How on earth can the Qur'an be considered the perfect book?

[use_your_brain]

I have had plenty enough of the Qur'an, thanks. I think most anyone has. I have no desire to encourage the very common mistake of treating scripture as something to be worshipped.

What do you say? Bonus points if you can do it without quoting from the Qur'an.

mistake? interesting, which passage is it?

 

[use_your_brain]

What tomb are you are talking about use_your_brain? Where?

If you are going to say it is in Mecca, then I am going to have to assume you're sprouting propaganda.

There have been no evidence that any tomb has ever been associated with Adam.

Adam's tomb. It is not in Mecca.

 

[Shad]

Big deal! Do you think that Almighty God doesn't know why people play with words, and play the 'superior scientist' card?

He knows all .. nothing is hidden from Him.

Non-argument. Invoking God is not an argument. Beside I talked to God personally and God said you are wrong. See how your horrible argument can be used by anyone?

 

[Shad]

the grave or tomb of Adam is the evidence that Adam did exist.

No such grave exists.

 

[FearGod]

Problem is smoke's solids change depending on the current environment it is from. If there are no solids, as per early cosmology, then your verse is wrong as it is no longer smoke. In the end you agreed that the Quran is wrong. You did so since you are ignorant of what smoke is, what it contains, why it contains such materials, gases, liquids and cosmology.

I said you made a great point.

 

[FearGod]

Before I start with Satan disobeying God by not bowing down to Adam, and I will do you one better than just going one by one, by starting with this.

To me, all scriptures - not just the Qur'an - comprised of allegories, parables, myths, folklore, etc, more so than they contain historical facts.

And allegories, parables, myths and folktales were never mean to be taken literally or historically or scientifically to be true.

Historically, Adam don't exist. Adam is an invention made by ancient Israelite during the 1st millennium BCE, said to be the first man and an ancestor to all. Jews, Christians and Muslims accept Adam to be real, but he doesn't exist: Adam is a myth.

Satan is also a myth.

1. Satan is an angel according to the Jews, and still is an angel, doing god's bidding.
2. Christians believe him to be a demon (the Devil) and an ex-angel (fallen angel).
3. Muslims believe that Satan, or Iblis, was never an angel, but a jinn, and all jinns were creatures made of smokeless fire.

Regardless of whether Satan is an angel, demon/fallen angel or jinn, none of them exist, except in books of myths.

Jinns are mythological beings that were invented by pagan Arabs before Muhammad. They (jinns) don't exist, so that mean Satan/Iblis don't exist.

And if Satan don't really exist and if Adam don't exist, except in religious myths, then why should I believe that the story of Satan refusing to obey God, by not bowing down to Adam (Qur'an 5:32).

Second, both the Tanakh and the Bible, don't have this episode of Satan refusing to prostrate before Adam. So where this story come from?

The episode of Adam and Satan come from a rabbi or sage, who invented the story of Satan refusing to obey God, by not bowing down to Adam, from the Midrash and Aggadah, rabbinical texts.

A translation to the Aggadah can be found in the Legends of the Jews, volume 1, chapter 2 (Adam), translated into English by Louis Ginzberg (1909); look up the chapter for the FALL OF SATAN.

Here, I will quote the relevant bit to you, after Adam won the contest of naming each kind of animals and birds, God demanded that all the angels to bow down to Adam:


The Qur'an version may not be exact copy of the the Aggadah version, the idea is still a borrowing from the rabbinic text.

Why would Muhammad used a source that come from a rabbi, not a prophet?

Thirdly, if I don't believe in the existence of jinns, why should I believe that angels are any more real?



So if angels are myths and don't exist, then Muhammad claiming that Gabriel had visited him, not real. And this make Muhammad claim to be questionable, if Gabriel don't exist.

By knocking down the existence of jinns and angels, everything else that I find questionable in the Qur'an, makes the whole Qur'an fall apart.

A great point indeed which is known to God already.

(16:24)
And when it is said to them, 'What has your Lord sent down?' they say, 'Fairy-tales of the ancients.'

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

And our lands is on water moving in the universe, do you believe it's possible,
looks mag

I want to tell you I am withdrawing from the dialogue means the deficit
The Escape
And now we are talking in this topic
And it provided you from the Koran
This is the verseWhere are the words moving --where????

He created the heavens and the earth in six days and His Throne was on the water to test you is best in deed While said you Envoys from after death? They who disbelieve that this only shown charm
This verse from Surah Hood
And the following errors
That God created the universe in six days
Strangely, however, in which
That God has his throne on the water
Do you believe in this myth ????
Read the well
Verse, in which
That God created the universe in six days
And he sat on his throne on the water ???
Do you think that God sits on the throne and on the water and you say animated universe
Funny and give an explanation

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

if they can't then stop comparing islam with other religions. I can prove that islam is correct.

If there is a comparison between Islam and other religions, Islam falls automaticallyDown with the Koran in the theory of the earth is flat
Hollow language of the Koran
And you do you explain these verses even laugh at the simple people that the Qur'an is a scientific book
If the Koran scientific book
So why did not you give wonderful Nzertm early in the spread of Islam ???When unable to answer simple questions of science say in the Quran and verses cosmic
All myths have no value and scientifically

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

When Muslims are unable to mental defense of their religion and their Prophet actions
And verses of the Koran are trying to mislead the people lies the scientific miracle ??
I think it's the biggest myth in the history of humanity

 

[FearGod]

I want to tell you I am withdrawing from the dialogue means the deficit
The Escape
And now we are talking in this topic
And it provided you from the Koran
This is the verseWhere are the words moving --where????

He created the heavens and the earth in six days and His Throne was on the water to test you is best in deed While said you Envoys from after death? They who disbelieve that this only shown charm
This verse from Surah Hood
And the following errors
That God created the universe in six days
Strangely, however, in which
That God has his throne on the water
Do you believe in this myth ????
Read the well
Verse, in which
That God created the universe in six days
And he sat on his throne on the water ???
Do you think that God sits on the throne and on the water and you say animated universe
Funny and give an explanation

So what if his throne on the water, 75% of our earth consist of water.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

When science discovers a certain phenomenon
The Muslim scholars stand and say this is written in the Koran
Well if it was written in the Koran, why they did not publish news of this phenomenon by scientists ???
For Verse split came close at the Moon
Here verse talks about the approaching time the day of resurrection and the account and split the moon
But is the resurrection occurred ????
Koran lie in this ??
That is why they said that Muhammad and his companions saw the moon split into two halves ???
But the strange old world has not seen this strange phenomenon ??

Lie in a lie
But when the scientists said there was a strange phenomenon in the moon is the presence of several kilometers along the gully
Farah salmon and they said it is written in the Koran
And spread lies about this phenomenonIf the split occurred to the moon as Muslims say that the old world will write about it
The Romanian civilization in its greatness
Have there been this phenomenon?
I told you it was a lie
Because the splitting of the moon means that the time close
Ie the Day of Resurrection and Account
Thus, the oldest example of the fact lie in the provision of verses of the Koran until mislead peopleThis style is just so people do not know the truth about Islam
The reality of terrorism
If all the science in the Quran
But when I know his teachings terrorist, I do not admit it does so also God

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Where is the throne of God ???
Is he in heaven or on earth ??
Read the verse well in Arabic

وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَق السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ وَكَانَ عَرْشُهُ عَلَى الْمَاء

It was his throne on the water
وَكَانَ عَرْشُهُ عَلَى الْمَاء
Do you believe in these words, the words of the Koran that he ?? ???
The throne of God on the water ????
My friend Ataatkelm verse is about the size of the ground and do not speak about the amount of water ???
Only the big lie
That God is on his throne those waters?
I think that on one of his throne States aircraft carriers ????

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

So what if his throne on the water, 75% of our earth consist of water.

OK
Where is the throne of God ??
Can you put a sign on his whereabouts on those waters ???
Is God a house in the Kaaba
And his throne on those waters ???

 

[morphesium]

The same can be said about science education ie. They are taught that way from a very young age ( just 6 or 7 years old)

at age six or seven, the mathematics is just about counting numbers and about simple addition or subtraction and things like that. Do you disagree with these? The science is about very basic things in nature. "Sun rises in the east", about the various kind of animals and plants etc. Is there anything to disagree with?

Now, as the kid grows up (hoping that he is a student of science), if he happens to understand that there is some error or mistake in what he learns, he questions them. He, or someone else would find a solution for this which eventually lead to more understanding of the subject and would make better predictions etc. This is how science grows - it is never stagnates. Only a free man/woman can question ones own beliefs or question things that they formerly accepted as truth.

This is never possible with religion. You cannot correct a single mistake in quran (among the tons of it) and can never question your religion. Religious people don't have a free mind. They simply accept their religion as the ultimate truth.

It is your lack of understanding that you consider religion to be "a social subject" rather than a Divine one..

If you can put your leg in other people shoes (a christian's, a jew's, a hindo's etc) , just think why they agree and accept their religion, you will understand that it is for the same reasons that you too accept your religion, that there is no Divinity in your religion.

Why do you want to believe if someone said " see, I had God's revelation; You should do so and so other wise you will go to hell" or if some books contain sentences like these " a two month old kid started to talk like an adult" or something similar. No tho month old kid ever spoke to you directly. If god wished, he could have done that.

..if I'm brainwashed, then so be it.

No, Never let your religion/ advertisements, politics etc brainwash you.

I do not like ignorance and agression, but neither am I a pacifist. However, "there is no force in religion" as far as I'm concerned, and so I'll stick to what I consider to be the truth.

I hope you will find the real truth eventually.

 

[MARCELLO]

Adam's tomb. It is not in Mecca.

Is there any tomb of Adam? Is this a joke?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

at age six or seven, the mathematics is just about counting numbers and about simple addition or subtraction and things like that. Do you disagree with these? The science is about very basic things in nature. "Sun rises in the east", about the various kind of animals and plants etc. Is there anything to disagree with?

Now, as the kid grows up (hoping that he is a student of science), if he happens to understand that there is some error or mistake in what he learns, he questions them. He, or someone else would find a solution for this which eventually lead to more understanding of the subject and would make better predictions etc. This is how science grows - it is never stagnates. Only a free man/woman can question ones own beliefs or question things that they formerly accepted as truth.

This is never possible with religion. You cannot correct a single mistake in quran (among the tons of it) and can never question your religion. Religious people don't have a free mind. They simply accept their religion as the ultimate truth.

Yes Muslims reject all the facts
That is the duty of humanity to educate them and also reveal those facts to them
Even the world knows the nature of this debt, which makes the human brain washed

 

[FearGod]

OK
Where is the throne of God ??
Can you put a sign on his whereabouts on those waters ???
Is God a house in the Kaaba
And his throne on those waters ???

 

[FearGod]

Yes Muslims reject all the facts
That is the duty of humanity to educate them and also reveal those facts to them
Even the world knows the nature of this debt, which makes the human brain washed

Lol, what makes me laugh that you accept Jesus as the son and the father and then you ask
the world to educate the Muslims, that's hilarious.

 

[use_your_brain]

OK
Where is the throne of God ??
Can you put a sign on his whereabouts on those waters ???
Is God a house in the Kaaba
And his throne on those waters ???

His throne is not in this world, it is on the water out there, non earthly water. The levels of our universe consist of some stages:
1. world/earth.
2. first heaven/sky, the second heaven until 7th heaven.
3. sidratul muntaha.
4. water.
5. Arshy/throne.

like that. His throne is on the water.

Prophet said: …The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea/water, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next… [Sunan of Abu Dawood, Hadith no. 2205]

 

[morphesium]

Adam's tomb. It is not in Mecca.

but where??????????????????????