How much does the Christian God really love us?

[Enoughie]

In the long term yes because
1) My lustful youth will cease, therefore I am content with my wife
2) I do not seek accessive worldly possessions therefore I am content with what I have and happy to share with those less fortunate.
3) I have the hope of eternal life
3) I have a Holy lifestile to fulfil, therefore I do good to those that I come in contact with.
4) I have a purpose for my life even after the children have left home
All of that I believe helps in making us MORE HAPPIER, MORE PEACEFULL, yes MORE CONTENTED is the right word here.

What if I tell you that I live my life with all of the above, only without the need to base my outlook, my purpose, and my values on a self-delusional understanding of life, or on credulous acceptance of religious dogma?

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[waitasec]

I get your point, yes even umbelievers can be at peace, or suicide bomber can be at peace, even a hit man can be at peace, we all have an ability to justify our actions and to condition our mind that what we are doing is correct.

Yes you are correct, faith is also a conditioner of the mind. But faith in God does no harm to anyone so I stay with that.

faith in god does do harm. that's my point.
i like to use the example of mother theresa. why? in her case we see the most blatant hypocrisy laid out before the world.
instead of using reason to conclude that birth control would help derail the amount of misery in india, she called birth control a form of abortion. whereby setting up a system that depended on her and thusly her name became synonymous with selflessness...
how many children needed to suffer to make her infamous?
it's disgustingly vile. so yes faith does do harm.

 

[free spirit]

What if I tell you that I live my life with all of the above, only without the need to base my outlook, my purpose, and my values on a self-delusional understanding of life, or on credulous acceptance of religious dogma?

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

I would say that you are a blessed man, because Jesus said that he came to save the sick and not the healthy. I was sick with sin you may not be.

 

[free spirit]

faith in god does do harm. that's my point.
i like to use the example of mother theresa. why? in her case we see the most blatant hypocrisy laid out before the world.
instead of using reason to conclude that birth control would help derail the amount of misery in india, she called birth control a form of abortion. whereby setting up a system that depended on her and thusly her name became synonymous with selflessness...
how many children needed to suffer to make her infamous?
it's disgustingly vile. so yes faith does do harm.

There is true faith, which is a holy faith, and there is olso a false faith: the two are like a good dollar and a counterfeit dollar, you need to know the good one to recognise the false.

 

[Enoughie]

I would say that you are a blessed man, because Jesus said that he came to save the sick and not the healthy. I was sick with sin you may not be.

We all inhabit the same world, we just may perceive reality differently. I am no more flawed or blessed than anyone else. But I see that any problem or flaw can have a solution in nature and in reality.

I have yet to come across a problem or flaw in anyone where the most effective treatment was credulity and self-delusion. These do not treat the disease, they only cover up the symptoms.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[waitasec]

There is true faith, which is a holy faith, and there is olso a false faith: the two are like a good dollar and a counterfeit dollar, you need to know the good one to recognise the false.

and how doe one know they have true faith?
by blowing themselves up?

 

[free spirit]

We all inhabit the same world, we just may perceive reality differently. I am no more flawed or blessed than anyone else. But I see that any problem or flaw can have a solution in nature and in reality.

I have yet to come across a problem or flaw in anyone where the most effective treatment was credulity and self-delusion. These do not treat the disease, they only cover up the symptoms.

Practising sin is always a matter of habit and habits are hard to break: the sure treatment for that is repentance, repentance if applied properly goes to the core of the matter and heals you of that habit, but you can willingly go there again and if you do there no longer remains a sicrifice for sin, in other words you come under condemnation. And I can assure you its real.

 

[Luminous]

There is true faith, which is a holy faith, and there is olso a false faith: the two are like a good dollar and a counterfeit dollar, you need to know the good one to recognise the false.

unless you think the false one is the good one, in which case you are still agnostic, as God created you. then, however, you go around claiming your false coin is true, while all others are false...without realising that all coins are composed of atoms, and thus value is only in the mind.

 

[free spirit]

and how doe one know they have true faith?
by blowing themselves up?

True faith is holy, it does no harm to enyone. But gullibility is plentiful in the world, and when one is gullible he or she can be manipulated by an unscrupulous person.

 

[free spirit]

unless you think the false one is the good one, in which case you are still agnostic, as God created you. then, however, you go around claiming your false coin is true, while all others are false...without realising that all coins are composed of atoms, and thus value is only in the mind.

I can see that you are very inlluminated, so much so that I have to squint my eyes to look at you.

 

[Luminous]

I can see that you are very inlluminated, so much so that I have to squint my eyes to look at you.

good point.
very substantive.
but i would counter with the fact that agnosticism is self proven and one of the three basic self-proving truths.

 

[free spirit]

but i would counter with the fact that agnosticism is self proven and one of the three basic self-proving truths.

Agnosticism is in fact an empty space, a void, ignorance of spiritual truth.

 

[Luminous]

Agnosticism is in fact an empty space, a void, ignorance of spiritual truth.

Christianity is in fact an empty space, a void, ignorance of spiritual truth.
again, very substantive...
you turn from caustic jokes to sheer insults. and I am merely left with sarcasm and mocking attempts to show how meaningless your insults are.
delusional idol worshipers have always been the same, always willfully anti-agnostic and against God.

 

[free spirit]

Christianity is in fact an empty space, a void, ignorance of spiritual truth.
again, very substantive...
you turn from caustic jokes to sheer insults. and I am merely left with sarcasm and mocking attempts to show how meaningless your insults are.
delusional idol worshipers have always been the same, always willfully anti-agnostic and against God.

You are wrong again, until 11 years of age I was agnostic therefore Ignorant of the facts.
This is how happened to me.
BORN AGAIN


Many books have been written but ambiguity, I believe, still surrounds this subject. Nothing in what I have read or in what I have heard from preachers has explained the fundamental differences between seeing the Kingdom of God, and entering the Kingdom of God.
For we read in John 3:3: “Jesus answered and said to him, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
And in verse 5 we read: “Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.”
From the above verses we learn that there are two stages of transition if you like: one is to enable men to see the Kingdom of God and the other is to enable men to enter the Kingdom of God. Like everything else in our lives, the spiritual journey also begins at birth. We must realise therefore that when we are born our spirit is agnostic. In other words, we do not know if there is a God or not. However as we grow up, at some point in time of our life (mostly before or in our early teens), we will make that decision based on our own observation of the awe of creation.
I personally remember when I made that decision. It was based on my reason and discernment which came about from an ordinary lesson of religious education that I had attended months before in Rome, which taught that the world was so beautiful that it could not have evolved by itself. Hence I thought while I was observing my surroundings during the summer holiday at my grandfather’s farm, that there must be a Creator. All of the natural things and animals that surrounded me could not have happened by themselves, it was all too perfect.
At that time, unbeknown to me, my innocent fleshly spirit was born again as abeliever and willing to accept the religion of my ancestors. That religion in turn taught me to have faith in its doctrines and led me through the journey described in Galatians 3:23 to chapter 4:6, but now we will read only Galatians 4:1-6: “Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything. But he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental religious doctrines of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, in order that He might redeem those whoare under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! Father!”’

 

[Luminous]

So what you are basically saying, by denying your agnosticism, is that you now know something outside the three basic fundamental knowns, that would be completely impossible EVER to be false. Interesting...and whats more, you are saying you learned this through ONE occurence at the age of 11, after much failed indoctrination before then. the only reason children turn away from agnostic truth is because of the corruption of the mind by Mara. The desire to become ignorant is a strong one. by simple logic, you cannot be born again, that would require you to die...purposefully being "born-again" would require you to commit mental suicide...you are allready doomed, suicide is an unforgiveable sin. the satan you so supposedly fear and awe at its power has managed to convince you to eat from the tree of knowledge, the punishment of which is death, a death that you inflicted upon yourself. if you had managed to kill the agnostic purity within you, then you would be dead before the eyes of God. However, agnosticism is itself immortal, so you are simply delusional...you are still agnostic, you simply deny it...and try to hide away your doubt. its not too late to confess the truth and turn away from idol scripture.
did you know snowflakes are beautiful? life is like a snowflake...natural.
any snake could teach you to have faith in its bite.

 

[Enoughie]

Practising sin is always a matter of habit and habits are hard to break: the sure treatment for that is repentance, repentance if applied properly goes to the core of the matter and heals you of that habit, but you can willingly go there again and if you do there no longer remains a sicrifice for sin, in other words you come under condemnation. And I can assure you its real.

How can you assure me of that? What evidence do you have to support such claim?

It's true that habits are hard to break. But it is entirely unnecessary to accept the religious worldview to combat these. Rehab is much more effective. I'd recommend you to read this for a more realistic perspective on "sin" and what it means to be "good": Why should We Be Good? : Salvation and Paradise | Natural Philosophy of Life

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[free spirit]

So what you are basically saying, by denying your agnosticism, is that you now know something outside the three basic fundamental knowns, that would be completely impossible EVER to be false. Interesting...and whats more, you are saying you learned this through ONE occurence at the age of 11, after much failed indoctrination before then. the only reason children turn away from agnostic truth is because of the corruption of the mind by Mara. The desire to become ignorant is a strong one. by simple logic, you cannot be born again, that would require you to die...purposefully being "born-again" would require you to commit mental suicide...you are allready doomed, suicide is an unforgiveable sin. the satan you so supposedly fear and awe at its power has managed to convince you to eat from the tree of knowledge, the punishment of which is death, a death that you inflicted upon yourself. if you had managed to kill the agnostic purity within you, then you would be dead before the eyes of God. However, agnosticism is itself immortal, so you are simply delusional...you are still agnostic, you simply deny it...and try to hide away your doubt. its not too late to confess the truth and turn away from idol scripture.
did you know snowflakes are beautiful? life is like a snowflake...natural.
any snake could teach you to have faith in its bite.

You got me, I give you my intimate experience of my forming years and you make fun of me.
But while I am talking to you I will tell you some more. It all starts from seeing God's hand in creation, creation is the silent witness of the existence of God.

 

[free spirit]

How can you assure me of that? What evidence do you have to support such claim?
I have no hard evidences, for they are locked in my heart, you will have to take my word for them.

It's true that habits are hard to break. But it is entirely unnecessary to accept the religious worldview to combat these. Rehab is much more effective. I'd recommend you to read this for a more realistic perspective on "sin" and what it means to be "good":

Rehab is a modern word for repentance. No everyone can afford rehab, on the other hand repentance is free, and avalible to everyone.

 

[Luminous]

You got me, I give you my intimate experience of my forming years and you make fun of me.
But while I am talking to you I will tell you some more. It all starts from seeing God's hand in creation, creation is the silent witness of the existence of God.

I'm simply stressing the point that you made a life changing decision at the age of 11...but you deal with what you have, and you already made your lemonade... i doubt now would be the time for you to make any life altering decisions. I guess i'll tell you some about my past. it all fit in around the age of 18, i took a philosophy class and was asked what else I knew for sure...I said, "only agnosticism is true because it is self proving". the teacher asked: "in what way?" and i responded, "because even if you are not sure that you are not sure, you are still not sure." he questioned my logic by asking whether such an infinate regresion was logically fair. and thus he silenced me, afterall he had just proven to me that I knew that I existed and I knew that I thought...by sheer definition. But later that day I asked myself, how do I know that I think...its becaue I think I think, and why is that? because I think, I think, I think...and so on. The teacher hadn't realised that if my logic was unfair, so was his. So It all narrowed down to that basic truth: I think that I exist, but i don't know anything else.
But when you really think about it, it all started from my witnessing of existance, that led to my conclusion so far.

 

[waitasec]

I'm simply stressing the point that you made a life changing decision at the age of 11...but you deal with what you have, and you already made your lemonade... i doubt now would be the time for you to make any life altering decisions. I guess i'll tell you some about my past. it all fit in around the age of 18, i took a philosophy class and was asked what else I knew for sure...I said, "only agnosticism is true because it is self proving". the teacher asked: "in what way?" and i responded, "because even if you are not sure that you are not sure, you are still not sure." he questioned my logic by asking whether such an infinate regresion was logically fair. and thus he silenced me, afterall he had just proven to me that I knew that I existed and I knew that I thought...by sheer definition. But later that day I asked myself, how do I know that I think...its becaue I think I think, and why is that? because I think, I think, I think...and so on. The teacher hadn't realised that if my logic was unfair, so was his. So It all narrowed down to that basic truth: I think that I exist, but i don't know anything else.
But when you really think about it, it all started from my witnessing of existance, that led to my conclusion so far.

very well put indeed.