Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That was its undoing. Had it kept balance between West and Russia, it would have been safe.Ukraine wanted to join NATO precisely because of that war you mentioned (invasion actually).
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That was its undoing. Had it kept balance between West and Russia, it would have been safe.Ukraine wanted to join NATO precisely because of that war you mentioned (invasion actually).
Taking cognizance of neighbors concerns is not submission. It is wisdom. US and India do not recognize Taiwan as an independent country because of China's concerns.You say "concerns", but the reality is "warmongering ambitions".
Them trying to join NATO is exactly the opposite of "disregarding" Russia.
I don't understand how people feel like the best course of action for someone is to allow themselves to be oppressed by bullies.
Sure, just like an abused wife should just do everything she can to appease her husband so as not to get beaten again. Rather than going to authorities to protect her from him. Kind of amazing that you blame Ukraine, rather than the actual country that invaded.That was its undoing. Had it kept balance between West and Russia, it would have been safe.
Even a wife should not knowingly make her husband very angry. Was how the Russians will react, not known to Ukraine? They just did not care (thought Uncle Sam will take care of everything).Sure, just like an abused wife should just do everything she can to appease her husband so as not to get beaten again.
Taking cognizance of neighbors concerns is not submission. It is wisdom.
Not comparable.US and India do not recognize Taiwan as an independent country because of China's concerns.
That's delusional.That was its undoing. Had it kept balance between West and Russia, it would have been safe.
Serious question: why, do you think, does Ukraine want to join NATO so desperately?Even a wife should not knowingly make her husband very angry. Was how the Russians will react, not known to Ukraine? They just did not care (thought Uncle Sam will take care of everything).
Let me tell you that I have heard rumors. Dangerous rumors.Serious question: why, do you think, does Ukraine want to join NATO so desperately?
Yet again, blaming the victim. Obviously spouses should treat each other well, but that's not what we're talking about. A spouse should not beat their partner. Whether or not the partner did something that annoyed or angered them is irrelevant. The point is still that, just like an abused wife should not be blamed for "provoking" her abusive husband into beating her, Ukraine can't be blamed for "provoking" Russia into invading them.Even a wife should not knowingly make her husband very angry.
Let's recap:Was how the Russians will react, not known to Ukraine? They just did not care (thought Uncle Sam will take care of everything).
I'm sorry; was this meant to make sense or respond to the question you quoted?Let me tell you that I have heard rumors. Dangerous rumors.
That if those warmongers succeed in provoking world war three, many countries will quit the NATO.
So... I would suggest these politicians thirsty for war to favor an escalation, because the army is armed, They aren't.
I haven't heard about the dude in years and I am not aware of him making any such statements.You sound like Verhofstadt...sometimes.
How can I know you're not him?![]()
Did you get these "rumors" from what-you-like-to-call "european media" which in reality really is the russian ministry of foreign affairs?Let me tell you that I have heard rumors. Dangerous rumors.
That if those warmongers succeed in provoking world war three, many countries will quit the NATO.
So... I would suggest these politicians thirsty for war to favor an escalation, because the army is armed, They aren't.
"Jews knew they would be rounded up by Nazi's and yet they didn't change their name, reject their religion, etc... so they had it coming and don't have a right to complain".Yet again, blaming the victim. Obviously spouses should treat each other well, but that's not what we're talking about. A spouse should not beat their partner. Whether or not the partner did something that annoyed or angered them is irrelevant. The point is still that, just like an abused wife should not be blamed for "provoking" her abusive husband into beating her, Ukraine can't be blamed for "provoking" Russia into invading them.
Let's recap:
Ukraine: We want to join NATO because of the possibility of Russian aggression.
Russia: *Invades*
Ukraine: See? This is exactly why we wanted to join a defensive alliance to protect us from this very thing.
And here you are blaming the victim. "Well, Ukraine knew what would happen but did it anyway." "Well, Mary knew that by talking to police about how her husband abuses her, her husband would probably beat her, but she did it anyway."
It's pretty disgusting actually.
Unfortunate that you consider the concerns of one party as illegitimate.They don't have legitimate "concerns". They have warmongering ambitions. I'm sorry that you seem hellbend on not understanding the difference.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation and it can make its own decisions. .. It is Ukraine's own sovereign decision.
Why don't you care about Ukraine's concerns, for that matter?
They should have elected some moderate wise person, not Don Quixotes like Poroshenko and Zelensky.The problems started when the people of Ukraine ousted the Russian puppet regime and democratically elected its own leaders instead of Russian muppets.
Sovereign decision, like you said. Decisions have consequences.Serious question: why, do you think, does Ukraine want to join NATO so desperately?
Who else can I blame for 'provoking' Russia?Ukraine can't be blamed for "provoking" Russia into invading them.
Ukraine: We want to join NATO because of the possibility of Russian aggression.
Russia: *Invades*
Ukraine: See? This is exactly why we wanted to join a defensive alliance to protect us from this very thing.
It's pretty disgusting actually.
Russia.Who else can I blame for 'provoking' Russia?
I always have to wonder whether people who say this utter nonsense expect anyone to believe it.Ukraine 1: We do not want Yanukowych, but here is a person, Tanukowych, who can live with you. We are not joining NATO.
Russia: That seems to be OK.
Ukraine 2: We do not want Yanukowych, we want Ranukowych. We will join NATO.
Ranukowych: Don't worry. I will take care of it. I have talked to my friend, Joe Biden. 'Army, Language, Religion' slogan attributed to Ranukowych. (Petro Poroshenko - Wikipedia)
Russia: OK, you will soon see the results.
Joe Biden: I expanded NATO. I am ruling not just USA but the whole world.
No, it's disgusting how you like to blame victims. No one used Ukraine. Ukraine wanted to join because of exactly what happened. NATO doesn't have a war with Russia. They have an alliance in case of Russian aggression. You know, the Russian aggression we're seeing right now. It's very easy to see unless you close your eyes to reality and only accept Putin's propaganda.Yeah, it is disgusting how NATO used Ukraine to fight its war with Russia.
The whole of Putinist Russia, representing the ruling kleptocrats and the broad, largely little educated mass of the populace, live in a world of mythology. In Kremlin mythology, Russia is the saviour of the world. Even the medievally brutal and pointless Afghan war is portrayed as both a humanitarian mission and, in some strange sense, a victory. In Putin myth land, the KGB was a force for good, Stalin was basically a great guy and Russia is always and ever only the victim.Set aside the humor of Putin walking in to Darth Vader's Imperial March.
Consider the short man (a little Napoleon) entering the huge fabulously
gilded palace. His right arm largely immobile, while the left one swings.
Watch all the froufrou uniformed guards as all in unison, they so formally
turn their uplifted gaze slowly & synchronously in Putin's direction as he
passes, making his way toward into the palace.
It all suggests that if Napoleon, Caligula, Hitler, & Stalin mixed their DNA
together to create an unholy spawn, it would be Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
Unfortunate that you consider the concerns of one party as illegitimate.
If you cared about Ukraine, you would also care about Ukraine's concerns, but apparently you do not.Ukraine's sovereign decision has made it suffer a two and a half year war which shows no sign of ending.
I care about Ukraine, that is why I say that Ukraine should engage is peace-talks rather than trying to defeat Russia.