How do Christians view Judaism?

[Harel13]

How was that not how this Christian views Judaism?

Forgive me, I missed the middle paragraph.

 

[Harel13]

Are you asking what Christians think is the role of Judaism in the world today?

Yes.

The religion when separated from its people is essentially the beliefs and practices.

 

[Harel13]

@Harel13

• Post #64 contains the following statement: "The northern kingdom today is several European nations with Britain and the USA being the primary inheritors of the birthright blessingsthat Jacob ( ISRAEL ) gave to his sons (tribes)."
  • That statement refers to the fun and cockamamie notion summed up in the term: "British- or Anglo-Israelitism".
  • British Israelism - Wikipedia
    • "The central tenets of British Israelism have been refuted by evidence from modern archaeological,[3] ethnological,[4] genetic,[citation needed] and linguistic research.[5][6]:"
    • "Earliest recorded expressions
      According to Brackney (2012) and Fine (2015), the French Hugenot magistrate M. le Loyer's The Ten Lost Tribes, published in 1590, provided the first expression that "Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Scandinavian, Germanic, and associated cultures"[7] were direct descendants of the ancient Israelites.[1] Anglo-Israelism has also been attributed to Francis Drake and James VI and I,[7] who believed he was the King of Israel.[1] Adriaan van Schrieck (1560–1621), who influenced Henry Spelman (1562–1641) and John Sadler (1615–1674), wrote in the early 17th century about his ideas on the origins of the Celtic and Saxon peoples. In 1649, Sadler published The Rights of the Kingdom, "which argues for an 'Israelite genealogy for the British people'".[7]
      
      Aspects of British Israelism and its influences have also been traced to Richard Brothers' A Revealed Knowledge of the Prophecies and Times in 1794, John Wilson's Our Israelitish Origin (1840s), and John Pym Yeatman's The Shemetic Origin of the Nations of Western Europe (1879)".
      • Terry's Note: I was unaware that King James VI and I thought he was the King of Israel. Guess that's why he commissioned the translation of Hebrew and Christian scriptures into English in the early 1600s,
      • I only know of two RF members who subscribe to that notion; there may be others. I don't think it's a common belief in the although I am aware of two "big name" characters who promoted it: Herbert Armstrong and the wild and wacky Reverend Gene Scott.
      • Enough said.

I wasn't so shocked, but thanks @Terry Sampson, I've heard of this before. There was also an Australian woman here claiming something similar.

 

[Harel13]

You started me thinking about different religions having different qualities and capacities that the world needs now, and I can see that as a likely possibility. It might take some time now for me to start seeing specifically what those might be. Can you think of some examples?

What I wrote wasn't to say that all religions are legit, but that different nations/cultures have attributes that contribute to the world. Monotheistic religions serve a role in moving people away from idolatrous practices and bringing them closer to God.

 

[Harel13]

The southern kingdom is the little country in the middle east today
The northern kingdom today is several European nations

None of this actually contradicts the fact that modern Israel is the location of most of what was the northern kingdom. You're just saying that the descendants of those migrated and evolved into what's known today as British and American (who originally mostly came from Britain).

But never mind that. Bottom line, is Judaism relevant today according to Christianity, in your view?

 

[Jim]

What I wrote wasn't to say that all religions are legit, but that different nations/cultures have attributes that contribute to the world.

That’s exactly what I’m thinking now, thanks to you. I already thought of nations and cultures that way, and obviously that includes religions, but somehow I never thought of the Abrahamic religions that way before.

Monotheistic religions serve a role in moving people away from idolatrous practices and bringing them closer to God.

I’ll ponder that.

 

[Harel13]

Therefore I see any Judaism that rejects Christ as an enemy to Christ, and God, just as the Judaism in Christ's day nailed Him to the Cross

Which is what Judaism does.
And yet you say:

But, because Israel and the Church are both legitimate bodies of believers of God, there is always a strained 'love'

How does that legitimacy work out?

 

[Jim]

@Harel13 I had a new thought. I’m thinking now of Judaism as being like the Samaritan religion, in recognizing some of God’s prophets but failing to recognize some others. That doesn’t keep it from having religious, cultural and social qualifies and capacities of its own that are good for the world.

 

[Jim]

@Harel13 This conversation has given me some new ideas about Jesus and what He says and does in the gospel stories. I’m grateful for this thread, and that it caught my attention. I’m also grateful for you welcoming me into it.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Which is what Judaism does.
And yet you say:

How does that legitimacy work out?

Yes, I know, which is why I consider Judaism an enemy to Christ and God.

I'm not sure what you're asking as to 'how that legitimacy works out'. Both bodies of Israel and the Church are legitimate as they have been created by God.

God's purpose for Israel is made clear throughout the Old Testament. Because God is faithful, He will accomplish His purpose with Israel, irregardless of Israel's unfaithfulness.

The Church is born out of Israel's rejection of God through the death, burial, and resurrection of her Messiah.

Thus my comment of a 'strained love'. God loves Israel, but is in an attitude of judgement at this time with Israel. As I showed with Jesus Christ, and Paul also. Thus the Church should have the same attitude. That being that God loves Israel, but Israel is at this time under the judgement of God. And just because I see that God loves Israel, does not mean all that Israel does and believes now is right. It is not. She is still in a state of rejection of God in rejecting Jesus Christ. And Judaism reflects that.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Jim]

@Harel13 I might agree with some of what @Good-Ole-Rebel is saying. As I understand it, in times past In Christian Bible stories Israel has a history of arousing the wrath of God against it, by its waywardness, and yet He never stops loving it. The same could be true today Even if that’s only an allegory, I see a message in it that no matter how much Israel arouses God’s wrath, maybe nothing will ever stop Him from loving Israel as much as He ever has, not even if it fails to recognize some of His prophets.

Now I’m wondering if that has any relevance to the question that you’re asking.

 

[Harel13]

Yes, I know, which is why I consider Judaism an enemy to Christ and God.

I'm not sure what you're asking as to 'how that legitimacy works out'. Both bodies of Israel and the Church are legitimate as they have been created by God.

I'm trying to understand how, if Judaism is an enemy of God, Israel is legitimate? Or are you differentiating between the religion of Judaism and the people of Israel?

 

[Jim]

What I’m thinking now is that different religions, including Judaism, have different religious, spiritual, cultural and social qualities and capacities that are good for the world, and that the good in them is from God.

That is not to say that all the beliefs and practices of any one religion are beneficial, or that there is nothing missing from any of them them, of God’s purposes and prescriptions.

Another thought: Not recognizing some prophets would not mean that Israel didn’t learn anything from them about knowing and loving God.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I'm trying to understand how, if Judaism is an enemy of God, Israel is legitimate? Or are you differentiating between the religion of Judaism and the people of Israel?

Israel is legitimate because God created her and will be faithful to His promises concerning her.

Do you acknowledge Israel's unfaithfulness in the past? When has Israel not been unfaithful to God is a shorter subject. Yet has not God always been faithful.

In other words, Israel's unfaithfulness to God will not change God's purpose for Israel. She remains a legitimate body created by God, though at this time under the judgement of God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[pearl]

(Acts 2:22-23) (Acts 3:12-15)

You ignore the fact the His faithful followers were Jews.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

You ignore the fact the His faithful followers were Jews.

I have not ignored that at all.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Harel13]

Do you acknowledge Israel's unfaithfulness in the past? When has Israel not been unfaithful to God is a shorter subject.

(personally I'd put nearly 2000 years of faithfulness in exile against a little over a thousand years of faithful-unfaithful, but of course you disagree that Jews have ever been faithful since Jesus)

 

[Terry Sampson]

I might agree with some of what Good-Ole-Rebel is saying

IMO, one can only agree with some of what GOR's saying if one believes one or more incorrect things, such as:

• YHWH is not the one and only true God;
• YHWH can and does make promises that He does not keep;
• YHWH can't have a covenant with Yisrael and a covenant with Gentiles.

 

[pearl]

I have not ignored that at all.

So you agree that the Jews cannot be blamed, collectively, for Jesus death.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

(personally I'd put nearly 2000 years of faithfulness in exile against a little over a thousand years of faithful-unfaithful, but of course you disagree that Jews have ever been faithful since Jesus)

Why the parenthesis?

Good-Ole-Rebel