How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

[firedragon]

Because a matter is established with 2 or more witnesses.

Who contradict eachother left, right and center.

 

[firedragon]

Again I am not trying to argue here. I am here to bring valid arguments and be able to have peaceful conversations.

I will repeat once again I cannot accept the Qur'an because of the portrait it paints of god.
1. Creating a place of eternal literal torment does not seem like something a loving god would do.
2. To say I am going to create humans to put them on the earth as mortals and limitations, and allow them to do as they choose and god deliberately test some harder than others is not logical at all. If what I just mentioned in #2 was his original intention I don't want nothing to do with that period.
3. I believe the creator is loving the both I mentioned above does not reflect a loving god.

Paul. You think, but thats not what the bible says.

Ill tell you what, read up a bit on Marcion of Sinope. I dont agree with his conclusions of course, but you can understand why.

 

[firedragon]

I will repeat once again I cannot accept the Qur'an because of the portrait it paints of god.

But you like the portrait of a God who needs a Cherub to travel about, who murders children, murders women who are not virgins, all of them, dictates a book with incest, rape, prostitution and outright perverted murders.

Are you serious? Have you read the bible at all mate?

 

[firedragon]

Surpassed you in terms of comment count, hehe.

Lol. Yes you did Jabar.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If I am taking the scriptures out of context please enlighten me, please explain the context, and don't go looking at others work, you explain it.

I already have enlightened you .. you just throw a series of Bible quotes at us to support your sectarian view .. that's not religion .. that's fraudulent.

If you want to study the Bible, take one chapter at a time, and let's see what it has to say .. but please .. forget all chapters in 'John', as it doesn't agree with the rest of the Bible.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I will repeat once again I cannot accept the Qur'an because of the portrait it paints of god.
1. Creating a place of eternal literal torment does not seem like something a loving god would do.
2. To say I am going to create humans to put them on the earth as mortals and limitations, and allow them to do as they choose and god deliberately test some harder than others is not logical at all. If what I just mentioned in #2 was his original intention I don't want nothing to do with that period.
3. I believe the creator is loving the both I mentioned above does not reflect a loving god.

I do understand where you're coming from .. I had difficulty myself with the style and language of the Qur'an as I come from a protestant background and it seemed to me that it did not portary Almighty God as 'loving' and therefore made no sense.
However, when I realised that it was revealed in a harsh desert environment 1500 years ago, and on studying it in detail, I realised that there is no faith without both the carrot and the stick .. Almighty God wishes good for us. I wonder why we have no problem with graphic descriptions of paradise, but find the concept of hell 'unloving'. Unfortunately, reality is that we do NOT live in a 'cotton wool world' and neither is the life hereafter which could be considered as an extension of this one. There are really consequences for bad behaviour .. in this life AND the next.

Oh, by the way, if Almighty God said in the Quran that we would get our hand smacked for murdering or oppressing others, would you take it seriously? It was/is an exceptionally harsh environment, the desert .. all tribes and daggers

 

[anonymous9887]

I did not defend Jabar. If I was, I would have tried to prove he was right. What I said is, you copped out by saying that he is fishing off the internet. Well, arent you?

You have not answered my post. You replied, with irrelevant absurdities.

You havent still told me what Papyrus you look at. You said you look at Papyrus and codex's etc. So what Papyrus?
You quoted Sinaiticus without knowing what books are in it.
When I asked about Barnabus you responded as if you know what it is, you thought it was the medieval Gospel of Barnabus, in fact it is Epistolia Varnava. Bar Nabba. Epistle of Barnabus.

Being this, why are you pointing at others for simpler things like learning off the internet.

Why do you look at the thimble in my eye while there is a plank in yours? - Jesus Christ.

1. I will answer your question but I'm going to give you detailed replies because you once accused me of not providing references.
2. I will have to admit that I blindly accepted what was is in the cannon.
3. I don't just go on the internet. I actually reread the material being discussed I look at both sides of an argument then I make a statement. Do I use the Internet yes, but it's more than just saying what others worked on.
4. I can tell where people have been because of the response they provide, they don't look at both sides of the argument, therefore it is either hear say or a one sided research.

 

[Jabar]

Again I am not trying to argue here. I am here to bring valid arguments and be able to have peaceful conversations.

I will repeat once again I cannot accept the Qur'an because of the portrait it paints of god.
1. Creating a place of eternal literal torment does not seem like something a loving god would do.
2. To say I am going to create humans to put them on the earth as mortals and limitations, and allow them to do as they choose and god deliberately test some harder than others is not logical at all. If what I just mentioned in #2 was his original intention I don't want nothing to do with that period.
3. I believe the creator is loving the both I mentioned above does not reflect a loving god.

How is the testing of humankind making Allah a blasphemed God.

Allah is All-Merciful, he is also never Unjust in the least degree, he is compassionate, he is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, etc.

 

[Jabar]

1. I will answer your question but I'm going to give you detailed replies because you once accused me of not providing references.
2. I will have to admit that I blindly accepted what was is in the cannon.
3. I don't just go on the internet. I actually reread the material being discussed I look at both sides of an argument then I make a statement. Do I use the Internet yes, but it's more than just saying what others worked on.
4. I can tell where people have been because of the response they provide, they don't look at both sides of the argument, therefore it is either hear say or a one sided research.

You just said there are arguments for what i have said.

Why do you not just show me the arguments, huh?

You have been given exposure, so all you do is make an excuse saying there are arguments for this, whilst you are not showing any of them due to maybe lack of arguments truly.

You can say 2+2 has many answers to it, it is 5,6,7,8. But you are not showing me how.

I am rightly telling you 2+2= 4.

 

[firedragon]

1. I will answer your question but I'm going to give you detailed replies because you once accused me of not providing references.
2. I will have to admit that I blindly accepted what was is in the cannon.
3. I don't just go on the internet. I actually reread the material being discussed I look at both sides of an argument then I make a statement. Do I use the Internet yes, but it's more than just saying what others worked on.
4. I can tell where people have been because of the response they provide, they don't look at both sides of the argument, therefore it is either hear say or a one sided research.

I don't know you. I'll probably never meet you. But I will respect you. And I will look at both ends. Why do you think I studied the Bible academically much more than the Quran.

 

[Jabar]

Check this fun debate out:

 

[anonymous9887]

Paul Chavez said: When people are sentenced by god they simply no longer exist, no need for eternal literal suffering.

muhammad_isa said: And you know this how?

Is Allah merciful and compassionate or not? Just wondering.

I know it because of what the bible says.

 

[anonymous9887]

Tell me mate. Lol. What website is this from?

Paul, dont count everyone into the same boat as you. You dont know who I am, I dont know who you are, but we can be honest to eachother and respond with an intellectual response. We dont have to lie, escape, cherry pick. Im sorry, but you dont know what another persons education level is bro. So dont accuse of fishing off the internet.

I hate quoting websites personally. People who quote websites are complete hypocrites just trying to defame rather than make a learned response. I have seen that from many many here. At least they should understand and analyse. Nope.

I do commend you for not doing that. But you are against talking of a God who tests people etc when I have already answered you.

You have not given a single answer to any of the questions I posed.

Let me ask you one more. Who wrote Hebrews?

Scholars say it's unknown I believe it was Paul by the language used, but I have no proof, and I can't say I know all things on that subject either.

 

[anonymous9887]

I do understand where you're coming from .. I had difficulty myself with the style and language of the Qur'an as I come from a protestant background and it seemed to me that it did not portary Almighty God as 'loving' and therefore made no sense.
However, when I realised that it was revealed in a harsh desert environment 1500 years ago, and on studying it in detail, I realised that there is no faith without both the carrot and the stick .. Almighty God wishes good for us. I wonder why we have no problem with graphic descriptions of paradise, but find the concept of hell 'unloving'. Unfortunately, reality is that we do NOT live in a 'cotton wool world' and neither is the life hereafter which could be considered as an extension of this one. There are really consequences for bad behaviour .. in this life AND the next.

Oh, by the way, if Almighty God said in the Quran that we would get our hand smacked for murdering or oppressing others, would you take it seriously? It was/is an exceptionally harsh environment, the desert .. all tribes and daggers

I disagree, like I posted in the thread earlier there is a rational reasonable explanation that I provided from the scriptures.

 

[anonymous9887]

I don't know you. I'll probably never meet you. But I will respect you. And I will look at both ends. Why do you think I studied the Bible academically much more than the Quran.

Well only you and god know.
Because to be honest we don't know for example
1. If your family is muslim
2. With what actual view you had while studying the bible and other things are considered.

But I will say it again, the bible provides the best response of theodicy theories out there.

 

[anonymous9887]

You just said there are arguments for what i have said.

Why do you not just show me the arguments, huh?

You have been given exposure, so all you do is make an excuse saying there are arguments for this, whilst you are not showing any of them due to maybe lack of arguments truly.

You can say 2+2 has many answers to it, it is 5,6,7,8. But you are not showing me how.

I am rightly telling you 2+2= 4.

Well my boy you are 15 years old. I work and have a busy life, I don't just sit on the computer all day. I don't know the answers off hand, I have seen them. I can tell you it has something to do with the book of Esther but I don't remember. But again you not searching the answer or knowing the argument shows you are definitely one sided.

 

[anonymous9887]

How is the testing of humankind making Allah a blasphemed God.

Allah is All-Merciful, he is also never Unjust in the least degree, he is compassionate, he is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, etc.

Well that's not a question to ask me.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is no everlasting life on earth! You are dreaming. Can you not see that human beings die? As I say, so do other creatures. So, are you telling me that at some point in the future, all creatures on the earth will no longer die?
This dogma is wrong! You misunderstand .. 'everlasting life' refers to paradise/heaven .. every person who has lived and will live on this earth will be created again. It's easy for Almighty God as He created us the first time

Yes, we all die according to Romans 5:12.
Didn't Jesus see that humans die ?______
Didn't Jesus, according to Scripture, bring dead human beings back to life again on Earth ?_______ ( resurrected but Not created again )
Every resurrection Jesus performed was bringing back dead people to healthy physical life again on Earth, and Jesus will do that again - John 5:28
Jesus was giving us a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will do on a grand global scale during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth.
1 Corinthians 15:26 tells at that point in the future ' enemy death ' will be No more. That is also what Isaiah 25:8 wrote that death will be swallowed up (gone) forever.

Isn't there a difference between heaven and paradise ?_______
Heaven according to Scripture is God's home - 1 Kings 8:39,43,49
Adam, according to Scripture, was Never in heaven. Adam was made from the Earth and returned to the Earth - Genesis 2:7; Genesis 3:19
Adam lived in the paradise land of Eden. Eden was a garden on Earth Not in heaven.
Paradise means a beautiful park-like garden as Eden was on Earth. Heaven is God's heavenly home Not on Earth.
Jesus talked about people inheriting the Earth (land) - Matthew 5:5. -Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22
SURAH XXXIX 74 talks of inheriting the land and abiding in the garden ( land)
and SURAH XXI 105 talks of God's righteous servants inheriting the land. As we know land is on Earth.

Wasn't Adam told he would have everlasting life on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law ?______
So, if Adam had Not broken God's Law, then Adam would live forever on Earth in the beautiful paradisical Garden of Eden on Earth.
Revelation 22:2 speaks of healing for Earth's nations.
God made a promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth would be blessed- Genesis 12:3
God make a promise to father Abraham that ALL nations of Earth would be blessed - Genesis 22:18
They will be blessed with the benefit of healing for Earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
Earth's nations are here on Earth. What Isaiah wrote is about the future here on Earth - Isaiah 11:6-8, and see Isaiah chapter 35

 

[firedragon]

Scholars say it's unknown I believe it was Paul by the language used, but I have no proof, and I can't say I know all things on that subject either.

Thus you believe in a book known to be authored by the unknown.

 

[firedragon]

Well only you and god know.
Because to be honest we don't know for example
1. If your family is muslim
2. With what actual view you had while studying the bible and other things are considered.

But I will say it again, the bible provides the best response of theodicy theories out there.

It provides contrasting and contradicting theories. Of course because it's not gods word. Nor is it one authors or school of thoughts work.