I don't know, nor do I really care.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How in the world can ANYBODY think the Jews and Christians have the same god, that Jesus is messiah?
- Thread starter 1137
- Start date
I don't know, nor do I really care.
Thana
Lady
Which He will do, At His second coming.
I mean, When you really think about it, It's unreasonable to have expected the fulfillment back then.
If it had happened, We wouldn't have what we do now and wouldn't have the free will to find God as Gentiles ourselves.
dantech
Well-Known Member
Ok. It's not just me then...
@Thana have a marry Christmas... I'm stumped arguing with your own personal, made up version of the Messiah. Other Christians at least attempt to prove that he did fulfill the prophecies. To you, he didn't, yet he's still the messiah who we only expect in the first place thanks to these same prophecies, which he didn't fulfill... I don't have to agree with you, but in trying really hard to see how this could make sense to anyone, and it just blows my mind...
Last edited:
dantech
Well-Known Member
expecting any miraculous act is unreasonable. A miracle, by definition isn't reasonable. Admitting that he couldn't fulfill all these miracles is precisely why he can't be the messiah..
Yes you would have that free will, as the people always did.
Last edited:
God said the messiah would come and we would know based on the fulfilling of the prophesies. In other words, the Messiah has not ever arrived at anytime unless they are fulfilled.
Thana
Lady
The Messiah is supposed to fix everything and make the world la-de-da, And if He did there wouldn't be the kind of free will that we have now, Especially since one of the things He's expected to do is make everyone believe in God. So it's only reasonable to conclude that the Messiah will come and fulfill these prophesies close to the end times. And Since Jesus is coming back, I believe He will fulfill the prophesies. And I don't understand how any Christian can argue that He already did, When clearly He did not, I mean where's the Temple if He had?
I'm not making anything up, Im assuming things based on reasonable deductions. But I don't claim to know anything for a fact, Except that God is real and He loves me and He's given Christianity to me as my path to follow.
I understand that you cannot accept Jesus, And I'm not expecting you too. But you don't have to be so defensive, I'm not attacking you, I'm just expressing my ideas and thoughts and beliefs.
A supposedly deeply spiritual individual "la-de-da" ing the word of god, huh? That's... New.
Thana
Lady
I was being flippant, Which I don't recall being mentioned in the bible.
And I apologize for not living up to your expectations, Stereotypical as they may be.
Thana
Lady
And in what way was I denying the word of God?
Man you really like to just run off with things don't you. Maybe you should spend more time reading instead of writing snappy comebacks.
Besides, Christianity is so diverse that there aren't very many fundamental qualitifications for the religion, Other than an acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah.
And I've met quite a few Christians and Jews who don't believe the bible is infallible.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Huh isn't it amazing how Christian belief about the "Return" changed the more his "resurrection" went into the past?
How could you possibly know that? Are you Hashem?
Why? If a child does something wrong a parent does all the parenting stuff and under best circumstances the child understands why and what it did wrong.
By your reasoning the child has now no free will.
There are no end times. Life will go on. Why would Hashem end all he has done? That has never made any sense.
Thana
Lady
I'm not sure what you mean by that, The Gospels haven't changed and as far as I'm aware there isn't any universal understanding about the second coming.
A lot of things don't make sense, But the end times is not one of them. Whether naturally, supernaturally or caused by man, The world will end. That's not really up for debate, It's just inevitable.
Last edited:
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Another viewpoint to throw into your mix....
G-d is G-d. Therefore, it really doesn't matter what people think they are worshiping, whether it's Kali or the Tao or Jesus or the Kaaba, there is only One G-d. Everything else is "substitution."
Personally, my heretical belief is that Hinduism, and therefore all "Eastern" religions, were brought to India by the Children of Abraham where the G-d of Abraham and his wife Sarah, ended up lost in translation to the god Brahma and his consort Saraswati.
And, that G-d decided that Rome and the descendants of Esav (Yaakov's brother) needed someone to ameliorate their hatreds and pagan blood cults so, He gave them Jesus to struggle with for the next two thousand years, nicely mixing Man as god and their blood cults with this new concept of everlasting Love.
And, that G-d gave the Arabs and the descendants of Yishmael (the brother of Yitzach) Mohammad and Islam (Surrender to G-d) in order to ameliorate the fact that Yishmael is a Wild Beast Man whose hand is against every man and whose face is against his brothers...
It took a few thousand years but, most Hindus (and practitioners of "Eastern religions") appear to be reconciled to G-d who demands Mercy; Justice; and Free Will.
And, it took about 1000 years of "Roman" cruelty and barbarism before Christians started reconciling themselves to the same.
And, G-d willing, after this current "Muslim Reformation," Muslims will finally reconcile themselves to the same.
(If they don't destroy the world first... It's sort of an even bet nowadays...)
G-d is G-d. Therefore, it really doesn't matter what people think they are worshiping, whether it's Kali or the Tao or Jesus or the Kaaba, there is only One G-d. Everything else is "substitution."
Personally, my heretical belief is that Hinduism, and therefore all "Eastern" religions, were brought to India by the Children of Abraham where the G-d of Abraham and his wife Sarah, ended up lost in translation to the god Brahma and his consort Saraswati.
And, that G-d decided that Rome and the descendants of Esav (Yaakov's brother) needed someone to ameliorate their hatreds and pagan blood cults so, He gave them Jesus to struggle with for the next two thousand years, nicely mixing Man as god and their blood cults with this new concept of everlasting Love.
And, that G-d gave the Arabs and the descendants of Yishmael (the brother of Yitzach) Mohammad and Islam (Surrender to G-d) in order to ameliorate the fact that Yishmael is a Wild Beast Man whose hand is against every man and whose face is against his brothers...
It took a few thousand years but, most Hindus (and practitioners of "Eastern religions") appear to be reconciled to G-d who demands Mercy; Justice; and Free Will.
And, it took about 1000 years of "Roman" cruelty and barbarism before Christians started reconciling themselves to the same.
And, G-d willing, after this current "Muslim Reformation," Muslims will finally reconcile themselves to the same.
(If they don't destroy the world first... It's sort of an even bet nowadays...)
By believing it flawed / wrong, by following the most blasphemous false prophet / Messiah in history, by accepting the rejection of the OT...
Why are Christians so attached to the word "monotheism"?
Jews and Muslims are monotheistic. Christians are tritheistic. Trinitarian if you will. This concept of "Trinitarian monotheism" is confusing, and that is being charitable.
Realizing that "trinitarian monotheism" was an oxymoron was my first step away from Christianity. Grownups actually believed this, when even a little kid could see the logical problem. I realized that adults would tell me things about God that were obviously untrue, without the wink and nod Santa came with (by age 8).
I started looking at all the stuff they told me with a lot more skepticism. Then I got a Bible and read it for myself and realized that "This is fiction!". Even Jesus didn't believe this stuff.
Tom
Modern Jews don't get messianic prophecy; you've got to read between the lines...The Bible spends a lot of time condemning them for going against God; then most modern Jews are pharisees, whom Yeshua condemned. Most Christians are pharisee also, as they're taught by Paul and John the pharisees.
The perverseness you see, is meant to be in there and it happened around Yeshua as prophesied; it catches out the thieves red handed and removes those that would swear falsely.
For the messianic age to come into effect, some of the things required, include a new earth, where lions can eat straw, the wolf and the lamb lie down together, the whole world will know one God; for that to happen there are clear prophesies about the day of destruction first.
The perverseness you see, is meant to be in there and it happened around Yeshua as prophesied; it catches out the thieves red handed and removes those that would swear falsely.
For the messianic age to come into effect, some of the things required, include a new earth, where lions can eat straw, the wolf and the lamb lie down together, the whole world will know one God; for that to happen there are clear prophesies about the day of destruction first.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
It is a principle of faith that God isn't physical, never was, nor ever will be.
I'd be more inclined to believe in God if He didn't expect me to "read between the lines" or choose which "prophet" is His True Mouthpiece".
Tom
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Um... no. It is one of the 13 Principles of Faith that Jews DO await the Messiah. The fact that many Jews don't wait with baited breath for his coming is closer to the truth, but even if it doesn't fill our every waking moment, that doesn't mean that it isn't at least on the back-burner.
The coming of the Messiah is mentioned in everyday prayers, after meal Grace, and just about any time we say anything liturgical.
We are on the same page again!
Modern Jews don't get messianic prophecy; you've got to read between the lines...The Bible spends a lot of time condemning them for going against God; then most modern Jews are pharisees, whom Yeshua condemned. Most Christians are pharisee also, as they're taught by Paul and John the pharisees.
The perverseness you see, is meant to be in there and it happened around Yeshua as prophesied; it catches out the thieves red handed and removes those that would swear falsely.
For the messianic age to come into effect, some of the things required, include a new earth, where lions can eat straw, the wolf and the lamb lie down together, the whole world will know one God; for that to happen there are clear prophesies about the day of destruction first.
The word, and therefore condemnation of jesus means exactly squat to Judaism. I may as well claim to be the Messiah and it would be equally validm