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How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

firedragon

Veteran Member
I believe that genetics is the answer. We inherit our parents flaws. It is so basic. What needs to be done is more study on genetics so that it can be proven that we do inherit sin. Just like Paul said.

Defects and Sin are completely different things. If you think that a child is born crippled because of the sins of an ancestor, then mate, I dont wann be part of the dirty business. I am sorry to say but its dirty business. I doubt a good God will be that idiotic to punish a new born for the sins of the great grandfather.

And according to your theology, Jesus would have died in vain. Because 1 out of 30 babies are born with some defect.

We inherit Genes. Not SIN.

Although I wish I inherited My dads Levis Jeans. They were the best Ive ever seen and probably will last another decade.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Defects and Sin are completely different things. If you think that a child is born crippled because of the sins of an ancestor, then mate, I dont wann be part of the dirty business. I am sorry to say but its dirty business. I doubt a good God will be that idiotic to punish a new born for the sins of the great grandfather.

And according to your theology, Jesus would have died in vain. Because 1 out of 30 babies are born with some defect.

We inherit Genes. Not SIN.

Although I wish I inherited My dads Levis Jeans. They were the best Ive ever seen and probably will last another decade.
Ok let's take it a topic at a time, give me your charge and I'll give it to you ASAP. But one at a time. So please ask away. Be specific. I'll deep study that topic.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
1. What exactly is the universal consciousness? Would that not be god? What made the universe consciousness finally react? How long has the universal consciousness been around?
3. Has anyone tested Buddha's theories? Have you tested the theory that suffering comes from desire?


Universal consciousness is the underlying principle under whom energy works.
It could be, but not the Abrahamic deities but it's more of a principle.
Universal consciousness is Swyambhu. It is self created, no one creates it.
Time is a construct of the universe. Universal consciousness is beyond space n time n is UNBORN, IMMUTABLE, EVER EXISTING, PRIMEVAL AND INDESTRUCTIBLE.
If one has a common sense, a 6 year old can figure this out.
On the other hand, if he's a religious nut job that can't understand the most simple notions of human psychology, then in a million years, he can see nothing but the pages from a 2000 year old book.
 

BenTheBeliever

Active Member
This is a question for everyone who has a god including myself have to answer.
Why does your god or gods allow evil, suffering, and death?
Did this originate with gods initial plan?
Did god just create us and abandon us?
If our god(or gods)is good why are all these evil things still happening?
We can all criticize our texts and spit on other people's faith but does your own religion answer this difficult question?

The reasoning behind these questions Is basically being comfortable with these responses.
God created us to die?
God created us to test us?
God created us to suffer?

none of the sound plausible to me. These do not sound like a good god to me.

Please Explain your faith.
Each of us have a purpose in our lifes. God often uses people suffering to not only inspire others but to change things. God also gives us free will. If someone does something bad it's not God fault. That person has free will to make their own choices.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Riverwolf hit upon much of what I might, but to add to that a bit, the "problem of evil" is a non-issue for polytheistic religions, because they do not presuppose a monotheistic omnimax deity that is said to be benevolent towards humans. Well, technically, I suppose it's a non-issue for any theology that isn't classical monotheism, come to think of it. Furthermore, in polytheistic religions, these so-called "evil" things are the gods and/or are understood as the work of the gods. It's not supposed that the gods or the universe revolve around humans, or that their job is to make things nice for humans. Gods are both allies and adversaries. It is also not supposed that there is "good" and "evil" at all - this dualist thinking is generally absent outside of mainstream Western/Christian/monotheist ideologies.

In short, I don't find the question to be difficult at all, because there isn't anything to rationalize in the first place. It's a non-issue.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Ok let's take it a topic at a time, give me your charge and I'll give it to you ASAP. But one at a time. So please ask away. Be specific. I'll deep study that topic.

Its really weird to see a reply like this. You are asking me ask one question, one topic, which I appreciate, but there was only one question, one topic in the post you replied to.

Alright. Here it is again.

Defects and Sin are completely different things. If you think that a child is born crippled because of the sins of an ancestor, then mate, I dont wann be part of the dirty business. I am sorry to say but its dirty business. I doubt a good God will be that idiotic to punish a new born for the sins of the great grandfather.

And according to your theology, Jesus would have died in vain. Because 1 out of 30 babies are born with some defect.

We inherit Genes. Not SIN.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Defects and Sin are completely different things. If you think that a child is born crippled because of the sins of an ancestor, then mate, I dont wann be part of the dirty business. I am sorry to say but its dirty business. I doubt a good God will be that idiotic to punish a new born for the sins of the great grandfather.
And according to your theology, Jesus would have died in vain. Because 1 out of 30 babies are born with some defect.
We inherit Genes. Not SIN.

Yes, physical defects and sin are Not the same thing. Please notice -> Ezekiel 18:20; 2 Chronicles 25:4 B - children are Not punished for grandparent's sins.
True, some newborns suffer because the parents abused their bodies with drinking, drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, etc.
God is Not punishing the child for the parent's sins, rather those bad-behaved parents are inflicting their children.

Once Adam broke God's Law then Adam slowly wound down like an unplugged fan from its source.
Father Adam could No longer pass down to us his original perfectly healthy human genes.
So, even good healthy parents can have a child with a defect just due to inherited imperfection from father Adam.
That is also why we all lean toward wrongdoing and need to keep on correcting or readjusting oneself to be upright.

One reason we are to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come is because under Christ's coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, then mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of Earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2
At that millennial time No one will say, " I am sick....." - Isaiah 33:24.
Even enemy death will be brought to nothing - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
So, suffering is a temporary situation that will be corrected by Christ Jesus - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14; Revelation 21:4-5
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Once Adam broke God's Law then Adam slowly wound down like an unplugged fan from its source.
Father Adam could No longer pass down to us his original perfectly healthy human genes.
So, even good healthy parents can have a child with a defect just due to inherited imperfection from father Adam.
That is also why we all lean toward wrongdoing and need to keep on correcting or readjusting oneself to be upright.

See this is a theory. Its not even a hypothesis because there is no scriptural basis.
One reason we are to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come is because under Christ's coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, then mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of Earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2
At that millennial time No one will say, " I am sick....." - Isaiah 33:24.
Even enemy death will be brought to nothing - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
So, suffering is a temporary situation that will be corrected by Christ Jesus - Isaiah 11:6-8; Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14

So what you say is Jesus will save us, but in the future. Till then suffering will exist.

I respect your view. Its the theology you believe.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
See this is a theory. Its not even a hypothesis because there is no scriptural basis.
So what you say is Jesus will save us, but in the future. Till then suffering will exist.
I respect your view. Its the theology you believe.

Yes, there is scriptural basis because Adam lived 930 years before he died - Genesis 5:5
All of Adam's descendants ( us ) still grow old and die - Romans 5:12

If God would involve Himself sooner into mankind's affairs, then we would never have had the opportunity to be born.
God purposed that we all be descendants from Adam and Eve - Genesis 1:28
It is Satan, Not God, who challenges all of us -> Job 2:4-5
'Touch our flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Jesus and Job under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Yes, there is scriptural basis because Adam lived 930 years before he died - Genesis 5:5
All of Adam's descendants ( us ) still grow old and die - Romans 5:12

If God would involve Himself sooner into mankind's affairs, then we would never have had the opportunity to be born.
God purposed that we all be descendants from Adam and Eve - Genesis 1:28
It is Satan, Not God, who challenges all of us -> Job 2:4-5
'Touch our flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Jesus and Job under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

I beg to differ . . .

The Biblical Job can be seen as a great Lucifer due to his confrontation with God’s ruthless cruelty, it will bring about a change in God’s behavior (truly an act of great Magick) and present us with a pinnacle of Luciferianism in that man has the ability to stand morally higher than God and thus the creature surpasses the creator!

In the Book of Job God is challenged by ‘one of his sons’ Satan which represents the ‘doubting thought’. (In Persian tradition, Ahriman is born of Ahura Mazda’s doubting thoughts.) God abandons his faithful servant Job and lets him fall without pity into the abyss of physical and moral suffering by murdering his sons and daughters, taking away his livestock, and eventually making the shattered Job of ill and suffering health.

Job, abandoned without protection and stripped of his rights, whose nothingness is thrown in his face at every opportunity evidently appears to be so dangerous to God that he must be battered down with God’s heaviest artillery. God’s robbery, murder, bodily injury is premeditating and he even denies a fair trial. He shows no remorse, or compassion, but ruthlessness and brutality, he violates the very commandments he dictated to man on Mount Sinai.

What is the reasoning behind God the Almighty’s resistance to such a little, puny, and defenseless man such as Job? There must be something which Man has the ability to achieve, and this something is the very same something found in the Garden of Eden story with our hero Lucifer as serpent. God sees in Job something of equal in power which causes him to bring out his whole arsenal of destruction and parade it before his opponent. God projects onto Job a skeptic’s face which is hateful because it is his own, it questions his omnipotence.

The unconscious mind of Job sees correctly even when conscious reason is blind and impotent.
God’s dual nature has been revealed. Job, in spite of his impotence, is set up by Satan to judge over God himself. God unwittingly raises Job’s spiritual consciousness by humiliating him, and in doing so God pronounces judgment on himself and gives man moral satisfaction.

God’s behavior is that of an unconscious being who cannot be judged morally. God is a phenomenon and, as Job says in the Bible, “not a man.” Not human but, in certain respects, less than human, which is how God described the Archdemon of the West Leviathan.

Job realizes God’s inner antinomy, and in the Luciferian Light of this gnosis his knowledge attains a divine numinosity . . . Job becomes like a god!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God is challenged, and Satan challenges ALL of us besides Job - Job 2:4-5
' Touch our flesh ' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar by remaining faithful under adverse conditions.
 
How is no faith rational. Its the same argument. No faith equals the strong pounding the weak. Its what atheism is. They want to belittle religion to appear as strength. To be incorrigible will answer who someone in atheism is. In the view of religion this is what is observed as irrational. So now it just comes to numbers. He who has the biggest number wins. Unless there are more corrigible then incorrigible or vise versa now that is where religions focus is on. If you are corrigible you are actually a better member of society already and that is what society feels most comfortable with. If you are incorrigible you then become a threat. Similar to a predator to speak in this manor puts focus on this individual as a rebel one who goes against the majority with incorrigible behavior. The beauty of Jesus is that he is about sacrifice for others and putting self behind others needs. This is a religion that is more on the hard to achieve end so I tend to like things to are hard not simple.
 

Meander_Z

Member
none of the sound plausible to me. These do not sound like a good god to me.

Please Explain your faith.

This is how a good god answers your questions. From the Principia Discordia:

A SERMON ON ETHICS AND LOVE


One day Mal-2 asked the messenger spirit Saint Gulik to approach the Goddess and request Her presence for some desperate advice. Shortly afterwards the radio came on by itself, and an ethereal female Voice said YES?

"O! Eris! Blessed Mother of Man! Queen of Chaos! Daughter of Discord! Concubine of Confusion! O! Exquisite Lady, I beseech You to lift a heavy burden from my heart!"

WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

"But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it."

OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

At which moment She turned herself into an aspirin commercial and left The Polyfather stranded alone with his species.
 

Meander_Z

Member
God is challenged, and Satan challenges ALL of us besides Job - Job 2:4-5
' Touch our flesh ' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar by remaining faithful under adverse conditions.
Carl Jung, proposed in "Answer to Job" that the book of Job ultimately proves that god is a *EDIT*.... ok he never uses the word *EDIT*, but rather argues that God was proven to be morally inferior to man. Job, a mortal man manages to remain loyal and good to God, despite God's willingness to torment this loyal and good man in order to win a bet against Satan, a bet which God already knew he had won without needing to torment anyone, being omniscient as he so obviously is. The proposition in "Answer to Job" is that Jesus became necessary in order for God to catch up morally to his creation, to experience suffering and pain first hand in service to his followers, just as his followers were asked to experience suffering and pain in service to Him.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Yes, there is scriptural basis because Adam lived 930 years before he died - Genesis 5:5
All of Adam's descendants ( us ) still grow old and die - Romans 5:12

If God would involve Himself sooner into mankind's affairs, then we would never have had the opportunity to be born.
God purposed that we all be descendants from Adam and Eve - Genesis 1:28
It is Satan, Not God, who challenges all of us -> Job 2:4-5
'Touch our flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Jesus and Job under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

I meant there is no scriptural basis for the below statement of yours.

"Father Adam could No longer pass down to us his original perfectly healthy human genes.
So, even good healthy parents can have a child with a defect just due to inherited imperfection from father Adam."

There is no proof that Adam was perfect and due to his sin his future generations did not inherit his perfect genes etc. Adam living 930 years as you say is not enough proof.

And if perfect Genes were not passed down due to Adams sin, then Adam should live the longest. Logical.

Metuselah lived longer.

Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died. - Genesis 5:27.

Why stop there? Noah lived 950 years. Enochs dad lived 962 years. These are all in any bible you read.

And if you believe in Enoch, then he was perfect. What happened to original sin?

Thus according to your logic Metuselah has better Genes than Adam. Did he eve die? or was he taken to heaven? Thus he did not inherit original sin. Oh, some people dont believe in some parts of the bible. Wasnt Enoch the one who walked with God.

Well, nevertheless, 3 or 4 people had better genes than Adam. I cant see either scriptural basis or logical reasoning for your theory that Adam sinned and we all inherited his sins along with the misfortune of not inheriting his most perfect genes.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Its really weird to see a reply like this. You are asking me ask one question, one topic, which I appreciate, but there was only one question, one topic in the post you replied to.

Alright. Here it is again.
That doesn't seem like a question. That sounds like opinion. I will give you my reply when I finish my study on Sinaiticus.
 
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