How hard is it to watch people heading for hell

[Evandr]

As a Christian it is very hard to watch people headed to hell. I want to grab them and shake them and tell them to wake up, you don't have to go there. That is one of the toughest things about being a Christian. I consider how C.S. Lewis had to do it, how Billy Graham has to do it, how John Wesley had to do it. That keeps me moving, keeps me knocking on doors, keeps me asking, prodding, urging, teaching, instructing, preaching, helping, giving, visiting. Within the first 5 minutes of meeting someone I can usually tell if they are headed to hell and I think to myself, what is the point of living for the devil?

You seem to be on the defensive a lot lately so I want to make an observation.
In the Book of Mormon there is a story of the prophet Alma who was astonished at the attitude of the Zoromites when they prayed. When I had read this story recently I thought of you. The passages are Alma 31:12-18.

12 Now, when they had come into the land, behold, to their astonishment they found that the Zoramites had built synagogues, and that they did gather themselves together on one day of the week, which day they did call the day of the Lord; and they did worship after a manner which Alma and his brethren had never beheld;
13 For they had a place built up in the center of their synagogue, a place for standing, which was high above the head; and the top thereof would only admit one person.

14 Therefore, whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying:

15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.

16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that cthere shall be dno Christ.

17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.

18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

This sounds like you Man Of Faith - Setting yourself up on a pedestal judging others as you go and then declaring the need for those who you perceive not meeting you standard as needing saving. No wonder you are having such a hard time here, you cannot look upon a man's heart, you seem to judge on outward appearances and actions. Maybe you should stop that. If you have a message you deem worthy to be heard them declare it but don't stand there and tell us you can tell who is going to Hell and who is not - you sound like a Zoromite.

 

[Misty]

Why would you even consider putting someone that models Christ on your ignore list?

That is so funny, thanks for the laugh!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you showed up at my home you would would find no alcohol, no cursing, no blasphemy, a cross on my mantel, lots of saying amen, a TVGuardian, internet filters, 25 or so Bibles, lot's of Christian literature and teaching materials, you might find me gone visiting the widows and sick. You would find a peaceful relaxed, loving atmosphere built on the golden rule, which is in the Bible by the way. And then I would ask you about our soul and where will it spend eternity.

It sounds like you've been careful to surround yourself with all the right trappings. I'm sure that your phylacteries are wide and your tassels are long as well.

Why would you even consider putting someone that models Christ on your ignore list?

Are you sure it's Christ you're modelling? I've seen very little of him in your posts in this thread.

 

[Misty]

It sounds like you've been careful to surround yourself with all the right trappings. I'm sure that your phylacteries are wide and your tassels are long as well.


Are you sure it's Christ you're modelling? I've seen very little of him in your posts in this thread.

If Jesus was a round today you wonder if he would want MofF and others of his ilk to be his buddies? I suspect he would put them in the same category as the despised Pharasees!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why would you even consider putting someone that models Christ on your ignore list?

As in silly putty?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So is your first.

No it's not.

 

[Man of Faith]

You seem to be on the defensive a lot lately so I want to make an observation.
In the Book of Mormon there is a story of the prophet Alma who was astonished at the attitude of the Zoromites when they prayed. When I had read this story recently I thought of you. The passages are Alma 31:12-18.

12 Now, when they had come into the land, behold, to their astonishment they found that the Zoramites had built synagogues, and that they did gather themselves together on one day of the week, which day they did call the day of the Lord; and they did worship after a manner which Alma and his brethren had never beheld;
13 For they had a place built up in the center of their synagogue, a place for standing, which was high above the head; and the top thereof would only admit one person.

14 Therefore, whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying:

15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.

16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that cthere shall be dno Christ.

17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.

18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

This sounds like you Man Of Faith - Setting yourself up on a pedestal judging others as you go and then declaring the need for those who you perceive not meeting you standard as needing saving. No wonder you are having such a hard time here, you cannot look upon a man's heart, you seem to judge on outward appearances and actions. Maybe you should stop that. If you have a message you deem worthy to be heard them declare it but don't stand there and tell us you can tell who is going to Hell and who is not - you sound like a Zoromite.

I'm used to being on the defensive, I am a Christian. It's only going to get worse for us, even up to the point of jail for hate speech. My reward is in heaven not here on earth.

 

[Man of Faith]

If Jesus was a round today you wonder if he would want MofF and others of his ilk to be his buddies? I suspect he would put them in the same category as the despised Pharasees!

I would be following him just like I am today. I'm not saying anything he hasn't said.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I would be following him just like I am today. I'm not saying anything he hasn't said.

You wave your feigned righteousness like a flag, looking down on all the poor unsaved people and still think that you follow Christ? Gah! Have you even read the Gospels?!

I'm sure you've looked at the words on the page, but have you ever even bothered to figure out what they mean?

There's more Pharisee than disciple in what you've written in this thread.

 

[Willamena]

Isn't everyone already saved? Isn't that why Jesus died?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I would be following him just like I am today. I'm not saying anything he hasn't said.

.....

 

[tumbleweed41]

I would be following him just like I am today. I'm not saying anything he hasn't said.

Ditto

Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing
so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Blessed are the humble, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven....

So where did Jesus brag about his piety?

 

[Man of Faith]

Ditto






So where did Jesus brag about his piety?

Jesus said that he and God are one and that he forgives sins.

 

[Smoke]

Isn't everyone already saved? Isn't that why Jesus died?

It is believed among Christians that Jesus came into the world to save the world, but they generally think that he failed to achieve his purpose.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I would be following him just like I am today. I'm not saying anything he hasn't said.

So where did Jesus brag about his piety?

Jesus said that he and God are one and that he forgives sins.

Are you saying that God and yourself are one? Do you have the ability to forgive sins?

Again, where did Jesus brag about his piety?

Where did Jesus commend himself for the following...

If you showed up at my home you would would find no alcohol, no cursing, no blasphemy, a cross on my mantel, lots of saying amen, 25 or so Bibles, lot's of Christian literature and teaching materials,............................................................................, you might find me gone visiting the widows and sick.................

 

[Evandr]

I'm used to being on the defensive, I am a Christian. It's only going to get worse for us, even up to the point of jail for hate speech. My reward is in heaven not here on earth.

Sorry MoF, ANYTHING that can be seen as "hate speech" never has and never will come of God. If you are ever convicted of it then you are no disciple of Jesus Christ and the only one you are qualified to view as being in danger of the pains associated with Hell Fire is yourself.

Also, truth never has to go on the defensive and if you are constantly there then you need to examine your own philosophies because they are probably in error and/or a misinterpretation of scripture.

 

[Misty]

I'm used to being on the defensive, I am a Christian. It's only going to get worse for us, even up to the point of jail for hate speech. My reward is in heaven not here on earth.

My eldest daughter is an Anglican Priest she isn't defensive, but then thank goodness she isn't a fundamentalist!

 

[Tristesse]

Jesus said that he and God are one and that he forgives sins.

How nice of him to forgive us for something he created.

 

[Misty]

How nice of him to forgive us for something he created.

Agreed

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Everybody owes God an aoplogy for sinning.

We owe ourselves an apology for forgetting that we are partly (at least) bestial and that's no reason for God to not love us.

For further explanation, consider this:

“...I think the demon's target is not the possessed; it is us...the observers...I think the point is to make us despair; to reject our own humanity...to see us as ultimately bestial; as ultimately vile and putrescent; without dignity; ugly; unworthy. And there lies the heart of it, perhaps: in unworthiness. For I think belief in God is not a matter of reason at all; I think it is a matter of love; of accepting the possibility that God could love us.” William Blatty, The Exorcist, pg 369.