How on earth can the Qur'an be considered the perfect book?

[gnostic]

Adam's tomb. It is not in Mecca.

Then where is it?

 

[FearGod]

Lol how do you have this special knowledge? So they're on God pacific time? Give me a break you don't know they have there own time system or if God needs time--after all God made time according to you so why does he have his own time. ALso if he has his own time then there must have been a beginning where there was no time.

His throne isn't him, his universe isn't him, both have their own system for time.
If you don't get it, then i'm sorry, i can't help.

 

[FearGod]

So you admit you don't actually know anything about God or his mind or desires. I mean you can't even answer this basic question so why do you think Islam is valid?

Did i claim that i have all the answers?

 

[use_your_brain]

Then where is it?

The Jews believe his tomb is in the Cave of Patriarchs, in Hebron.

 

[FearGod]

Its called a translation LOL, ever heard of it? Do you need to know Greek in order to read and discuss the illiad? No, because it got translated. I'm not going to deal with whatever arbitrary interpretation or personal definition you come up with. Im going with a translated copy. Also you were just debating it; you just made this lame point now because you know you just lost the previous point and you needed something to fall back on that I supposedly can't question or debate. Give me a break dude. be real, get serious.

I know what the verse means, you don't want to believe me then that returns to you,
I don't have anything more to offer, good luck

 

[gnostic]

According to the Judaism faith, Adam was buried in The Cave of the Patriarchs, Hebron.

No, the cave was a tomb for Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah, not for Adam.

According to Genesis, Abraham bought it from a Hittite. Originally it was a tomb meant for Sarah.

Judaism never said it was for Adam.

 

[use_your_brain]

No, the cave was a tomb for Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah, not for Adam.

According to Genesis, Abraham bought it from a Hittite. Originally it was a tomb meant for Sarah.

Judaism never said it was for Adam.

Then the Wikipedia lies.

 

[gnostic]

Then the Wikipedia lies.

Ah, I see what you mean, now.

I haven't read Kabbalah literature, so I don't know much about this group.

The Kabbalah were a different and distinctive sect of Judaism, which most Jews don't follow, and they don't take their traditions and texts seriously, except for those who followed the Kabbalah.

The Kabbalah to the Jews are like the Ahmadiyya to the Sunni. Just as the Sunni don't follow the texts and teaching of Ahmadi, the majority of Jews don't follow the teaching and texts of Kabbalah.

You know how Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the primary source for Islam, and if traditions including the Hadiths differ from the Qur'an, then they should follow the Qur'an, not the traditions or hadiths.

Well the same is true for Jews. Highest priority is given to the Tanakh, particularly the Torah, so any tradition that differ to the Tanakh, then the Tanakh should be followed, not the traditions.

Similarly, Christians give the highest prior to teaching in the gospels over epistles and over church traditions.

Do you understand what I am saying about scriptures versus traditions?

 

[use_your_brain]

Ah, I see what you mean, now.

I haven't read Kabbalah literature, so I don't know much about this group.

The Kabbalah were a different and distinctive sect of Judaism, which most Jews don't follow, and they don't take their traditions and texts seriously, except for those who followed the Kabbalah.

The Kabbalah to the Jews are like the Ahmadiyya to the Sunni. Just as the Sunni don't follow the texts and teaching of Ahmadi, the majority of Jews don't follow the teaching and texts of Kabbalah.

You know how Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the primary source for Islam, and if traditions including the Hadiths differ from the Qur'an, then they should follow the Qur'an, not the traditions or hadiths.

Well the same is true for Jews. Highest priority is given to the Tanakh, particularly the Torah, so any tradition that differ to the Tanakh, then the Tanakh should be followed, not the traditions.

Similarly, Christians give the highest prior to teaching in the gospels over epistles and over church traditions.

Do you understand what I am saying about scriptures versus traditions?

go ahead.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..if he happens to understand that there is some error or mistake in what he learns, he questions them.

The same goes for religion .. some people, of course, don't question things and therefore "believe" what they were taught .. right or wrong..

This is never possible with religion. You cannot correct a single mistake in quran (among the tons of it) and can never question your religion. Religious people don't have a free mind. They simply accept their religion as the ultimate truth.

Don't be silly .. do you think that I have always had the same beliefs? I have not! I have been a Muslim for about 40 years now (am currently 63) . Do you think that I hold the same views now as I did back then? Absolutely not! Books are one source of knowledge .. living our lives is another.

If you can put your leg in other people shoes (a christian's, a jew's, a hindo's etc) , just think why they agree and accept their religion, you will understand that it is for the same reasons that you too accept your religion, that there is no Divinity in your religion.

God knows best why people are (or claim to be) this religion or that. Divinity is about the Divine (Almighty God), and NOT religion/denomination!

No, Never let your religion/ advertisements, politics etc brainwash you.

I quite agree .. and yet many people will claim that I am, and that I have no good reason for my belief other than some arbitary choice

I hope you will find the real truth eventually.

You needn't worry about that. My journey in this life has not derailed me from the truth I discovered as yet

 

[morphesium]

The same goes for religion .. some people, of course, don't question things and therefore "believe" what they were taught .. right or wrong..

Religion has a set of doctrines - relating to its origin, its purpose etc. These doctrines may or may not have a scientific validity. A religions holy book says the first man came into existence 2000 years before Christ but science says the first humans originated some 200, 000 years ago. To change is to question the very crux of their religion.
Of course Christianity did finally agree that it is the earth that goes round the sun (at this age of satellites and telescopes) but it took a long time for them to finally accept this (about 250 years or so).

Don't be silly .. do you think that I have always had the same beliefs? I have not! I have been a Muslim for about 40 years now (am currently 63) . Do you think that I hold the same views now as I did back then? Absolutely not! Books are one source of knowledge .. living our lives is another.

So you haven't been a Muslim for the first 23 years of your life. why did you change your religion? Is there any merits in Islam when compared to your old religion. what are/was they?

Did you ever find an error in Quran?

God knows best why people are (or claim to be) this religion or that. Divinity is about the Divine (Almighty God), and NOT religion/denomination!

God has nothing to do with any religion. These are all man-made. If God wished that one should follow a particular religion, we would all be born with such an innate knowledge and there won't be a fight over this. There were many religions in the past that are now part of history, or didn't make into "history". Our religion and these religious "gods" too will not survive if it has no followers.

You needn't worry about that. My journey in this life has not derailed me from the truth I discovered as yet

Keep searching for the truth.

Best wishes.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
The inner evidence of Quran the Recitation also speaks loudly that it is authored by G-d and none else

If this was true, why did he copy Israelite mythology that never took place?

Please give evidence that Muhammad copied. Will you? Please
Regards

 

[outhouse]

paarsurrey said: ↑
The inner evidence of Quran the Recitation also speaks loudly that it is authored by G-d and none else

Please give evidence that Muhammad copied. Will you? Please
Regards

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_mythology

Islam incorporates many Biblical events and heroes into its own mythology. Stories about Musa (Moses)[1] and Ibrahim (Abraham)[2] form parts of Islam's scriptures

 

[muhammad_isa]

A religions holy book says the first man came into existence 2000 years before Christ but science says the first humans originated some 200, 000 years ago. To change is to question the very crux of their religion.

That's an exaggeration .. however, your main point about the age of the universe is explained by the fact that 'a day' in the 21st century as we perceive/measure is NOT equivalent to when the universe was created. Our space-time continuum is not really a newtonian model, which our basic definition of time relates to.
eg. time is complex and is not really linear (as we assume for basic calculations)

God has nothing to do with any religion. These are all man-made. If God wished that one should follow a particular religion, we would all be born with such an innate knowledge and there won't be a fight over this.

That might be your assumption/belief, but it's not mine..

 

[Shad]

That's an exaggeration .. however, your main point about the age of the universe is explained by the fact that 'a day' in the 21st century as we perceive/measure is NOT equivalent to when the universe was created. Our space-time continuum is not really a newtonian model, which our basic definition of time relates to.
eg. time is complex and is not really linear (as we assume for basic calculations)

A day is not a 21st century construct. Your argument ignores the mechanics behind the idea of a day. The concept of a day existed for centuries before Islam. The concept of years existed before Islam. God could of easily said exactly how many years or days specific events took to complete but didn't. Days and years spans are directly related to an Earth context which is blatantly obvious. Either Allah is incompetent or a fiction to cover for a human's ignorance. Besides a day is not based on Newtonian physics it is based on the light/dark cycle due to the Sun and rotation of the Earth. All of which existed millennia before Newton was born. All you will end up doing is filling in the blanks left in your scripture with information provided by humans in an ad hoc manner to maintain your faith.

Quantum reality is made of stuff. Wait for someone to discover what this stuff is. Rename stuff to the new term and claim you were never wrong. Ad hoc rationalization. Ad hoc rescue. Where is my Nobel prize?

 

[muhammad_isa]

God could of easily said exactly how many years or days specific events took to complete but didn't.

Oh what a shame .. no matter what God says, you will always find something to prove that He's not such a clever scientist or linguist as yourself..

Needless to say, I don't agree with you .. I've seen this debate happen between atheists and Jews also .. if you want to think that it really shows that Scripture is proved wrong, then be my guest

..I do not intend to go into reams of arabic grammar or explaining verses/hadiths .. you think you know best .. fine

 

[Useless2015]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_mythology

Islam incorporates many Biblical events and heroes into its own mythology. Stories about Musa (Moses)[1] and Ibrahim (Abraham)[2] form parts of Islam's scriptures

Nice one Sherlock! It says in the Quran that these stories were in the Bible. So what exactly is your point? If its to discredit Muhammed s.a.w than you are failing miserably(as always).

 

[Shad]

Oh what a shame .. no matter what God says, you will always find something to prove that He's not such a clever scientist or linguist as yourself..

No, it is the ad hoc rescues you use to maintain your flawed claims is what I reject. You have yet to establish that your book is from God. You are using your presupposition as if it was a priori I must accept and am required to. It isn't

Needless to say, I don't agree with you .. I've seen this debate happen between atheists and Jews also .. if you want to think that it really shows that Scripture is proved wrong, then be my guest

Already have. I pointed out that a human would have no idea how long specific events took so hid these claims in ambiguity and vagueness due to ignorance. A God could provide exact details but failed to do so. It is reasonable to conclude that a human in his/her ignorance created your text not an all knowing God.

..I do not intend to go into reams of arabic grammar or explaining verses/hadiths .. you think you know best .. fine

Go for it. If you are like any of the typical Muslims here you know very little about ahadith except common memes. Speaking of grammar hadiths is not the plural form of hadtih, it is ahadith. Maybe you should grasp your own grammar before bring it up using an example of your poor grammar.

 

[Shad]

Nice one Sherlock! It says in the Quran that these stories were in the Bible. So what exactly is your point? If its to discredit Muhammed s.a.w than you are failing miserably(as always).

No it shows that many parts of the Quran existed in some form for centuries before Islam was formed. No God is required to repeat stories already known in the area for centuries.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You have yet to establish that your book is from God..

No .. it's not for me to do so .. I have nothing to prove, and neither does Almighty God .. He knows who is worthy of His guidance.

Hadith: "If Allah loves somebody, He causes them to comprehend relgion"