How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

[anonymous9887]

I don't understand .. this life is relatively short compared with eternity, so why is physical death bad?

Regards 'the problem of evil', this world is what it is .. nobody complains about things when they have their health, good salary and are enjoying themselves. This life is a test in many ways .. if it's too easy we can become spiritually blind, and only think about our enjoyment. On the contrary, nobody likes to have it TOO hard, but this is often due to oppression from society or others. Imagine if there was only a few people on this earth .. wouldn't life be very different!?

That's what I am also getting at here. We are talking about gods motives.
1. Did he create humans to die?
2. Did he create us to test us?
3. What was gods first intention with humans when we were created?

 

[firedragon]

Well Adam had choices to make.
And pretty much this is the theme of the bible is who is telling the truth god or satan?
1. Genesis 2:17 in the day that you eat you will surely die.
2. Satan then says in genesis 3:4 you certainly will not die. He challenged god, and called him a liar.
3. Genesis 3:22 the tree of life and live forever.

If you are a student of the bible, you should know that this die is not a physical death, its a spiritual death.

Otherwise, Adam should have died on the day he at the fruit as Genesis 2:17 says. No. He had children and he lived for almost a millennium.

And if after eating the fruit everyone is surely to die Elijah and Metuselah would have died too. Also, the following wouldnt have happened. You know from where it is.

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

Cheers.

 

[anonymous9887]

1. Would you be willing to put a knife and a gun where your newborn child is?
2. And then a thief breaks in and tries to hurt your kid when you're watching over him. I m sure you'll let him then huh?
3. Astounding ignorance and logical abominations never ceases to amaze me. If Adam didn't know what was good n bad, how could he even know if God was actually good or bad?
4. God lets Satan in n let's the tree near Adam n eve. God wanted Satan to tempt them and wanted them to die. God is the one who planned everything if he's indeed omnipresent or simply a psychopath.
Can't be correct both ways.

1. You can call it what you want, but we have the same scenario today in selecting good and evil, so your understanding of your higher power is sick.
2. I don't care what you say, I know for certain you enjoy free will.
3. He had to know, they had direct communication with god. God gave him a wife and he was so happy. He had no reason to believe God was evil.
4. God did not plan for him to sin, god planned for a perfect earth, and for adam to live for ever. The tree was put there as a symbol of having free will. He didn't have to eat.
5. I don't know about you, but I get extremely happy and proud when my son does his homework on his own and chooses to do good deeds. It makes me so proud that he himself chooses to be responsible.

 

[anonymous9887]

If you are a student of the bible, you should know that this die is not a physical death, its a spiritual death.

Otherwise, Adam should have died on the day he at the fruit as Genesis 2:17 says. No. He had children and he lived for almost a millennium.

And if after eating the fruit everyone is surely to die Elijah and Metuselah would have died too. Also, the following wouldnt have happened. You know from where it is.

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

Cheers.

1. Adam started to die. Decay and aging began.
2. Elijah also died. Everyone thinks that he ascended to the heavens of the heavens, but that is false. God just transferred him to another place, because later a letter is received from him.
3. Well I don't know why you bring up Methuselah but:
- he obviously died.
- if you a referring to walking with the true god, what about it?

4. Again you mention Ezekiel, and now you change it up. The passage in Ezekiel tells how we will live or die when judgement comes because obviously we die in flesh.

 

[anonymous9887]

Where is it said in the bible that if Adam didnt sin, no one would have died?

Ok let's just hypothetically say the bible is false. Let's forget about the bible.

1. Did god create us to die originally yes or no?

 

[Subhankar Zac]

1. You can call it what you want, but we have the same scenario today in selecting good and evil, so your understanding of your higher power is sick.
2. I don't care what you say, I know for certain you enjoy free will.
3. He had to know, they had direct communication with god. God gave him a wife and he was so happy. He had no reason to believe God was evil.
4. God did not plan for him to sin, god planned for a perfect earth, and for adam to live for ever. The tree was put there as a symbol of having free will. He didn't have to eat.
5. I don't know about you, but I get extremely happy and proud when my son does his homework on his own and chooses to do good deeds. It makes me so proud that he himself chooses to be responsible.

1. You mean denying reverence to your ego is sick? Can't argue with thay logic for someone who is willing to hand a gun to his own child and then says he can't see his child in pain.
No wonder you chose this religion.
2. Sure. Then allow free will to your 1year old child n let him out in the street on his own. Smart Christian parenting apparently.
3. A wife? God makes eve from Adams rib (which has to make eve a male due to XY chromosomes) and instead of being a father or a brother, Adam becomes eve's husband. What a sicko!
4. If God couldn't protect his son n sent the devil in on purpose, God planned the whole thing as he loves people's miseries.
5. I m surprised that you even tried to send your kid to school. With your views, I assumed he'd be homeschooled.
N unless your child is 1 year old, it's beside the point.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Ok let's just hypothetically say the bible is false. Let's forget about the bible.

1. Did god create us to die originally yes or no?

Outside the bible, YES and NO.
Yes- because the body has to die and transform into another state.
No- because soul is immortal and no force even by God can destroy it.

 

[ak.yonathan]

Test.

Why does God have to test us? Why doesn't he just make His presence known to all? Surely that is within the range of abilities of an omnipotent being?

 

[ak.yonathan]

1. God created us as a mercy. This life is a test for the Hereafter.
2. No not everything. Humans were not flawless, Jinn not, and Angels are though, as they have no free will.
3. I believe some people are tested in different ways. For example, poor people are tested to see if they are still do not become greedy. And rich people give charity and things of such.
4. No.
5. If you mean by making no mistakes, then nope. By sinning, most people cannot. It is extremely difficult. It does not matter how complex we are. We learn from our mistakes and reflect upon our sins by repenting and asking for forgives.

Why does God need to test people? Surely He already knows everything, so any test would be pointless.

 

[ak.yonathan]

God made us to liberate the spirits trapped inside the energetic-material world.
God is not Omnipotent. So yes, God lacks the ability to prevent evil all of the time.

If 'God' is not omnipotent, then it is not God. There must be some other reason why God cannot prevent evil all the time.

 

[firedragon]

1. Adam started to die. Decay and aging began.
2. Elijah also died. Everyone thinks that he ascended to the heavens of the heavens, but that is false. God just transferred him to another place, because later a letter is received from him.
3. Well I don't know why you bring up Methuselah but:
- he obviously died.
- if you a referring to walking with the true god, what about it?

4. Again you mention Ezekiel, and now you change it up. The passage in Ezekiel tells how we will live or die when judgement comes because obviously we die in flesh.

1. But thats not what the scripture says. You quoted Genesis 217. It says Adam shall die on the day he eats. Who is changing things up Paul?
2. Elijah never dies.
3. It wasnt meant to be Methuselah. It was Enoch.
4. Of course I will mention Ezekiel, and there is no changing. It basically says that the son does not inherit the fathers sin. Tell you what, Ill cut and paste again so that you can take another read.

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

• First you said that if Adam didnt sin, he wouldnt have died.

• Then you said that he dies because he sinned, some theory that the decay began the day ate the fruit though the bible does not say it.
• And you said humans after him will die because he sinned, again though the bible does not say it.
• Then why does Ezekiel say "He shall live"? "has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. According to you, all should die, because they inherited the sinful nature, original sin, ancestral sin or whatever you wish to name it.

 

[anonymous9887]

1. But thats not what the scripture says. You quoted Genesis 217. It says Adam shall die on the day he eats. Who is changing things up Paul?
2. Elijah never dies.
3. It wasnt meant to be Methuselah. It was Enoch.
4. Of course I will mention Ezekiel, and there is no changing. It basically says that the son does not inherit the fathers sin. Tell you what, Ill cut and paste again so that you can take another read.

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

• First you said that if Adam didnt sin, he wouldnt have died.

• Then you said that he dies because he sinned, some theory that the decay began the day ate the fruit though the bible does not say it.
• And you said humans after him will die because he sinned, again though the bible does not say it.
• Then why does Ezekiel say "He shall live"? "has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. According to you, all should die, because they inherited the sinful nature, original sin, ancestral sin or whatever you wish to name it.

1. Elijah and Enoch did die. It goes with John 3:13 and I'll show you the scripture that proves he did not go to heaven.

 

[anonymous9887]

1. But thats not what the scripture says. You quoted Genesis 217. It says Adam shall die on the day he eats. Who is changing things up Paul?
2. Elijah never dies.
3. It wasnt meant to be Methuselah. It was Enoch.
4. Of course I will mention Ezekiel, and there is no changing. It basically says that the son does not inherit the fathers sin. Tell you what, Ill cut and paste again so that you can take another read.

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

• First you said that if Adam didnt sin, he wouldnt have died.

• Then you said that he dies because he sinned, some theory that the decay began the day ate the fruit though the bible does not say it.
• And you said humans after him will die because he sinned, again though the bible does not say it.
• Then why does Ezekiel say "He shall live"? "has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. According to you, all should die, because they inherited the sinful nature, original sin, ancestral sin or whatever you wish to name it.

2 chronicles 21:12 happens after he supposedly made it to heaven. Now that in comparison with John 3:13 is what I believe.

 

[firedragon]

2 chronicles 21:12 happens after he supposedly made it to heaven. Now that in comparison with John 3:13 is what I believe.

Jehoram lived around 850 BC. Some date Elijah to the 9th century. For Jehoram to receive a letter, Elijah has to be alive, not dead.

And 2nd Chronicles DOES NOT say Elijah died. It shows that Elijah lived.

Why are quoting various scripture with even no hope of proving a point.

Nevertheless, can you think of something for the following?

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

• First you said that if Adam didnt sin, he wouldnt have died.

• Then you said that he dies because he sinned, some theory that the decay began the day ate the fruit though the bible does not say it.
• And you said humans after him will die because he sinned, again though the bible does not say it.
• Then why does Ezekiel say "He shall live"? "has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. According to you, all should die, because they inherited the sinful nature, original sin, ancestral sin or whatever you wish to name it.
• If Adam was to die a physical death because he ate the fruit (Though the scripture doesnt say it), and everyone is to die because Adam ate the fruit (Though again the scripture does not say it), how could anyone be assured "he will surely live" if it was meant to be a physical death?

Do you understand? Or do you wish not to?

 

[anonymous9887]

Jehoram lived around 850 BC. Some date Elijah to the 9th century. For Jehoram to receive a letter, Elijah has to be alive, not dead.

And 2nd Chronicles DOES NOT say Elijah died. It shows that Elijah lived.

Why are quoting various scripture with even no hope of proving a point.

Nevertheless, can you think of something for the following?

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

• First you said that if Adam didnt sin, he wouldnt have died.

• Then you said that he dies because he sinned, some theory that the decay began the day ate the fruit though the bible does not say it.
• And you said humans after him will die because he sinned, again though the bible does not say it.
• Then why does Ezekiel say "He shall live"? "has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. According to you, all should die, because they inherited the sinful nature, original sin, ancestral sin or whatever you wish to name it.
• If Adam was to die a physical death because he ate the fruit (Though the scripture doesnt say it), and everyone is to die because Adam ate the fruit (Though again the scripture does not say it), how could anyone be assured "he will surely live" if it was meant to be a physical death?

Do you understand? Or do you wish not to?

You can continue as you wish with these topics.
1. I answered your claim in Ezekiel
2. I told you and explained sin.

All that's left is for you to explain if god created us to die?

 

[anonymous9887]

Jehoram lived around 850 BC. Some date Elijah to the 9th century. For Jehoram to receive a letter, Elijah has to be alive, not dead.

And 2nd Chronicles DOES NOT say Elijah died. It shows that Elijah lived.

Why are quoting various scripture with even no hope of proving a point.

Nevertheless, can you think of something for the following?

Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

• First you said that if Adam didnt sin, he wouldnt have died.

• Then you said that he dies because he sinned, some theory that the decay began the day ate the fruit though the bible does not say it.
• And you said humans after him will die because he sinned, again though the bible does not say it.
• Then why does Ezekiel say "He shall live"? "has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. According to you, all should die, because they inherited the sinful nature, original sin, ancestral sin or whatever you wish to name it.
• If Adam was to die a physical death because he ate the fruit (Though the scripture doesnt say it), and everyone is to die because Adam ate the fruit (Though again the scripture does not say it), how could anyone be assured "he will surely live" if it was meant to be a physical death?

Do you understand? Or do you wish not to?

What really needs to happen is you address this question:
Did the god of the Qur'an create Adam to die?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

This is a question for everyone who has a god including myself have to answer.
Why does your god or gods allow evil, suffering, and death?
Did this originate with gods initial plan?
Did god just create us and abandon us?
If our god(or gods)is good why are all these evil things still happening?
We can all criticize our texts and spit on other people's faith but does your own religion answer this difficult question?

The reasoning behind these questions Is basically being comfortable with these responses.
God created us to die?
God created us to test us?
God created us to suffer?

none of the sound plausible to me. These do not sound like a good god to me.

Please Explain your faith.

the loving gift of free will

 

[firedragon]

What really needs to happen is you address this question:
Did the god of the Qur'an create Adam to die?

Create to die. Hmmm. Thats very elementary type of question which I already answered many times. If you want Ill give you the link, again and you will not accept an explanation as answer, you are expecting some oneliner with no explanation. That will not happen. But let applaud you for the very sleazy cop out from answering the dubiousness of your excuses for the concept of Original SIn.

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...eath-and-suffering.187349/page-5#post-4752270

 

[Jabar]

Why does God have to test us? Why doesn't he just make His presence known to all? Surely that is within the range of abilities of an omnipotent being?

Because he gave the life as a blessing for others, making the world all Muslims would not be diverse and that is not a point of a test.

In fact all Babies are Muslims, but they convert due to things, and have time to search, investigate, but they still reject after given the information. It is a test for a reason.

 

[anonymous9887]

Create to die. Hmmm. Thats very elementary type of question which I already answered many times. If you want Ill give you the link, again and you will not accept an explanation as answer, you are expecting some oneliner with no explanation. That will not happen. But let applaud you for the very sleazy cop out from answering the dubiousness of your excuses for the concept of Original SIn.

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...eath-and-suffering.187349/page-5#post-4752270

Actually this is a very different type question.
Because this is the difference.
1. Did god give Adam the capability to live forever according to the Qur'an or not?