How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

[firedragon]

First off there are different classifications.
1. Could be inherited sin
2. The Natural disasters can be attributed to the way we treat the earth, or Satan
3. Or our imperfect minds make huge mistakes because we don't have the perfect capacity anymore.

There is a variety of reasons, but imperfection is real.

Just look at your answer Paul.

1. Could be inherited sin. Could be? What kind of reasoning is that?

A little child has died in a landslide. actually 15 people including this baby. How could you answer with a could be? And is that could be biblical? Again I will quote Ezekiel.

"He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live." Ezekiel 18. Now you will quote me Saul from the NT. Does that mean the bible contradicts itself? Or the moralities of Gods nature changed? There was no original sin UNTIL Jesus was born. Or was it UNTIL Saul was born? What is your scriptural stand for this?

Let me tell you that you will not reconcile this because it cannot be reconciled. You will avoid this question or ask another question. You cannot answer this with direct answers because its your Bible that you have to answer with. Because this is a theological question and your basis is the bible. Youre an Evangelist, dont you think about what the Bible says at all?

What is the redemption for that child to have suffered under mud and sand and died? Afterlife. Have you read Ecclesias? Have you read Job? Those two books negate afterlife. Do you even know that?

A child is punished for the sins of the father you say (When I say father its the ancestor, biblical language mate, because you always quickly change it into normal language when convenient), while the bible says no, the son shall not bear the guilt of the father, and the father shall die for his own sins. Again, that's from Ezekiel 18.

While your bible says this, how could you answer saying "Could be inherited sin". I think its a complete hypocritical ignorance or ignorance.

2. The way we treat earth does cause disasters. The universe itself also causes natural disasters. The balance of the universe is a scientific subject, I am no scientist. But this is a somewhat valid answer. But then you have followed your 1st reasoning with this. The could be inherited sin answer. Where do you stand? Where does the bible stand?

3. Or our imperfect minds make huge mistakes because we don't have the perfect capacity anymore. Thats what you said. What does an imperfect mind have to do with a landslide. Are you saying that the child was stupid or dirty minded? Yes we make huge mistakes, sometimes with good intentions. Like the invention of explosives, or einsteins atomic bomb. But one day those things might save us from a bigger disaster. But you said "anymore". When did we ever have perfect capacity? If you say before Adam ate the fruit, do you mean there were no perfect persons after that? The bible is rampant with prophets who never had sinned, but Adam sinned, Eve sinned (According to the bible), they had imperfect minds before they ate the fruit, if their minds were perfect they would have never eaten from the forbidden tree. Thus, when did we have perfect capacity, since you said "Anymore".

I personally think that you are just bringing reasons out of a magical hat called "top of mind". You are so lost in the original sin thing that you have lost the need to know the bible as well as common sense.

I apologise if I come out to be sarcastic here, but this is not sarcasm, this is an effort to make you go back to your own bible and your own wisdom.

Peace.

 

[anonymous9887]

Is it one of those reasons or all 3?

It's #2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Are you crazy?
The 'loving father' we know as Almighty God gives life and takes life. When we leave this world, we return to God! What has God got to 'mourn' about?
You are the one who is illogical

First of all, the word ' father ' means ' life giver ' and Not life taker.
Almighty God is our ' Heavenly Father ' so God is our Life Giver and Not life taker.
If you want to place blame for death blame the one with the power of death -> Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan introduced death into our world by his first told lie at Genesis 3:4 that we would Not die if we broke God's Law - Genesis 2:17
We die because we sin. If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
Because we can't stop sinning our Heavenly Father (aka Life Giver) arranged and gave us a ransom ( Jesus ) to set us free from enemy death - Genesis 3:15
Starting with Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth enemy death will finally be No more ever again - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of Earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

 

[anonymous9887]

Just look at your answer Paul.

1. Could be inherited sin. Could be? What kind of reasoning is that?

A little child has died in a landslide. actually 15 people including this baby. How could you answer with a could be? And is that could be biblical? Again I will quote Ezekiel.

"He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live." Ezekiel 18. Now you will quote me Saul from the NT. Does that mean the bible contradicts itself? Or the moralities of Gods nature changed? There was no original sin UNTIL Jesus was born. Or was it UNTIL Saul was born? What is your scriptural stand for this?

Let me tell you that you will not reconcile this because it cannot be reconciled. You will avoid this question or ask another question. You cannot answer this with direct answers because its your Bible that you have to answer with. Because this is a theological question and your basis is the bible. Youre an Evangelist, dont you think about what the Bible says at all?

What is the redemption for that child to have suffered under mud and sand and died? Afterlife. Have you read Ecclesias? Have you read Job? Those two books negate afterlife. Do you even know that?

A child is punished for the sins of the father you say (When I say father its the ancestor, biblical language mate, because you always quickly change it into normal language when convenient), while the bible says no, the son shall not bear the guilt of the father, and the father shall die for his own sins. Again, that's from Ezekiel 18.

While your bible says this, how could you answer saying "Could be inherited sin". I think its a complete hypocritical ignorance or ignorance.

2. The way we treat earth does cause disasters. The universe itself also causes natural disasters. The balance of the universe is a scientific subject, I am no scientist. But this is a somewhat valid answer. But then you have followed your 1st reasoning with this. The could be inherited sin answer. Where do you stand? Where does the bible stand?

3. Or our imperfect minds make huge mistakes because we don't have the perfect capacity anymore. Thats what you said. What does an imperfect mind have to do with a landslide. Are you saying that the child was stupid or dirty minded? Yes we make huge mistakes, sometimes with good intentions. Like the invention of explosives, or einsteins atomic bomb. But one day those things might save us from a bigger disaster. But you said "anymore". When did we ever have perfect capacity? If you say before Adam ate the fruit, do you mean there were no perfect persons after that? The bible is rampant with prophets who never had sinned, but Adam sinned, Eve sinned (According to the bible), they had imperfect minds before they ate the fruit, if their minds were perfect they would have never eaten from the forbidden tree. Thus, when did we have perfect capacity, since you said "Anymore".

I personally think that you are just bringing reasons out of a magical hat called "top of mind". You are so lost in the original sin thing that you have lost the need to know the bible as well as common sense.

I apologise if I come out to be sarcastic here, but this is not sarcasm, this is an effort to make you go back to your own bible and your own wisdom.

Peace.

Not my own wisdom.
Read Job chapters 1 and 2 and you get to see what kind of power satan the devil has, and what he made people think. People thought it was god causing this on Job.

 

[firedragon]

It's #2

Okay. Then there is no inherited sin.

Well, thats great.

 

[anonymous9887]

Just look at your answer Paul.

1. Could be inherited sin. Could be? What kind of reasoning is that?

A little child has died in a landslide. actually 15 people including this baby. How could you answer with a could be? And is that could be biblical? Again I will quote Ezekiel.

"He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live." Ezekiel 18. Now you will quote me Saul from the NT. Does that mean the bible contradicts itself? Or the moralities of Gods nature changed? There was no original sin UNTIL Jesus was born. Or was it UNTIL Saul was born? What is your scriptural stand for this?

Let me tell you that you will not reconcile this because it cannot be reconciled. You will avoid this question or ask another question. You cannot answer this with direct answers because its your Bible that you have to answer with. Because this is a theological question and your basis is the bible. Youre an Evangelist, dont you think about what the Bible says at all?

What is the redemption for that child to have suffered under mud and sand and died? Afterlife. Have you read Ecclesias? Have you read Job? Those two books negate afterlife. Do you even know that?

A child is punished for the sins of the father you say (When I say father its the ancestor, biblical language mate, because you always quickly change it into normal language when convenient), while the bible says no, the son shall not bear the guilt of the father, and the father shall die for his own sins. Again, that's from Ezekiel 18.

While your bible says this, how could you answer saying "Could be inherited sin". I think its a complete hypocritical ignorance or ignorance.

2. The way we treat earth does cause disasters. The universe itself also causes natural disasters. The balance of the universe is a scientific subject, I am no scientist. But this is a somewhat valid answer. But then you have followed your 1st reasoning with this. The could be inherited sin answer. Where do you stand? Where does the bible stand?

3. Or our imperfect minds make huge mistakes because we don't have the perfect capacity anymore. Thats what you said. What does an imperfect mind have to do with a landslide. Are you saying that the child was stupid or dirty minded? Yes we make huge mistakes, sometimes with good intentions. Like the invention of explosives, or einsteins atomic bomb. But one day those things might save us from a bigger disaster. But you said "anymore". When did we ever have perfect capacity? If you say before Adam ate the fruit, do you mean there were no perfect persons after that? The bible is rampant with prophets who never had sinned, but Adam sinned, Eve sinned (According to the bible), they had imperfect minds before they ate the fruit, if their minds were perfect they would have never eaten from the forbidden tree. Thus, when did we have perfect capacity, since you said "Anymore".

I personally think that you are just bringing reasons out of a magical hat called "top of mind". You are so lost in the original sin thing that you have lost the need to know the bible as well as common sense.

I apologise if I come out to be sarcastic here, but this is not sarcasm, this is an effort to make you go back to your own bible and your own wisdom.

Peace.

I do use the bible, but let's do one thing at a time.
Job is the example that God doesn't cause evil and suffering, it is Satan.

Especially I base my theology on what Satan said in Job 2:4 "a man" satan is expressing his ideas. This would be a consistent theme in the bible.

 

[firedragon]

Not my own wisdom.
Read Job chapters 1 and 2 and you get to see what kind of power satan the devil has, and what he made people think. People thought it was god causing this on Job.

Thats all?

 

[anonymous9887]

Okay. Then there is no inherited sin.

Well, thats great.

No the problem is we don't blame everything on original sin. Things are bad because we chose to disobey. The results of the disobedience causes the results we have. Out imperfection makes it impossible for us to be 100% obedient 1 kings 8:46.

 

[anonymous9887]

Thats all?

Don't worry I will expand on it more for you.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mate. You maybe absolutely right.
I was just showing double standards in questioning. If one questions "Did God create Adam to die" you should also question "Did God create Adam to eat of that tree". Did God create that tree to be eaten by Adam for him to die? If God didn't want Adam to die at all why in the world did he create that tree?
Questioning is okay, but not bias questioning.

The prohibited tree was Not evil/bad in itself. That tree simply stood for The Law. The Law of God.
God created Adam and Eve Not to eat of that tree because they were forewarned in advance about the death penalty - Genesis 2:17
That Law carried with it the death penalty (No post-mortem penalty). So, Adam and Eve were Not created to die, but to live forever on Earth as long as they did Not break God's Law.
Adam and Eve were banished, Not because they knew to be evil/bad, but because they broke the ' Do not touch/eat ' Law.

In Scripture, Satan rebelled Not because he was tempted in some way to do wrong, or pressured in some way, but Satan failed in showing love.
Bible principle ' why create that tree ' is: The one who is faithful in least will be faithful in much. The forbidden tree was ' least ' ( it was one tree out of all the trees on Earth )
So, central to the Universe is the question of Divine Sovereignty ( who can govern best ?)
When Adam and Eve turned away from Divine Law then they imitated God's opposition: Satan.
By listening to Satan, Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into peoples' hands.
Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule, meaning mankind can successfully govern mankind without God. - Ecclesiastes 8:9
Adam thus set up Satan as the ruling god of this world of badness - 2 Corinthians 4:4
Like Satan, Adam failed in showing love for his God and Creator.

 

[firedragon]

I do use the bible, but let's do one thing at a time.
Job is the example that God doesn't cause evil and suffering, it is Satan.

Especially I base my theology on what Satan said in Job 2:4 "a man" satan is expressing his ideas. This would be a consistent theme in the bible.

You say one thing at a time, but choose one of the last things I said. Very well done.

Nevertheless, your point here is that it is Satan that satan causes evil and suffering, not God.
You BASE your theology on Job.
And you say this would be A consistent theme in the bible.

Then you have not known the bible.

Give them, LORD. what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry. - Hosea 9
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open. - Hosea 13

No. Thats not a consistent theme at all. Bible is inconsistent.

 

[firedragon]

No the problem is we don't blame everything on original sin. Things are bad because we chose to disobey. The results of the disobedience causes the results we have. Out imperfection makes it impossible for us to be 100% obedient 1 kings 8:46.

When you say things are bad what do you mean?
Bad for who?

Thats two questions please.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People believe in the Trinity doctrine. It is a doctrine and not in check with the Scriptures.
Which would you believe the churches or Bible?

Genuine ' wheat ' Christians believe what Jesus taught in Scripture that he (Jesus) is the Son of God - John 10:36 B
Jesus also taught God is greater than everyone - John 10:29
Jesus also taught God is greater than Jesus at John 14:28

Gospel writer John wrote at Revelation that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B
God had No beginning according to Psalms 90:2, so only God was before the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
The resurrected-and-ascended to heaven Jesus - Hebrews 9:24 - still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12

 

[firedragon]

The prohibited tree was Not evil/bad in itself. That tree simply stood for The Law. The Law of God.
God created Adam and Eve Not to eat of that tree because they were forewarned in advance about the death penalty - Genesis 2:17

Its not death penalty. Its a spiritual death. Otherwise how could you explain Ezekiel when the book says "The soul that sins shall die" again. And one who does not shall surely LIVE. Death penalty?

I know the translation is written in English, but if you are following the bible, you must try and understand how the language works. I mean the language of the bible. Die, is not physical death. Its a spiritual death. Good God.

 

[Jabar]

Genuine ' wheat ' Christians believe what Jesus taught in Scripture that he (Jesus) is the Son of God - John 10:36 B
Jesus also taught God is greater than everyone - John 10:29
Jesus also taught God is greater than Jesus at John 14:28

Gospel writer John wrote at Revelation that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B
God had No beginning according to Psalms 90:2, so only God was before the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
The resurrected-and-ascended to heaven Jesus - Hebrews 9:24 - still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12

If you mean Son by like humankind then yes, but like literally the son of God, then that would make Moses, and all the other Prophets literally sons of God which is illogical.

In fact he was one of the Mightiest Messengers and that is why i revere him.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Its not death penalty. Its a spiritual death. Otherwise how could you explain Ezekiel when the book says "The soul that sins shall die" again. And one who does not shall surely LIVE. Death penalty?
I know the translation is written in English, but if you are following the bible, you must try and understand how the language works. I mean the language of the bible. Die, is not physical death. Its a spiritual death. Good God.

According to Genesis 3:19 Adam simply ' returned ' to where he started. At death Adam ' returned ' to the dust of the ground.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply went back to non-life or non-existence.
Yes, the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 and a soul can be destroyed according to Acts of the Apostles 3:23
Only a living person can experience a spiritual death before actually dying - Hebrews 6:4-6; Matthew 12:32

The day Jesus' died it was Not a spiritual death but a literal death - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Jesus remained lifeless until God resurrected the dead Jesus back to life again - Acts of the Apostles 13:30,37; Colossians 2:12

If Adam only died a spiritual death then Adam would still be alive on Earth today.
The first lie ( that is often still believed today ) is found at Genesis 3:4 that we would Not die.
Eve took refuge in that lie. Eve is Not alive today.

The people Jesus' resurrected were actually literally dead people such as his friend at John 11:14
Those physical resurrections were a sample preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing on a grand global scale during his 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth.
Because of the resurrection, then God considers people such as those listed in Hebrews chapter 11 as alive because they will have a resurrection - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39

Now this brings us to our day or time frame when people alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth ( Matthew 25:31-33,37) can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth when: enemy death will be No more.
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 21:4-5; Revelation 22:2

 

[firedragon]

According to Genesis 3:19 Adam simply ' returned ' to where he started. At death Adam ' returned ' to the dust of the ground.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply went back to non-life or non-existence.

Of course. That was 900 plus years later. But the bible says if he eats he will die. Thats a spiritual death. Because he didnt obey God. If its a physical death he should have died then, not after almost a millennium. Is that so hard to understand?

Yes, the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 and a soul can be destroyed according to Acts of the Apostles 3:23
Only a living person can experience a spiritual death before actually dying - Hebrews 6:4-6; Matthew 12:32

Then why did you speak of death penalty for Adam?

If Adam only died a spiritual death then Adam would still be alive on Earth today.

Oh my God. Yes, he died 9 centuries later. Yes yes. He died a physical death.

 

[firedragon]

Now this brings us to our day or time frame when people alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth ( Matthew 25:31-33,37) can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth when: enemy death will be No more.
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 21:4-5; Revelation 22:2

Earth will be enough?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If you mean Son by like humankind then yes, but like literally the son of God, then that would make Moses, and all the other Prophets literally sons of God which is illogical.
In fact he was one of the Mightiest Messengers and that is why i revere him.

In Scripture, all angels are sons of God - Genesis 6:2; Genesis 6:4 Job 1:6; Job 2:1 <- for example
Only Jesus is called as God's only-begotten Son. That is because the pre-human heavenly Jesus was considered as first born in the heavens - Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14 B.
In Scripture, there are humans who are considered as ' adopted ' sons of God - Romans 8:14
That would make those humans then as being a ' brother ' (spiritual brother) of Jesus - Matthew 25:40 - they have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven - Revelation 20:6; 2:10

Because God gave Jesus the power of the resurrection - Revelation 1:18 - then Jesus is given the title of being ' everlasting father '- Isaiah 9:6
Since Jesus will do physical resurrecting during his 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, then Jesus will be ' father ' ( life giver ) to Moses, Abraham, David, etc. when Jesus resurrects them back to happy-and-healthy sound physical life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on an Earth free from sickness and death.
- Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24; 1 Corinthians 15:24-46; Revelation 21:4-5.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course. That was 900 plus years later. But the bible says if he eats he will die. Thats a spiritual death. Because he didnt obey God. If its a physical death he should have died then, not after almost a millennium. Is that so hard to understand?
Then why did you speak of death penalty for Adam?
Oh my God. Yes, he died 9 centuries later. Yes yes. He died a physical death.

Oops, sorry I was Not more clear. Please notice the word ' day ' at Genesis 2:17
The word ' day ' in Bible speak does Not always mean a 24-hour day. Such as we say in grandfather's day, or in Noah's day, as being more than a 24-hour time period.
In God's eyes (viewpoint) a thousand years is as a day - Psalms 90:4 - so that meant Adam would die within that thousand-year time frame, and so would everyone else.
In other words, No sinner could live longer than one-thousand years. That is until Messiah comes and the time comes when Jesus will do away with death via a resurrection.
Jesus will rule or govern for a millennium-long day, or a thousand-year judgement day, which is Not a 24 hour day but a literal thousand-year rulership over Earth.