How does the story of Adam and Eve compatible with science?

[Audie]

Take a basic course in Geology at your local junior college. Learn about things like plate tectonics, ice ages, fossil formation, etc. There is nothing supernatural in this happening. Indeed, what would be weird is if we DIDN'T find animals within the permafrost.

Things get buried. In the tropics, on the
prairie.
Other things get uncovered.

In the far north decay is much slower than
warm climates.

The mammoths were dead for a long time,
stinky rotten. Mostly eaten by scavengers before burial..

In fossil quarries it's often a single bone isxall that's left.
or part of one, all that was left before burial.

Our friend is confused by his ignorance.
Which is compounded by reading crackpot
pseudoscience.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is simply inaccurate.

First, what is your qualifications in the science of geology to remotely actually understand the assertions you made below?

Tell me, how did the possibly millions of animals get trapped within the vast Permafrost found throughout the Northern Hemisphere? (Not on top of it; within it?)

No one has ever bothered to postulate a reasonable, natural explanation that has consensus for those discoveries… because a natural explanation doesn’t exist!

You will likely not get a full explanation from basic courses in geology, but I am a geologist and yes there is the accumulation of 'millions' of bones in permafrost. The accumulation of bones is the accumulation of bones within the permafrost since the retreat of the glaciers and due to growth, melting and refreezing the permafrost after the retreat of the glaciers over thousands of years in the past. The deposit of the bones did not happen all at once, The passage of hundreds of thousands of years, Ice Ages nor the concept of permafrost is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, therefore your total ignorance of geology and the Geologic history of the earth. In the Northern Arctic and Tundra region there is no evidence of a flood, nor that the permafrost and bones were flood deposited.

And there are numerous, unrelated cultures that share a global flood story. (One anthropologist claims it’s around a 1000.)

Actually all these cultural flood stories have ONLY local and regional flood explanations at different times by historical records and evidence. Even the local people recorded the timing and nature of the floods. This has been covered in numerous forum threads in the past.

For example:

Catastrophic floods in China were river floods accurately dated and recorded in the history of China for thousands of years, back to the Bronze Age in Chinese writings. No other floods recorded in Chinese history.

The floods along the Pacific Coast and in Japan in ancient and modern history were tsunami floods actually traditionally preserved in oral history, later written records and geologic evidence.

The scab land flood of the Western USA are accurately documented with geologic evidence as regional ice age flood event.

There are no ancient flood legends that do not have a local or regional known explanation. In fact the flood myth of the Bible can be traced back to Sumerian writings and geologic evidence to catastrophic floods of the The Tigris–Euphrates river valleys.

There is absolutely no evidence of a world flood as described in the Bible.

Coincidence?

Np, you are just ignorant of science.

How do you account for the ideal ratios, written down by Moses in Genesis 6, for the dimensions of the Ark? These ratios (30:5:3) were only discovered a few centuries ago, that they’re ideal for non-powered barges, and verified by physics studies a few years back. Apparently catching many by surprise.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/university-of-leicester-physics-students-says-noahs-ark-would-have-floated-with-two-each-of-35000-species-of-animal/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479

No surprises

Ideal ratios are common in ancient architecture and smaller barge like boats. The Arc as described in the Bible is impossible to build and be wood sea worthy with all the animals as claimed even today. No such size of boat was ever built this size until recent history.

Another coincidence?

No just still a lack of knowledge of science and history

And what about the ancient Chinese ideograph for ship?

The ideograph of the ship is the traditional fishing boat still used to day, I have pictures of them. The only change is today they have Yamaha motors instead of sales

I guess another coincidence.

No coincidence

There’s more.

Post more and I will respond,

Do you know why there are many celebrations of the dead held at apparently the same time of year that the Flood occurred? Halloween is one; the Mexican Day of the Dead is another.

These are NOT celebrations of the flood

(The Flood event has been embedded in the human psyche, and we don’t even remember why.)

@YoursTrue , have you read the “Flood evidences” thread posted a few years back? Here it is… hope you enjoy it; it should strengthen your faith:

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/flood-evidences-—-revised.223411/

Only local and regional well documented floods, and NOT world flood as referenced.

 

[Audie]

First, what is your qualifications in the science of geology to remotely actually understand the assertions you made below?


You will likely not get a full explanation from basic courses in geology, but I am a geologist and yes there is the accumulation of 'millions' of bones in permafrost. The accumulation of bones is the accumulation of bones within the permafrost since the retreat of the glaciers and due to growth, melting and refreezing the permafrost after the retreat of the glaciers over thousands of years in the past. The deposit of the bones did not happen all at once, The passage of hundreds of thousands of years, Ice Ages nor the concept of permafrost is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, therefore your total ignorance of geology and the Geologic history of the earth. In the Northern Arctic and Tundra region there is no evidence of a flood, nor that the permafrost and bones were flood deposited.



Actually all these cultural flood stories have ONLY local and regional flood explanations at different times by historical records and evidence. Even the local people recorded the timing and nature of the floods. This has been covered in numerous forum threads in the past.

For example:

Catastrophic floods in China were river floods accurately dated and recorded in the history of China for thousands of years, back to the Bronze Age in Chinese writings. No other floods recorded in Chinese history.

The floods along the Pacific Coast and in Japan in ancient and modern history were tsunami floods actually traditionally preserved in oral history, later written records and geologic evidence.

The scab land flood of the Western USA are accurately documented with geologic evidence as regional ice age flood event.

There are no ancient flood legends that do not have a local or regional known explanation. In fact the flood myth of the Bible can be traced back to Sumerian writings and geologic evidence to catastrophic floods of the The Tigris–Euphrates river valleys.

There is absolutely no evidence of a world flood as described in the Bible.


Np, you are just ignorant of science.


No surprises

Ideal ratios are common in ancient architecture and smaller barge like boats. The Arc as described in the Bible is impossible to build and be wood sea worthy with all the animals as claimed even today. No such size of boat was ever built this size until recent history.




No just still a lack of knowledge of science and history


The ideograph of the ship is the traditional fishing boat still used to day, I have pictures of them. The only change is today they have Yamaha motors instead of sales


No coincidence


Post more and I will respond,


These are NOT celebrations of the flood


Only local and regional well documented floods, and NOT world flood as referenced.

He I not talking " bones" complete quick
frozen mmmoths other large herbivores
all killed frozen buried coz flood.

And equally sudden change from tropical
to cold arctic

 

[shunyadragon]

He I not talking " bones" complete quick
frozen mmmoths other large herbivores
all killed frozen buried coz flood.

And equally sudden change from tropical
to cold arctic

???? No change from tropical to arctic.

 

[Audie]

???? No change from tropical to arctic.

Ask him

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Of course he just made up the
thing about "millions".

No, I didn’t. It’s a reasonable estimate from the numbers already found — and are still being discovered — in relatively close proximity to each other. Not to mention the innumerable tusks and other body parts dredged up from the bottom of the Bering & North Seas.

Ongoing global warming will eventually reveal my statement as accurate.

That the few frozen carcasses that have been found date
to tens of thousands of years apart is hand waved.

No, I’ve explained that too. Dating is inaccurate, because the atmosphere’s level of Carbon Dioxide was greater prior to the Flood. Making any accurate dating, impossible.

No hand waving.

Must have been too much for you to have actually read the explanations I provided in my posts in that previous thread.

If readers are interested, they’ll find them…

That with a handfull of exceptions , those such as mammoths are found in advanced states of decay
("Appalling stench when thawed") and heavily scavenged
is also hand waved, or our hero simply vanishes.

I explained this, too.
Some seasons have been warmer than others, allowing some remains to thaw -duh!- and then were refrozen.
You still willfully ignore how they got encased within that mass of frozen ground.
Hand waving is what you continue to do, not me.

We don't of course expect the impossible, which is to be
an informed and intellectually honest creationist.

Lol. It seems all you have are Ad hom attempts. I guess some people like them. Birds of a feather, maybe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Hockeycowboy , "floated" does not mean seaworthy. The students as a rather weak exercise calculated the mass of just animals and probably not nearly enough when they decided that Noah's Ark would have "floated". it does not include the massive amount of food and water that they would have needed. And in case you forgot your myth it was a year long and the water it floated in would not have been fresh.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Sea levels rise and fall, and silt adds to the landmass and is subtracted from some others. Since this typically occurs over thousands of years during warm spells followed by cold spells, this can be and has been dated in general.

Seas are salt water; the permafrost is fresh water. And a slow-moving Ice age will not envelope animals within it. Certainly wouldn’t act quickly enough to preserve them.

I appreciate your amiable & reasoning reply.

Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

@shunyadragon , don’t call me ignorant. I don’t respond to such attacks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Seas are salt water; the permafrost is fresh water. And a slow-moving Ice age will not envelope animals within it. Certainly wouldn’t act quickly enough to preserve them.

I appreciate your amiable & reasoning reply.

Take care.

Why not? As long as it is advancing. Animals will go right up to the bases of glaciers to feed if there is food there. Glaciers did not just "freeze in place". They amassed large amounts of snow and began to flow.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There is nothing supernatural in this happening.

Of course it was. It was a controlled event. God caused the Deluge.

You’re Jewish, right? You don’t think your God is powerful enough?
Amazing.
I guess i should not be surprised…

The evidence is there, though. For what we find.

I hear arguments like, “Why wasn’t the vegetation ruined?”
(Is that what God wanted to do, to kill the vegetation?)

Or, “How could the wooden Ark withstand such pressures?”
(So God tells Noah to build the Ark, but then He’s too weak to protect it and it’s inhabitants?)

He did what He wanted to do.

Do you know why God made it a global event?
It has to do with “the sons of God” taking “all whom they chose”, in Genesis 6:1-4.
And the repercussions that
resulted.

Best wishes, my cousin.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course it was. It was a controlled event. God caused the Deluge.

You’re Jewish, right? You don’t think your God is powerful enough?
Amazing.
I guess i should not be surprised…

The evidence is there, though. For what we find.

I hear arguments like, “Why wasn’t the vegetation ruined?”
(Is that what God wanted to do, to kill the vegetation?)

Or, “How could the wooden Ark withstand such pressures?”
(So God tells Noah to build the Ark, but then He’s too weak to protect it and it’s inhabitants?)

He did what He wanted to do.

Do you know why God made it a global event?
It has to do with “the sons of God” taking “all whom they chose”, in Genesis 6:1-4.
And the repercussions that
resulted.

Best wishes, my cousin.

The typical answer of "magic" when one cannot answer reasonable questions.

If God was going to use magic so much why not just kill all humans except for Noah and family? When you make God rely on magic so much you make the Ark story superfluous.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The Chinese iconography argument along with all of your others has been refuted a thousand times.

Nope. Of course I know you would like to believe that. But I’m talking about ancient Chinese characters. And weak counter arguments are not refutations.

And you still cannot explain wh you think that God is a liar.

Lol.
King David, Jesus, the Apostle Peter, and others affirmed the Flood as a real Event, yet they basically agreed that “God is love.”
Apparently the misunderstanding is with you.

As to the works labeled as being by John in the Bible none of those were by the apostle John.

Such a matter-of-fact statement (but then most of what you’ve said is), you must’ve been there?

Re: the Flood, I’d suggest you read
“The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch: A Study in Scientific History”, by Donald W. Patten

(I don’t accept or approve of everything he presents, like his unnecessary attacks on Darwin.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The typical answer of "magic" when one cannot answer reasonable questions.

If God was going to use magic so much why not just kill all humans except for Noah and family? When you make God rely on magic so much you make the Ark story superfluous.

In almost every incident where the Scriptures record Jehovah suspending physical laws that affected people, He expected His worshippers to demonstrate their faith in Him, by their obedience.

“Noah did just so.”

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The typical answer of "magic" when one cannot answer reasonable questions.

I’ve tried to answer all reasonable questions, from friendly posters.

But the Flood is presented as a supernatural event.

You can’t discuss it reasonably, while ignoring that fact.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’ve tried to answer all reasonable questions, from friendly posters.

But the Flood is presented as a supernatural event.

You can’t discuss it reasonably, while ignoring that fact.

No, you have not done so. You merely repeated old refuted arguments. Can't you came up with something new? When you have no answer you claim "magic". Why was the ark even necessary? Why did God punish the innocent along with the guilty? You paint your God as not being only incompetent, but immoral as well.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

For one, if it really happened, the geology is massively
wrong.

How does the Flood “massively” negate our current understanding of geology? I can think of only one way.

Geology shows that there was no flood.

It does? How?

I think it does…

One instance is, the Flood perfectly explains the Grand Canyon’s missing sediment, over 1000 cu. mi. in volume, was cleanly removed. No River did that.

The other is, many (not all) of the world’s tallest mountain ranges, formed from ancient rock beds, display youthful, crisp features…. Very little erosion even with the extreme weathering they endure. (Observe it yourself.) Certainly not “millions of years”, lol.

Bias is blinding!

 

[Subduction Zone]

How does the Flood “massively” negate our current understanding of geology? I can think of only one way.

It does? How?

I think it does…

One instance is, the Flood perfectly explains the Grand Canyon’s missing sediment, over 1000 cu. mi. in volume, was cleanly removed. No River did that.

The other is, many (not all) of the world’s tallest mountain ranges, formed from ancient rock beds, display youthful, crisp features…. Very little erosion even with the extreme weathering they endure. (Observe it yourself.) Certainly not “millions of years”, lol.

Bias is blinding!

No, the flood does not explain anything. Well maybe it does.

You keep claiming that it does. Give us a testable model and we will see if it does.

I can explain how specific models are refuted by geology. So if you are specific enough then I can make explanations for you.

Your claims of extremely young ages for geological features has been refuted. Did you forget this picture already:

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Why was the ark even necessary?

I answered this; why didn’t you quote it? Must I repeat myself?
Here:

How does the story of Adam and Eve compatible with science?

Take a basic course in Geology at your local junior college. Learn about things like plate tectonics, ice ages, fossil formation, etc. There is nothing supernatural in this happening. Indeed, what would be weird is if we DIDN'T find animals within the permafrost. Things get buried. In the...

www.religiousforums.com

Why did God punish the innocent along with the guilty?

According to 2Pet.2:5, Noah was “a preacher of righteousness”, he warned them. They had the opportunity to “demonstrate their faith” & get on the Ark.

You paint your God as not being only incompetent, but immoral as well.

Oh grief! So says the misinformed.

Jehovah saved the human race from subjugation. Just imagine if Genesis 6:1-4 had continued!

Not having been taught the Bible’s tenets with accuracy — you believe it teaches hod-dishonoring doctrines like Hellfire, etc — I can understand why you don’t grasp how Jesus, the Apostle Peter & others, presenting the Flood as factual, could still call Jehovah a loving God.

A Resurrection is coming for those who “RIP”.

SZ said:
“Why not? As long as it is advancing. Animals will go right up to the bases of glaciers to feed if there is food there. Glaciers did not just "freeze in place". They amassed large amounts of snow and began to flow.”

Wow! Just…wow.
You can’t really think this is a reasonable and acceptable explanation of how animals got trapped and preserved within the Permafrost.

Maybe you can.

On that note I’m done.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I answered this; why didn’t you quote it? Must I repeat myself?
Here:

How does the story of Adam and Eve compatible with science?

Take a basic course in Geology at your local junior college. Learn about things like plate tectonics, ice ages, fossil formation, etc. There is nothing supernatural in this happening. Indeed, what would be weird is if we DIDN'T find animals within the permafrost. Things get buried. In the...

www.religiousforums.com

According to 2Pet.2:5, Noah was “a preacher of righteousness”, he warned them. They had the opportunity to “demonstrate their faith” & get on the Ark.

No, they didn't. Supposedly there were a lot of people at that time. Of all ages. The babies and children had no such choices in the myth.. And cruelty to animals is till cruelty. Your God fails at all levels in the myth.

Oh grief! So says the misinformed.

Jehovah saved the human race from subjugation. Just imagine if Genesis 6:1-4 had continued!

No, he didn't. He kill almost the entire human race in the myth. That is not saving. Since God could use magic why didn't he just kill the subjugators? You can't use magic as an excuse and then say that God could not have done it in a more sensible way,

Not having been taught the Bible’s tenets with accuracy — you believe it teaches hod-dishonoring doctrines like Hellfire, etc — I can understand why you don’t grasp how Jesus, the Apostle Peter & others, presenting the Flood as factual, could still call Jehovah a loving God.

Please, don't make false claims about others. You are if anyone the one has been taught improperly. You keep forgetting that you keep claiming that God is a liar.

A Resurrection is coming for those who “RIP”.

SZ said:
“Why not? As long as it is advancing. Animals will go right up to the bases of glaciers to feed if there is food there. Glaciers did not just "freeze in place". They amassed large amounts of snow and began to flow.”

Wow! Just…wow.
You can’t really think this is a reasonable and acceptable explanation of how animals got trapped and preserved within the Permafrost.

Maybe you can.

On that note I’m done.

Animals died near the base of a glacier. A hard winder came. The glacier advanced enough to cover them. Done.

You cannot even make a testable model. That means that you have no evidence at all..


And once again you keep forgetting how you lost the millions of years argument. Here is the picture that proves you wrong again: