stand no chance against Sataniel?

 

[Thief]

I know what my thoughts on the issue are. The point of asking you the question was to see if you had an explanation for your opinions.

If the question does not undermine your beliefs then answer it.

Was God able to predict the outcome of the interaction between Sataniel and his creations or not ? Yes, No, or "I dont' know"

Which ever answer you choose please give some commentary that relates to the topic.

For example .. If you think that God could not predict the outcome try to explain how this could be possible for an all knowing God .. or that God is not all knowing so this is why he did not know.

If God is not all knowing .. is he at least intelligent enough to figure out that the humans would stand no chance against Sataniel?

What ARE asking....are the actions of Man a reflection of God?

Is Man truly an image of God?

What?...you don't see a separation?
And in separation a certain amount of variable?

Not much point in creating a free agent if you already know what to anticipate.

Not much point in freewill...without choice.

Not much point in certainty....when what you desired was the surprise.

Not much point in letting you have 'your own thoughts' on the the matter.

You want certainty?
If Man had failed to make the choice the alterations made would be null effect.
That Man made the choice in the face of death....
The alteration had taken hold.

Yes and no are not applicable to all things.
And obviously....I do know.

 

[outhouse]

And obviously....I do know.

you havnt shown this to be true in any way shape or form

 

[sincerly]

Pointing out a contradiction is not judging nor casting stones.

God told the Israelites to kill babies. God told the Israelites not to Kill.

Mankind who was created by that same GOD had been told to obey or die. They chose to disobey and GOD did know their thoughts and motives.
Abraham wasn't allowed to possess the land until the iniquity of the Amorites was full.(430 years) The LORD GOD was patient for a long time while the Israelites suffered harsh conditions.

The Bible was written 1000 years after Moses by man. What I am denying is the valitidy of what the editors wrote.

Moses was the writer of the first five books in the Bible. Jesus acknowledged that fact. (Mark 12:26), "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I [am] the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?"

Are you calling Jesus a liar??

If you believe God that is fine. The question here is what God to believe ?

To kill .. or not to kill. That is the question.

Since the GOD that made all things said, "Let us make man in our image", I have no problem. ALL the actions done by GOD was done and recorded: (1Cor.10:4, 6, 11), " And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.....Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted....Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

Are you claiming that God does not have power over Sataniel ?

NO! Like the rest of the Angels who were disobedient, they are "reserved unto the day of judgment."----when all things will have a righteous and just ending. No speculation, assuming, denying, then-----just the bowing of the knee and confessing that the Bible was/is correct.

 

[sincerly]

you havnt shown this to be true in any way shape or form

True! but then, I and thief haven't acknowledged that your "standard of/for truth" is anything, but false---contrary to the teachings of the Bible.

 

[Thief]

you havnt shown this to be true in any way shape or form

You're still equating truth to evidence.

Time to step up.
No more history books.

 

[outhouse]

You're still equating truth to evidence.

Time to step up.
No more history books.

time to wake up and see the dangers of faith! if you dont see evidence and truth being aplied to reality :slap:

 

[waitasec]

You're still equating truth to evidence.

Time to step up.
No more history books.

history teaches us invaluable lessons...
this reasoning applies to everything...unless one is an adult and is still in diapers and eats baby food...