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How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Bu there is a god, why are the natural evils in place?


That perception is of ignorance. People who say that earthquakes, volcanos, tsunamis, etc are evil, do not know how nature works.
Their only goal is to be alive for as long as possible, see death as something evil and believe in rewards or punishment.
There's no natural evil, it's simply the change universe needs to evolve.
Without the meteorite that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, neither or your Bible would exist.
Destruction is simply a new beginning and those who have more to life than bodily immortality can automatically realise the truth.
Whatever is created out of matter is temporary. It's spirituality and physics 101.
Ancient civilizations understood it and therefore worshipped storm Gods in the Rig Veda, volcano Gods in Saudi and ocean deities like Varuna in Vedic culture.
They are forces that maintain life on the planet.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
1. He gave us a blessing, which is life. If we use it rightly we go to Jannah if we do not then nope.
2. What do you mean he created them purposely with flaw? He created us a blessing. Having flaws does not mean anything. We learn from our flaws and then go from there.
3. God created us as a test for this life.
4. Refer to 2nd one.
5. I have no clue what you mean.
6. Lol.

He created us differently to test people differently.

There parents might have sinned, and it was a test for them to see if they are good parents.

Some people are tested differently.

:)
So it's ok to disable a child because of the parents?
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
That perception is of ignorance. People who say that earthquakes, volcanos, tsunamis, etc are evil, do not know how nature works.
Their only goal is to be alive for as long as possible, see death as something evil and believe in rewards or punishment.
There's no natural evil, it's simply the change universe needs to evolve.
Without the meteorite that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, neither or your Bible would exist.
Destruction is simply a new beginning and those who have more to life than bodily immortality can automatically realise the truth.
Whatever is created out of matter is temporary. It's spirituality and physics 101.
Ancient civilizations understood it and therefore worshipped storm Gods in the Rig Veda, volcano Gods in Saudi and ocean deities like Varuna in Vedic culture.
They are forces that maintain life on the planet.
Ok I will ask directly. What is the purpose of pain and suffering?
Do you believe in a god or gods?
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
This is getting tiresome, you obviously have some agenda here, but you're not revealing anything about your own beliefs, and largely mocking or questioning everyone else's beliefs, I for one am not going to play that game.
We all have the right to know where information is originating from. If you are expressing your beliefs we have the right to question them. If you have the truth you should be willing to share your personal beliefs.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Ok I will ask directly. What is the purpose of pain and suffering?
Do you believe in a god or gods?


That is why you shouldn't skim over replies and then ask the answered questions again.
I'll copy paste for you again.
1. The universal consciousness created the universe along with energy. From a single point called Hiranyagarbha, everything began.
The energy shapes and evolves the universe with time.
All life exists for 4,320,000,000 years and stays inactive or dead for the next 4,320,000,000 years and it goes on and on.
Life starts from the smallest of beings and gradually attains more complex bodies and developed intelligence.
It is believed that humans came to be after 4.2 billion years and are still evolving.


2. There exists what Abrahamic faiths called angels. In our faith they exists as Devas in alternative dimensions or planets with spiritually and technologically superior beings. They often assist lower worlds in changing the course of the species but only sometimes.


3. Now on suffering, DEAth and evil:
As the Buddha said, suffering comes from desire (more appropriately attachment).
God doesn't allow suffering because it's an illusion and a personal state.
Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita says:

O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.
- Bhagavad Gita 2:14


The 5 senses perceive the objects and are processed by the mind. Therefore, based on his perception, he might perceive something to be good or wicked.

Example:
When gay marriage is legalized, the ones with sane minds will be happy for a victory in human rights. But some will be disheartened. Due to that they'll perceive it as the source of their unpleasantness. They'll try and try to repeal it but will be unsuccessful. Slowly this bigotry will grab a hold of their minds and cause them misery, all because of their mindset.
So, God isn't responsible for suffering as he's beyond the cause and effect of this material world.

The root of suffering is ones personal aversion to the truth, arrogance and more importantly attachments to the objects of this world.

4. Why is there evil:


While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises.
From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool.
(Source of all evil and miseries)
-Bhagavad Gita


All living things exists in this material world, made up of energy and universal consciousness (the soul)
Now these beings though part of Brahman, acts independently with each other. Now imagine a field with a bunch of cars being driven by people.
The people is the soul and the car is the body. So when they interact with each other, they will surely crash with a few. The independent bodies driven by the independent souls comes across both good and bad in this life. When he's with bad, evil will follow, when he meets good, good will follow.
Also, by ones previously attained karma, he encounters the situations where he'll be treated in the way as he has treated others in the past, good or evil wise.
The gita speaks of evil and sin and what causes a person to act on it.

Arjuna said: O descendant of Vrishni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?
The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world.
- Bhagavad Gita 3:36-37


That's how evil persists in this world.

The five great elements, false ego, intelligence, the unmanifested, the ten senses, the mind, the five sense objects, desire, hatred, happiness, distress, the aggregate, the life symptoms, and convictions-all these are considered, in summary, to be the field of activities and its interactions.
-Bhagavad Gita 13: 6-7

All together they create the interactions between the bodies in this world.

I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. This is beginningless, and it is subordinate to Me. It is called Brahman, the spirit, and it lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world.

Everywhere are His hands and legs, His eyes and faces, and He hears everything. In this way the Supersoul exists.

The Supersoul is the original source of all senses, yet He is without senses. He is unattached, although He is the maintainer of all living beings. He transcends the modes of nature, and at the same time He is the master of all modes of material nature.

The Supreme Truth exists both internally and externally, in the moving and nonmoving. He is beyond the power of the material senses to see or to know. Although far, far away, He is also near to all.
- Bhagavad Gita 13:13-16



5. Why is there death?

That's a silly question though.

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
-Bhagavad Gita 2:12-13


Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both.

Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul.

Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that he is slain, does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain.

For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
-Bhagavad Gita 2:16-20


There is NO DEATH. only the material body stops working and comes to an end, but the soul is immortal and can be destroyed by no force on earth.

The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.
-Bhagavad Gita 2:23-24


For one who has taken his birth, death is certain; and for one who is dead, birth is certain. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.

All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?
-Bhagavad Gita 2:27-28


The natural reaction of birth is death. It's the fundamental law of all physics.
Nothing can be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed into other states.

Death is for the body, the soul is indestructible, not even Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva can destroy it.

So, there you go. :)
Read it before you put forth your next question.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
We all have the right to know where information is originating from. If you are expressing your beliefs we have the right to question them. If you have the truth you should be willing to share your personal beliefs.


Not every belief has its origins present. Many pagan beliefs in Europe maintain their faith by word of mouth thanks for the slaughter of pagans by Christians for centuries.
Many Hindu manuscripts are lost in time, yet the idea still remains.

Do not club Abrahamism with other faiths.
Often beliefs are by word, not by texts.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Ok I will ask directly. What is the purpose of pain and suffering?
Do you believe in a god or gods?


Since pain and suffering is subjective, they have no purpose.
Pain and suffering are illusions created by the material bodies upon interacting with the material world.
Just as one gets happiness, he also receives sadness. It's like the changing of seasons, all depending on the 5 sense objects.
I believe in neither God nor Gods but the absolute Paramatma under whom Purusha and Prakriti works to create the universe, destroy it and recreate it.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
That is why you shouldn't skim over replies and then ask the answered questions again.
I'll copy paste for you again.
1. The universal consciousness created the universe along with energy. From a single point called Hiranyagarbha, everything began.
The energy shapes and evolves the universe with time.
All life exists for 4,320,000,000 years and stays inactive or dead for the next 4,320,000,000 years and it goes on and on.
Life starts from the smallest of beings and gradually attains more complex bodies and developed intelligence.
It is believed that humans came to be after 4.2 billion years and are still evolving.


2. There exists what Abrahamic faiths called angels. In our faith they exists as Devas in alternative dimensions or planets with spiritually and technologically superior beings. They often assist lower worlds in changing the course of the species but only sometimes.


3. Now on suffering, DEAth and evil:
As the Buddha said, suffering comes from desire (more appropriately attachment).
God doesn't allow suffering because it's an illusion and a personal state.
Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita says:

O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.
- Bhagavad Gita 2:14


The 5 senses perceive the objects and are processed by the mind. Therefore, based on his perception, he might perceive something to be good or wicked.

Example:
When gay marriage is legalized, the ones with sane minds will be happy for a victory in human rights. But some will be disheartened. Due to that they'll perceive it as the source of their unpleasantness. They'll try and try to repeal it but will be unsuccessful. Slowly this bigotry will grab a hold of their minds and cause them misery, all because of their mindset.
So, God isn't responsible for suffering as he's beyond the cause and effect of this material world.

The root of suffering is ones personal aversion to the truth, arrogance and more importantly attachments to the objects of this world.

4. Why is there evil:


While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises.
From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool.
(Source of all evil and miseries)
-Bhagavad Gita


All living things exists in this material world, made up of energy and universal consciousness (the soul)
Now these beings though part of Brahman, acts independently with each other. Now imagine a field with a bunch of cars being driven by people.
The people is the soul and the car is the body. So when they interact with each other, they will surely crash with a few. The independent bodies driven by the independent souls comes across both good and bad in this life. When he's with bad, evil will follow, when he meets good, good will follow.
Also, by ones previously attained karma, he encounters the situations where he'll be treated in the way as he has treated others in the past, good or evil wise.
The gita speaks of evil and sin and what causes a person to act on it.

Arjuna said: O descendant of Vrishni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?
The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world.
- Bhagavad Gita 3:36-37


That's how evil persists in this world.

The five great elements, false ego, intelligence, the unmanifested, the ten senses, the mind, the five sense objects, desire, hatred, happiness, distress, the aggregate, the life symptoms, and convictions-all these are considered, in summary, to be the field of activities and its interactions.
-Bhagavad Gita 13: 6-7

All together they create the interactions between the bodies in this world.

I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. This is beginningless, and it is subordinate to Me. It is called Brahman, the spirit, and it lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world.

Everywhere are His hands and legs, His eyes and faces, and He hears everything. In this way the Supersoul exists.

The Supersoul is the original source of all senses, yet He is without senses. He is unattached, although He is the maintainer of all living beings. He transcends the modes of nature, and at the same time He is the master of all modes of material nature.

The Supreme Truth exists both internally and externally, in the moving and nonmoving. He is beyond the power of the material senses to see or to know. Although far, far away, He is also near to all.
- Bhagavad Gita 13:13-16



5. Why is there death?

That's a silly question though.

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
-Bhagavad Gita 2:12-13


Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both.

Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul.

Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that he is slain, does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain.

For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
-Bhagavad Gita 2:16-20


There is NO DEATH. only the material body stops working and comes to an end, but the soul is immortal and can be destroyed by no force on earth.

The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.
-Bhagavad Gita 2:23-24


For one who has taken his birth, death is certain; and for one who is dead, birth is certain. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.

All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?
-Bhagavad Gita 2:27-28


The natural reaction of birth is death. It's the fundamental law of all physics.
Nothing can be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed into other states.

Death is for the body, the soul is indestructible, not even Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva can destroy it.

So, there you go. :)
Read it before you put forth your next question.
Sorry it was a long explanation, and I know I told you to expand on it, but you I didn't respond quickly enough as to which one. But I will read it.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Once a man asked, "Why does God allow suffering?"

A better question would be, "Why do we allow suffering?"
Yeah you are right to an extent.
Let's say you as an individual choose to make this change, how would you go about making this change. This world is beyond us, there are things that are not under our control.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Since pain and suffering is subjective, they have no purpose.
Pain and suffering are illusions created by the material bodies upon interacting with the material world.
Just as one gets happiness, he also receives sadness. It's like the changing of seasons, all depending on the 5 sense objects.
I believe in neither God nor Gods but the absolute Paramatma under whom Purusha and Prakriti works to create the universe, destroy it and recreate it.
So you believe in a system then? But the question is is there a creator or not?
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Not every belief has its origins present. Many pagan beliefs in Europe maintain their faith by word of mouth thanks for the slaughter of pagans by Christians for centuries.
Many Hindu manuscripts are lost in time, yet the idea still remains.

Do not club Abrahamism with other faiths.
Often beliefs are by word, not by texts.
I was talking to the individual, and I was referring to the origin of the thought or idea he is expressing.
 

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Yeah you are right to an extent.
Let's say you as an individual choose to make this change, how would you go about making this change. This world is beyond us, there are things that are not under our control.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for oppressing vagrants, raping, robbing and executing them. God stepped in to enforce justice, setting a precedent. Centuries later, the tribe of Benjamin gang raped a woman beggar to death. God did not step in, but rather God's people enforced justice.

The lesson? God acted when we could not, but enforcing justice is our job now that God set a precedent. There isn't a whole lot left for God to do. I guess he is semi-retired. So do what God would do, pursue justice, and alleviate suffering, if everyone did that the world would be a decent place.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
This is getting tiresome, you obviously have some agenda here, but you're not revealing anything about your own beliefs, and largely mocking or questioning everyone else's beliefs, I for one am not going to play that game.
For example your quote says "peace is the answer" quoting GOD. How can you be sure with your own thoughts that God loves or wants peace. How can you be sure, what if he like wickedness after all we do see a lot of wickedness.

1. I'm not saying god is evil let's get that straight.
2. I get that God is good from the bible.
3. I am basically questioning your reasoning to how you are sure god is good and wants peace?
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for oppressing vagrants, raping, robbing and executing them. God stepped in to enforce justice, setting a precedent. Centuries later, the tribe of Benjamin gang raped a woman beggar to death. God did not step in, but rather God's people enforced justice.

The lesson? God acted when we could not, but enforcing justice is our job now that God set a precedent. There isn't a whole lot left for God to do. I guess he is semi-retired. So do what God would do, pursue justice, and alleviate suffering, if everyone did that the world would be a decent place.
If in fact you are using the bible to make a point I can tell you the New testament does not teach such a thing. What we do is preach about gods coming kingdom.
 
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